Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:20 am Post subject: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump

I filter all my gasoline with a Chamois covered funnel,  is the first piece of "luggage" in my plane in a XCountry .  Never had fueled direct from the pump to the tank...  The only way to trust the Gascolator...

  

 Saludos

 Gary Gower

 Flying from Chapala, Mexico. 

 Today a real clear and calm sky,  great afternoon, missed my camera!



--- On Sat, 12/27/08, Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  From: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>

Subject: Re: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, December 27, 2008, 12:18 AM



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>



Larry



Thank you for the post. I am planning to put my pumps in the wing also, but I

have built a more complicated installation based on a concept at ch601.org.

Simple is beautiful--I like your idea much better. Since I have plenty of time,

I think that I will probably install my pumps at you have done. One thing

I'm undecided about--fuel filters. The instructions for the pumps recommend

a filter upstream from the pump. My EAA Tech Counselor doesn't believe in

filters that can plug up on the pump suction. I don't know what I will do.



Regarding the fuel lines, I personally doubt 4 years unused is an issue for

those lines, assuming the hoses have not been exposed to UV light (i.e.,

sunlight). I'm planning to use aluminum lines from the wings through the

firewall. I'm more comfortable with metal lines. We'll see if I have any

luck bending the aluminum tubing into 3-D shapes  I'm thinking I need to

order some more tubing to allow for mistakes.



Let us know how the wing mounted pumps work out for you.



Terry

At 04:10 PM 12/26/2008 -0800, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi All

 

 Last year when I was working on the wings. I made the decision to put a

fuel pump in the root of each wing. As I see it a pump is much better at pushing
	


than it is at suction.

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Anyway, I now have the fuselage on the gear!!! and I have brought the

wings back to the bench for finish work and closure of the top skin and top
	


leading edge.

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 I'm concerned about the longevity of the fuel lines, on two fronts.

First this line came with the kit I picked up in Nov 2005. Is age a factor
	


here??  These lines wont see fuel for at least another 4 months.

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Second Question, Since ethanol is hard to avoid in MOGAS these days

I'd like to make sure that my fuel system is compatible. What about these
	


lines??  Is Ethanol / MOGAS a problem for this line??  As you can see from the

attached picture I can inspect the lines through the access port but the only

way to replace them is to open up the leading edge. So obviously if I need to

make a change, now it the time.

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Comments Concerns Criticisms   All welcome!!

 

 Larry Whitlow

 601XL  85% done 61% to go

 N69102 (reserved) or N747LW (reserved) (I can't decide)


	




Terry Phillips  ZBAGer

ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

Corvallis MT

601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons

are done; working on the wings

http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/  





	
	


           [quote][b]

goodings(at)yorku.ca
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:59 am Post subject: Fuel lines and fuel pump

It is, perhaps, salutory to register a different opinion.  Personally, I 

wouldn't DREAM of using metal fuel lines.  In my research labs over many 

years, we used a great deal of metal tubing with metal fittings (mainly 

Swagelock, brass and stainless) for gas lines (hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, 

chlorine, etc.) to feed burners for combustion studies.  It takes a while 

before one has sufficient experience to be really good at these 

installations.  The metal fittings crimp tightly into the tubing to make a 

work-hardened gas-tight seal; it is a localized stress point.  These can 

crack.  Under vibration near an aircraft engine, they would be a constant 

source of worry to my mind.  Modern rubber fuel line (ethanol is not a 

problem) is excellent.  The rubber fuel lines in our 601HD are now over 5 

years old.  I keep inspecting them, but there is no sign of deterioration. 

A local AME tells me they should be routinely replaced after 10 years as 

is done on certified aircraft, even though they may not need it. 

Incidentally, Dave, pure ethanol and gasoline won't have the slightest 

effect on aluminum, nor will pure water.  The effect of an ethanol/impure 

water mixture is more difficult to guess, because it depends on the 

impurities.



John Goodings, C-FGPJ CH601HD with R912S, Carp/Ottawa/Toronto.

Brady

Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 182
Location: Poulsbo, WA

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump

John,



Using aluminum fuel lines is standard practice in certified aircraft.

The metals you mentioned are known for work hardening and would be poor choices for sure in a fuel system on an aircraft.



The Highest vibration frequency area would be the transition between the airframe and the engine. This is why I elected to use a hose connection from the firewall to the engine. This line should be well supported or tied to avoid movement even still.



The aluminum tubing typically used for fuel lines is alloy 3003-0.

This tubing is specifically for fuel lines as well as oil lines and is commonly used for air and instrument lines also.

It is common practice to secure these lines so vibration is limited and annealing the tubing after bending and flaring is also recommended.



However, regardless of what your fuel system is made of Preventive maintenance is called Preventive for a reason, and should be inspected often. It is always better to find the issue before it is a problem.



