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aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne
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 Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:55 am Post subject: Log book entries |
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Hi Brett et al-
This is one of the reasons I love this list. Despite all the times that
one person's diction irritates another, usually inadvertently, and all the
mud slinging that ensues, some real nuggets come out of it all. I was one
of those that thought AD's don't apply to experimentals. Wow. I'm glad I
learned the truth of the matter. It was certainly worth the effort of
wading through all the chaff to get the kernels.
Some general points- Anyone can work on any airplane. Yes, Virginia, you
can work on a 747. Yes, there are technicalities, but the underlying
principal is that all the work performed is focused / distilled to the
return to service sign-off. It is this sign-off that must be made by a
person with the appropriate credentials. Consider the case of museum
aircraft that are maintained by a force of volunteers. Precious few of
them have any credentials at all. But their IA does, and he does the
sign-off after supervising / inspecting the work.
At OSH I picked up a bound document from the FAA called "AMATEUR BUILT
AIRCRAFT REFERENCE MATERIAL". It contains a slew of AC's relating to OBAM
aircraft. AC39-7C, paragraph 8 explicitly states that AD's apply to us.
Next, right at the very begining, part 43 itself says that it doesn't apply
to experimentals. However, part 91 applies to all civil aircraft, and part
91 refers back to specific sections of part 43, so those explicit sections
do apply to us. 91.405 and 91.407 specify the work to be done and that the
records be made, and refer back to 43.7, 43.9, and 43.11 to state who can
do the sign-offs, what form they must take, and their disposition.
I suspect that should one run afoul of officialdom, 43.12 and 91.13 would
also be invoked...
Special thanks to Das Fed-
glen matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
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rickpegser(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: Log book entries |
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hi guys
just got back from the dreaded fsdo today. I had to retake my i/a exam had allowed it to expire while overseas. I passed again but the exam is a bitch and the new computer system had problems. i talked to them about the exec 90 problem again and amateur built aircraft logs in general. The consensus was that 90% of them have major problems. the conversation include three asi's, a Dom and two i/a's. Without a legal decision from the feds the final outcome was that all entries shall include four "w" 's What when how and who.
typical entry
what
changed oil and filter
when
tach/hobbs time and date
how
using aeroshell 15-50 8 qts filter# ?????
who
joe blow repairman # xxxxxxxxx
and yes ad's do apply
Lets be honest if you are flying an airplane with a outstanding ad, you are stupid.
typical entry
what
complied with ad ??-??-??
how
as per paragraph XXX inspect/install kit/replaced . whatever
when
tach/hobbs time and date
who
joe blow repairman # xxxxxxxxx
next we went on to some of the tough ones, airworthiness limitation ie, time inspections and component replacement times. the exec 90 in particular.
service bulletins are optional as we all know, but the mandatory replacement times and inspection due to the fact that this is a helicopter are required. by the way you would be insane not to comply with this any way.
log entry
what and how
inspected aircraft per 100 hr requirements as per maintenance manual XXX revXXX date XXX replaced the following components per mm.
just need to add the when and the who.
the conversation drifted to prop strikes, major airframe repairs and unlogged incidents.
if a propeller is changed or overhauled then enter why. delamination erosion, cracking. else i will assume a prop strike. and require the requisite insp.
airframe repairs
what so i know where to look
when as required
why so i have some idea of the energy involved
unlogged incidents.
replaced main landing gear
why deformity due to hard landing, or due to bad intial installation.
rick m
glen matejcek <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> wrote:
[quote]--> RV-List message posted by: "glen matejcek"
Hi Brett et al-
This is one of the reasons I love this list. Despite all the times that
one person's diction irritates another, usually inadvertently, and all the
mud slinging that ensues, some real nuggets come out of it all. I was one
of those that thought AD's don't apply to experimentals. Wow. I'm glad I
learned the truth of the matter. It was certainly worth the effort of
wading through all the chaff to get the kernels.
Some general points- Anyone can work on any airplane. Yes, Virginia, you
can work on a 747. Yes, there are technicalities, but the underlying
principal is that all the work performed is focused / distilled to the
return to service sign-off. It is this sign-off that must be made by a
person with the appropriate credentials. Consider the case of museum
aircraft that are maintained by a force of volunteers. Precious few of
them have any credentials at all. But their IA does, and he does the
sign-off after supervising / inspecting the work.
At OSH I picked up a bound document from the FAA called "AMATEUR BUILT
AIRCRAFT REFERENCE MATERIAL". It contains a slew of AC's relating to OBAM
aircraft. AC39-7C, paragraph 8 explicitly states that AD's apply to us.
