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Pictures of bulkhead cracks

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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:22 pm Post subject: Pictures of bulkhead cracks

Thanks all for the insight.  The bottom line is that I am a little pissed 

off that the guy with the English accent was so quick to determine a fix 

without knowing the extent of the cracks or how I felt about it. With 

something like this, its about the customer's piece of mind, and this is one 

case where the clients feelings are right.



Brand new plane, hours and hours of work, my family's safety, the longevity 

of the aircraft, possibly someone else's safety, the effort to pull it apart 

to remove the part....EEEEEEE! sounds like Charlie Brown.



I think John's, .02 cents is right.  I guess I will have to send the parts 

back with the form saying "defective".  I'll pay the freight back, which I 

shouldn't have to.  If they charge me for freight to send the new parts, 

then it is letter time.  It should be letter time anyway and perhaps it will 

be since this will delay my building for a week and a half or more. What 

else will I do.  This is bad customer relation from a very innocent thing 

with potentially huge implications.

John G

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bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:49 pm Post subject: Pictures of bulkhead cracks

My .02, call them and tell Van's that you are returning the parts, and have

them send a new one.  They will send it to you, and work on something else

until it arrives.  I have learned that Van's is very good about replacing

parts, and they are just as interested as you are in getting a good product

out the door.  



Jump ahead in the plans until the replacement part arrives.  Or deburr

something.  



Bob K

40125 Top forward fuselage skin



--

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:24 am Post subject: Pictures of bulkhead cracks

Many people will know, if anyone is/was whiny about anything that

slows down their building, it's me.  But, after making it through

99.9% of all the rivets I have to agree with Bob for the most part.

In my experience, they'll replace parts that are bad, and the ones

you mess up you can buy fairly cheap.  Don't get too bent out of

shape about shipping, although for things like this they should

pay it.  I spent literally hundreds of extra dollars on fittings,

and hardware to cover some of the shortages and ensure I wouldn't

get slowed down, and I spent a few hundred on extra shipping by

not knowing what I was short on as I built and having many small

hardware orders.  Trust me, if you can build the whole RV-10

without $500-1,000 in incidental shipping and misc. hardware,

you're doing pretty good.  I'm sure I'm on the high end of that,

but now I have a small pile of hardware I need to get rid of. 



As for what to do, I was stuck like you at a couple times.  My advice

is like Bob's, to deburr stuff.  When I got totally stuck, I grabbed

a pile of aluminum, cut out all sorts of pieces and deburred them.

It was actually nice at times, as it made future parts of the build

more bearable.



I don't think that your claims and worries don't have merit, because

generally I agree.  I just want to reassure you that you'll make

it though.  When you're building the tail, you have *no idea* how

many huge incidentals that aren't included in the kit that you'll

face.   That's my biggest reason for my common advice for builders

to truly evaluate their decision to build before they start.  If you're

the kind of person who winces when the kit is going to cost $1,000

more than you thought, it's going to be hard to bear.  I've had

a string of constant $100 and $1000 things that came along, but

to get the result you want, sometimes that's what it takes.  Most

of this stuff starts after the fuselage kit is completed.



So bear with the build and have as much fun as possible.  When you

think something isn't right, just push them for a fix.  Once, when

I had a part (throttle cable) that I knew wasn't appropriately

right, I just shipped it back with a note and ordered a new one.

Eventually the credit appeared.  So, they will probably do good for

their builders in most cases.  I do agree though that cracked

parts should be addressed when they're found.



Good luck and keep building.



Tim Olson -- RV-10  #40170

DO NOT ARCHIVE

bob.kaufmann wrote:

[quote] 

 

 My .02, call them and tell Van's that you are returning the parts, and have

 them send a new one.  They will send it to you, and work on something else

 until it arrives.  I have learned that Van's is very good about replacing

 parts, and they are just as interested as you are in getting a good product

 out the door.  

 

 Jump ahead in the plans until the replacement part arrives.  Or deburr

 something.  

 

 Bob K

 40125 Top forward fuselage skin

 

 --

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:05 am Post subject: Pictures of bulkhead cracks

Could not agree more. Just don't discard the pile; ongoing maintenance 

always requires occasional replacement of hardware. Besides you may build 

again. After finishing the Glastar, I saw the 10 at OSH and decided I needed 

a four place aircraft to replace the TC177RG.



You did not mention the list of things purchased but not used either due to 

fit, style or function. I still have a power diode left from the first 

purchase of three when building the Glastar. Still have an extra starter 

relay,extra voltage regulator, extra circuit breakers. etc

---

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:45 am Post subject: Pictures of bulkhead cracks