Dave Austin,



I would think that any adverse affect to the aluminum in an aircraft fuel system would be caused by galvanic corrosion rather than some chemical incompatibility like what happens with the carburetor gaskets and diaphragms when exposed to ethanol.



For those who are not familiar with galvanic corrosion; it is caused by dissimilar metals that come in contact with an electrolyte of some sort.

The electrolyte could be as simple as water.

Galvanic action is how batteries work and how electroplating is done.

The less noble metal is eaten away. 

Aluminum is near the bottom of the nobility chart, Magnesium and zinc are the only metals less noble than aluminum.



Sorry if that seemed obvious to most of you but maybe not everyone is familiar.



I once removed the fresh water tanks in a multimillion $ Yacht because of galvanic corrosion. Someone had installed a brass fitting in the aluminum tank. A simple oversight that ended in a severely expensive refit.



One last thought that occurred to me about the fuel pump location was that if the fuel pumps are in the wing roots and you were (god forbid) in an accident and there was a fuel leak, the leak could likely be under pressure. If the Pumps are mounted to the firewall the length of pressurized line is much shorter and therefore minimizes this risk some what.

_________________
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com

Trainnut01(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:37 pm Post subject: Fuel lines and fuel pump

John

 Let me add a thought. This came up on the RV list several years ago and someone offered the opinion that the metal lines are more likly to break in an accident. Maybe?

 Carroll



One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.

  [quote][b]

Brady

Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 182
Location: Poulsbo, WA

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump

Carroll,



Not a bad point.

Always very tough decisions.

No perfect solutions & always a compromise. 

I suppose it will always come to rest on the builder/ pilots comfort level.

_________________
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: Fuel lines and fuel pump

That's why it's a bad idea to put the pumps in the wing next to the tanks  12 V next to the fuel tanks don't sound that great to me and in an accident it  would most likely break the wires and cause a spark.

 On all the planes I have built the ONLY flexible lines on the whole  aircraft are the fuel line from the firewall to the carb. and the brake lines  inside the cabin.

  

 Jeff Garrett

 Louisville Ky.

601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair  90%

 601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair  155 Hrs

 601XL N2257  Aerolite Corvair  225 Hrs

www.aeroliteproducts.com

www.project601xl.com

www.aerolite.camstreams.com

  

  

 John

  	  Quote: 	
		     Let me add a thought. This came up on the RV list several years ago and    someone offered the opinion that the metal lines are more likly to break in an    accident. Maybe?

   Carroll

	


 

  

  

  

  

  



One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.

  [quote][b]

steveadams

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 191

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump

The CH640 and Alarus use the same rubber fuel lines as the 601. The Alarus service manual specifies replacing the rubber fuel lines every 5 years or 2400 hours, whichever comes first. Because I didn't want to mess with changing out the hoses, I put in aluminum lines up to the firewall. I think either will work fine, if you don't mind switching them out every 5 years.

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump

I've installed aluminum lines in the wings and plan to use flex lines between the wings and fuselage then aluminum up to the firewall.  From the firewall to the carb on the Jabiru I'll be running a rubber hose.  I've had experience with leaking rubber hose in hard to reach areas of a production aircraft (usually connections between aluminum lines) and prefer not to deal with such problems in my XL.



Tim

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump

I will toss in my 2 cents worth..... I have owned a few certified planes in my time and off hand I can think of two failures of aluminum fuel lines, and one brake line, all were a PAIN in the butt to fix. The fuel lines were held in place throughout the airframe with Adel clamps and where they were supported moisture wicked in and between the rubber and the line itself, causing pin holes and a fuel leak. In one plane it took half a day to remove and replace the line. In the other one we had to remove the wing to get to the line to replace it.  It was a BIG DEAL !! and I swore I would never use aluminum lines  if I could help it... Thank god for experimental planes and the fact I am not saddled with the hard line BS.. As a side note if you buy good, high quality flexible fuel lines they will probably last longer then you will be flying.  I have a 1978 Ford van I use for a work truck, there are rubber lines in it I know for a fact are original and not even designed for alcohol, and ya know what,,, to this day, 30 years later, they still are holding up ok and do not leak... This is my opinion and I personally would not use rigid lines if a flex line would work.   Flame suit on scotty, !!!!!! 

YMMV... Happy New Year and..................... do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



-- "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net> wrote:

--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>



I've installed aluminum lines in the wings and plan to use flex lines between the wings and fuselage then aluminum up to the firewall.  From the firewall to the carb on the Jabiru I'll be running a rubber hose.  I've had experience with leaking rubber hose in hard to reach areas of a production aircraft (usually connections between aluminum lines) and prefer not to deal with such problems in my XL.