Next, right at the very begining, part 43 itself says that it doesn't apply
to experimentals. However, part 91 applies to all civil aircraft, and part
91 refers back to specific sections of part 43, so those Be a better friend, newshound, and [quote][b]
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1706
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:10 am Post subject: Log book entries |
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I guess you weren't aware that there are on-line IA renewal courses that
can be taken if you aren't at home when the local renewal courses happen.
I'd sure like to see guidance in an FAA publication calling for a "why"
for any repair. Only guidance I recall from ACs and FARs call for the 4
w's, period. I can't say in a lot of aircraft shopping that I have ever
seen a "why" in a logbook of a certified aircraft, whether it had gear
up, wing change, prop change, engine change, etc. I find the quickest
way to terminate discussions with Principal Maintenance Inspectors is to
ask them to help you find where is says you have to do whatever their
pronouncement of the day is. Either they are right and have the item at
their fingertips, or there is no basis. YMMV
RICHARD MILLER wrote:
| Quote: | hi guys
just got back from the dreaded fsdo today. I had to retake my
i/a exam had allowed it to expire while overseas. I passed again but
the exam is a bitch and the new computer system had problems. i talked
to them about the exec 90 problem again and amateur built aircraft
logs in general. The consensus was that 90% of them have major
problems. the conversation include three asi's, a Dom and two i/a's.
Without a legal decision from the feds the final outcome was that all
entries shall include four "w" 's What when how and who.
typical entry
what
changed oil and filter
when
tach/hobbs time and date
how
using aeroshell 15-50 8 qts filter# ?????
who
joe blow repairman # xxxxxxxxx
and yes ad's do apply
Lets be honest if you are flying an airplane with a outstanding ad,
you are stupid.
typical entry
what
complied with ad ??-??-??
how
as per paragraph XXX inspect/install kit/replaced . whatever
when
tach/hobbs time and date
who
joe blow repairman # xxxxxxxxx
next we went on to some of the tough ones, airworthiness limitation
ie, time inspections and component replacement times. the exec 90 in
particular.
service bulletins are optional as we all know, but the mandatory
replacement times and inspection due to the fact that this is a
helicopter are required. by the way you would be insane not to comply
with this any way.
log entry
what and how
inspected aircraft per 100 hr requirements as per maintenance manual
XXX revXXX date XXX replaced the following components per mm.
just need to add the when and the who.
the conversation drifted to prop strikes, major airframe repairs and
unlogged incidents.
if a propeller is changed or overhauled then enter why. delamination
erosion, cracking. else i will assume a prop strike. and require the
requisite insp.
airframe repairs
what so i know where to look
when as required
why so i have some idea of the energy involved
unlogged incidents.
replaced main landing gear
why deformity due to hard landing, or due to bad intial installation.
rick m
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:00 am Post subject: Log book entries |
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I have never found the FSDO to be dreaded but agree clearly with Kelly
that the Why? Has no place in a formal logbook. It is important to
answer fully and clearly the four W's but additional unnecessary
documentation services little purpose at maintaining a compliant and
safe aircraft.
23 years as a DPE, 20 years as a Chief Instructor, now an IA, and I
agree with Kelly secondly on how to handle the situation. Don't add it.
Ask them to help you find the "Written reference". Separately I could
tell stories (offline) of the advise Alan McArtor, the last Director
under President Reagan gave me and the lesson I learned on the process
of Congressionalizing a federal employee.
I have found the vast majority of FSDO personnel to be hardworking and
can be dealt with in a reasonable manner - they value their careers and
look forward to advancement and recognition. Once Kelly's style of
request for a reference for help went all the way to Washington DC legal
and took over a year. It had to do with "logging of glider tow time
used for pursuit of an additional rating". Some of you might remember
that case study.
Keep those logbooks concise, appropriate and compliant. Let me know if
you ever find a reference to add Why to the mix.
John Cox
--
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n395v
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:48 am Post subject: Re: Log book entries |
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This is paragraph 8 from the above referenced AC
8. APPLICABILITY OF AD's. Each AD contains an applicability statement specifying the
product (aircraft, aircraft engine, propeller, or appliance) to which it applies. Some aircraft
owners and operators mistakenly assume that AD's do not apply to aircraft with other than
standard airworthiness certificates, i.e., special airworthiness certificates in the restricted, limited,
or experimental category. Unless specifically stated, AD's apply to the make and model set forth
in the applicability statement regardless of the classification or category of the airworthiness
certificate issued for the aircraft. Type certificate and airworthiness certification information are
used to identify the product affected. Limitations may be placed on applicability by specifying
the serial number or number series to which the AD is applicable. When there is no reference to
serial numbers, all serial numbers are affected. The following are examples of AD applicability
statements:
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Milt |
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