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Elevator balance (retraction)

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coop85(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:46 pm Post subject: Elevator balance (retraction)

John,  

    Thanks for the tactful BS flag, having done some more research I should have (as usual) kept my mouth shut and keyboard silent.  I reread my statement and realized I was mixing some memories.  Nobody has had to melt lead into the RV-6, that was my Skybolt so I’m already not doing well (perhaps I can claim lead poisoning from the experience).  So I broke out my old RV-6 plans and it clearly states to trim the elevator “in trail” so the tail low part was right out.  I found no reference in my old Aero books so resorted to Google and came across a Tony Bingelis article which confirms 100% pure balanced, or perhaps slightly nose low (opposite of my memory) depending on the manufacture.  Had you not made the question I would have been permanently convinced I had the right answer and from a credible (but not sure which) source.  

   

So, lesson learned (again), memory is not 100% reliable and it’s best to double check info before touting some great idea that might negatively affect safety.  Reminds me of the unsubstantiated claim threads about FAR compliance – sorry.  

   

Also, the do not archive line is a great way to prevent bogus info from staying in the archives inducing further confusion.  

   

Sean – disregard my previous answer.  

   

Humbly double checking my elevators,  

Marcus  

   

--

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Sean Blair

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 39
Location: Colorado Springs

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject: Elevator balance (retraction)

Just to confuse things even more, I just spoke with Scott at Van's about this and he said it was normal and okay for the elevators to rest in the down position when unattached to the pushrod.  He said with the ten it's not a big deal for flutterring.

?????????????????????



Thanks for the replies everyone.



Sean B.

#40225

Do Not Archive



---- Marcus Cooper <coop85(at)bellsouth.net> wrote: 

[quote] John,

 

     Thanks for the tactful BS flag, having done some more research I should

 have (as usual) kept my mouth shut and keyboard silent.  I reread my

 statement and realized I was mixing some memories.  Nobody has had to melt

 lead into the RV-6, that was my Skybolt so I'm already not doing well

 (perhaps I can claim lead poisoning from the experience).  So I broke out my

 old RV-6 plans and it clearly states to trim the elevator "in trail" so the

 tail low part was right out.  I found no reference in my old Aero books so

 resorted to Google and came across a Tony Bingelis article which confirms

 100% pure balanced, or perhaps slightly nose low (opposite of my memory)

 depending on the manufacture.  Had you not made the question I would have

 been permanently convinced I had the right answer and from a credible (but

 not sure which) source.

 

  

 

 So, lesson learned (again), memory is not 100% reliable and it's best to

 double check info before touting some great idea that might negatively

 affect safety.  Reminds me of the unsubstantiated claim threads about FAR

 compliance - sorry.

 

  

 

 Also, the do not archive line is a great way to prevent bogus info from

 staying in the archives inducing further confusion.

 

  

 

 Sean - disregard my previous answer.

 

  

 

 Humbly double checking my elevators,

 

 Marcus

 

  

 

 --

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_________________
Sean S. Blair
#40225
N967SB (reserved)

acs(at)acspropeller.com.a
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:05 pm Post subject: Elevator balance (retraction)

Marcus, great retraction! Your post and John’s $00.02 have sent me scurrying for the text books yet again! This is what makes this list educational and interesting. If you’d never made the reply post in the first place I like many others may never have even pondered the “why is it so”? I’m surprised that Seans original post wasn’t swamped with technical answers, after all we’re all building an aircraft, an although we aren’t the design engineers for the aircraft (presumption), it might hurt not to know, that if your elevator is doing something different to everyone else then why?  

Don’t keep your keyboard silent!   

John #40315  

Do not archive  

     

   

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper

 Sent: Tuesday, 28 February 2006 7:46 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Elevator balance (retraction)  

  

   

John,  

    Thanks for the tactful BS flag, having done some more research I should have (as usual) kept my mouth shut and keyboard silent.  I reread my statement and realized I was mixing some memories.  Nobody has had to melt lead into the RV-6, that was my Skybolt so I’m already not doing well (perhaps I can claim lead poisoning from the experience).  So I broke out my old RV-6 plans and it clearly states to trim the elevator “in trail” so the tail low part was right out.  I found no reference in my old Aero books so resorted to Google and came across a Tony Bingelis article which confirms 100% pure balanced, or perhaps slightly nose low (opposite of my memory) depending on the manufacture.  Had you not made the question I would have been permanently convinced I had the right answer and from a credible (but not sure which) source.  