I've got extra wire, a couple various aux. battery relays that I tried,

a pretty good pile of blue AN hardware that I bought while trying to

cover for shortages and trying to figure out a better fuel valve

install, pounds and pounds of extra bolts and screws, dozens of extra

nutplates bought because of shortages, hundreds of pop-style rivets

bought because of shortages, a few pounds of AN426/AN470 rivets bought

so I'd never run short again, A good sized roll of E-Glass used for

the windshield fairing, extra firewall material, a brand new pair of

NACA vents that I thought I'd use to try to come up with something

better for the front seat air, the old original fuel valve, and a

bunch more that I can't even remember right now.  Some of it I'll

get rid of over time, and I'll probably list on my site what I'd

like to sell off.  Some of it as you mention will be kept for

future maintenance.  Not much of it would I regret, because I was

saved numerous times from stopping work due to shortages.  In fact,

I didn't go far enough.   I found last week that I was shorted

on 2 AN310-3 castle nuts for the rudder cables...so today I have

*gasp* temporary nuts in place to hold the cables tightly.   I now

have a HUGE order of 12 nuts coming from Aircraft Spruce.  In the

final 2 months of building, I probably had 10-15 small parts orders

from Wicks and ACS.  At least from ACS you pay shipping only, and

no handling charge...but it makes those 12 nuts nearly double in

price.   Buying a minimum of 2 spares of every nut/bolt/washer/screw/

electrical terminal/nutplate/AN Fitting ...    will probably save

you many times over, but, you'll still maybe never have everything

you need on hand.  Note that in many cases above, it's not practical

to buy only a couple.  In the case of screws, your best bet is

often to buy 100 quantities of common screws from Aircraft Spruce.

Then you get a 20% discount on them, and have a good pile on hand.

Just this week I was short on AN509-8R10's and almost panicked that

I was out of them.  But, much to my surprise, I had ordered 100

of them from Aircraft Spruce that had just showed up 2 days earlier

and I hadn't put in their trays yet.  That's a pretty good save when

you're only <10 days from flying.



Tim

Tim Olson -- RV-10  #40170

DO NOT ARCHIVE

David McNeill wrote:

[quote] 

 

 Could not agree more. Just don't discard the pile; ongoing maintenance 

 always requires occasional replacement of hardware. Besides you may 

 build again. After finishing the Glastar, I saw the 10 at OSH and 

 decided I needed a four place aircraft to replace the TC177RG.

 

 You did not mention the list of things purchased but not used either due 

 to fit, style or function. I still have a power diode left from the 

 first purchase of three when building the Glastar. Still have an extra 

 starter relay,extra voltage regulator, extra circuit breakers. etc

 ---

Jerry Grimmonpre'

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 144
Location: Huntley, Illinois 60142

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:11 am Post subject: Pictures of bulkhead cracks

Hi All ...

I'm not in the fray of building the 10, I'm an 8A builder but I can see the 

same shortages you all report.  When everything is weighed out do you think 

it would be better for Van's to draw-up a list of all the fasteners needed 

to build their airplanes, publish it and make the paper list a part of the 

build shipment.  This way you could shop your list at AS or Wicks and never 

have another worry about ... inventory shortages.  Van's could wash their 

hands of counting rivets, sending them out in tiny envelopes and generally 

wasting their employees time on stuff there is probably little return on 

investment.  There are probably other spin-off benefits collective minds can 

"see" such as the short length rivet problem being resolved by the merchant 

in a more proactive manner.  Maybe the competition would foster better 

service.  Now, it becomes a question of ... could Van's  create an accurate 

initial list of fasteners?

Food for thought ...

Jerry Grimmonpre'

RV8A

DO NOT ARCHIVE



---

n8vim(at)arrl.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:16 am Post subject: Pictures of bulkhead cracks

>there is probably little return on investment.



That's what the handling charge is for. I'm sure they at least break 

even. Customer relations is a hard thing to get right and by providing a 

"one-stop shop" for common hardware items the customer is that much happier.



It does help that being a new builder that at least *most* of the 

hardware is included, at least enough to build to the plans; After that, 

it is up to you to decide what extras you want 



-Jim 40384



Jerry Grimmonpre wrote:



[quote] 



 Hi All ...

 I'm not in the fray of building the 10, I'm an 8A builder but I can 

 see the same shortages you all report.  When everything is weighed out 

 do you think it would be better for Van's to draw-up a list of all the 

 fasteners needed to build their airplanes, publish it and make the 

 paper list a part of the build shipment.  This way you could shop your 

 list at AS or Wicks and never have another worry about ... inventory 

 shortages.  Van's could wash their hands of counting rivets, sending 

 them out in tiny envelopes and generally wasting their employees time 

 on stuff there is probably little return on investment.  There are 

 probably other spin-off benefits collective minds can "see" such as 

 the short length rivet problem being resolved by the merchant in a 

 more proactive manner.  Maybe the competition would foster better 

 service.  Now, it becomes a question of ... could Van's  create an 

 accurate initial list of fasteners?

 Food for thought ...

 Jerry Grimmonpre'

 RV8A

 DO NOT ARCHIVE



 ---

VHMUM(at)bigpond.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:49 am Post subject: Pictures of bulkhead cracks

Vans just sent me a new gear leg as the R one was  faulty.....Cost them $300 for part  and $200 for freight downunder........I cant complain.

  

 Chris

  

  

 ---

acs(at)acspropeller.com.a
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: Pictures of bulkhead cracks

Chris,  

What was wrong with the leg?  

   

John 40315  

     

   

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris , Susie Darcy

 Sent: Wednesday, 8 February 2006 5:47 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Pictures of bulkhead cracks  

  

     

Vans just sent me a new gear leg as the R one was faulty.....Cost[b] them[/b] $300 for part and $200 for freight downunder........I cant complain.  

    

   

    

Chris

zackrv8

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 133

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: Pictures of bulkhead cracks

After reading about John G's bulkhead cracks, I checked mine over.  I guess I got some of the parts that had stress cracks from hydro-forming the bulkhead and you can clearly see where Vans' filed them out.  



  I'm not too worried about it because I have plenty of flange leftover.  It seems that Vans fix to this problem will be to shorten the flange on subsequent bulkheads.



Zack

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