   

So, lesson learned (again), memory is not 100% reliable and it’s best to double check info before touting some great idea that might negatively affect safety.  Reminds me of the unsubstantiated claim threads about FAR compliance – sorry.  

   

Also, the do not archive line is a great way to prevent bogus info from staying in the archives inducing further confusion.  

   

Sean – disregard my previous answer.  

   

Humbly double checking my elevators,  

Marcus  

   

--

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johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:26 pm Post subject: Elevator balance (retraction)

Glad some more detail was added to the mix.  It is too bad that the issue of flutter and that of control balancing are not better handled for all of the RV-10 builders.  The standard mantra is that the factory says, “Balancing the controls is not necessary”.  For your education and the rest of the list, the process should be presented, discussed and then dismissed if not determined to be required on an individual basis.  It is not a bad thing to know and important if you go overboard with three final coats of color and a coat of clear to protect, multi-colored stripes.  I think they meant to say if you apply 4-10mil of topcoat, we hope you don’t need to balance your control surfaces.  Too much lead, too little lead, too much paint weight and the skill set becomes more valuable.  

   

I assume the rest of the builders were already up to speed and needed no comments.  

   

John  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper

 Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 1:46 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Elevator balance (retraction)  

  

   

John,  

    Thanks for the tactful BS flag, having done some more research I should have (as usual) kept my mouth shut and keyboard silent.  I reread my statement and realized I was mixing some memories.  Nobody has had to melt lead into the RV-6, that was my Skybolt so I’m already not doing well (perhaps I can claim lead poisoning from the experience).  So I broke out my old RV-6 plans and it clearly states to trim the elevator “in trail” so the tail low part was right out.  I found no reference in my old Aero books so resorted to Google and came across a Tony Bingelis article which confirms 100% pure balanced, or perhaps slightly nose low (opposite of my memory) depending on the manufacture.  Had you not made the question I would have been permanently convinced I had the right answer and from a credible (but not sure which) source.  

   

So, lesson learned (again), memory is not 100% reliable and it’s best to double check info before touting some great idea that might negatively affect safety.  Reminds me of the unsubstantiated claim threads about FAR compliance – sorry.  

   

Also, the do not archive line is a great way to prevent bogus info from staying in the archives inducing further confusion.  

   

Sean – disregard my previous answer.  

   

Humbly double checking my elevators,  

Marcus  

   

--

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armywrights(at)adelphia.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:18 pm Post subject: Elevator balance (retraction)

Have you had a chance to test if the elevators sag with all controls hooked up?  In helicopters, the cyclics are balanced so they are neutral.  Take the non-flying side out and the bias spring can’t overcome the c.g. shift, and the remaining cyclic will fall one way or the other depending on rigging.  Maybe the elevators will stay in a more neutral position with all controls (and their attendant weights) installed.  

   

Oh, just theory anyway since I’m nowhere near complete.  

   

Rob  

#392  

Emp Attach        

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper

 Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 3:46 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Elevator balance (retraction)  

  

   

John,  

    Thanks for the tactful BS flag, having done some more research I should have (as usual) kept my mouth shut and keyboard silent.  I reread my statement and realized I was mixing some memories.  Nobody has had to melt lead into the RV-6, that was my Skybolt so I’m already not doing well (perhaps I can claim lead poisoning from the experience).  So I broke out my old RV-6 plans and it clearly states to trim the elevator “in trail” so the tail low part was right out.  I found no reference in my old Aero books so resorted to Google and came across a Tony Bingelis article which confirms 100% pure balanced, or perhaps slightly nose low (opposite of my memory) depending on the manufacture.  Had you not made the question I would have been permanently convinced I had the right answer and from a credible (but not sure which) source.  

   

So, lesson learned (again), memory is not 100% reliable and it’s best to double check info before touting some great idea that might negatively affect safety.  Reminds me of the unsubstantiated claim threads about FAR compliance – sorry.  

   

Also, the do not archive line is a great way to prevent bogus info from staying in the archives inducing further confusion.  

   

Sean – disregard my previous answer.  

   

Humbly double checking my elevators,  

Marcus  

   

--

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

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