Tim



--------

______________

CFII

Champ L16A flying

Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A

Working on fuselage





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matroni================================================nbsp;         (And Get Some                      -Matt Dralle========================          - The Zenith-List========================================================================================================

  



____________________________________________________________ 

TOP Chart Ringtones

Get top ringtones on your cell phone. Click here now!

  [quote][b]

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump

You won't get flamed by me....  personally I think the info gained by these discussions is important in helping each of us to decide how we want to go with our planes.  I think that either approach has it's pros and cons which the builder needs to weigh before going ahead with whatever they feel most comfortable with.  The key is to be sure to inspect your fuel lines on a regular basis and take action as necessary.  In the real world such things seldom get much attention until they fail.  Having a mechanic poke around once a year isn't enough.



Regarding metal fuel lines, believe it or not the lines used in my Aeronca Champ are copper with brass fittings.  The one exception is a flexible aeroquip hose from the gascolator on the firewall to the carb.  It has worked well for the last 23 years that I've been flying it.



Tim

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump

Oops!  I forgot to mention that I had a aluminum brake line fail once.  It broke when I tried to reposition it slightly.  The line broke near the top of the landing gear where it was exposed to flexing during every flight.  A poor design in my view.  I would never use a aluminum line where it would be exposed to any movement.



Tim

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

Brady

Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 182
Location: Poulsbo, WA

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump

Ben,

The pin holes you described are Galvanic corrosion caused by electrolysis.

This is easy to stop if one is aware of the potential and it's causes.

This is common in older aircraft as well as older pilots 

But once you find it you should give the entire plane a thorough look over because it is usually not just one area. 



Soft lines are easier to run or pull.

But just you try to push one through a wing 

Just kidding.



As long as it works and you are comfortable with it.

Ask 10 different engineers the same question and you will get 10 different answers.

_________________
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:33 am Post subject: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump

Tim

  

 When you run aluminum lines for the brakes you add a loop to absorb the  vibration. All the brake lines I have installed on the 601 have been aluminum  and have had no problems. And before a flame gets started I'm not saying there  is anything wrong with the lines Zenith supplies I just prefer aluminum.

  

  Jeff  Garrett

Louisville Ky.

601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair  90%

601XL  N524B Aerolite Corvair  155 Hrs

601XL N2257  Aerolite Corvair   225 Hrs

www.aeroliteproducts.com

www.project601xl.com

www.aerolite.camstreams.com  



  

 do not archive

  

 Oops!  I forgot to mention that I had a aluminum brake line fail  once.  It broke when I tried to reposition it slightly.  The line  broke near the top of the landing gear where it was exposed to flexing during  every flight.  A poor design in my view.  I would never use a aluminum  line where it would be exposed to any  movement.



Tim

 

  

  

  

  



One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.

  [quote][b]

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump

Jeff,

The broken brake line in question was on the 1975 C182 I used to own.  There was no loop as you describe.



I added hydraulic brakes to my Aeronca Champ and used aluminum lines everywhere except from the bottom of the gear leg to the brake cylinder and where the brake lines came off the parking brake valve to the top of the axle struts.  Those two areas are exposed to the wind and subject to a lot of flex.



I also prefer the aluminum lines but as of now am planning to go with the nylon lines that came with the kit.  We'll see what happens 



Tim

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

hills(at)sunflower.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: Fuel lines and fuel pump

Jeff;  

   

I don’t think it’s possible to create a spark with enough energy to ignite fuel with less than 28 volts DC, let along 12 volts. 24 VDC is referred to as intrinsically safe in the instrumentation industry, they use 24VDC instruments in grain elevators which are know to blowup, so I don’t see that anyone should worry about running 12 VDC in their wing and possibly causing a fire in a landing accident.  

   

Roger  

   

         

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc(at)aol.com

 Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 8:23 PM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Fuel lines and fuel pump  

  

       

That's why it's a bad idea to put the pumps in the wing next to the tanks 12 V next to the fuel tanks don't sound that great to me and in an accident it would most likely break the wires and cause a spark.  

    

On all the planes I have built the ONLY flexible lines on the whole aircraft are the fuel line from the firewall to the carb. and the brake lines inside the cabin.  

    

   

    

Jeff Garrett  

    

Louisville Ky.

 601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair  90%  

    

601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair  155 Hrs  

    

601XL N2257  Aerolite Corvair  225 Hrs

 www.aeroliteproducts.com

 www.project601xl.com

 www.aerolite.camstreams.com  

    

   

    

   

    

John  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

Let me add a thought. This came up on the RV list several years ago and someone offered the opinion that the metal lines are more likly to break in an accident. Maybe?  

    

Carroll  

  	
  

    

   

    

   

    

   

    

   

    

   

  



 

         

  

One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Some AWESOME Terrific Free --> http://www.matronics.com/cDralle, List Admin. Navigator to Archive much much href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronWeb href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ===========   

  

        [quote][b]

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: Fuel lines and fuel pump

Roger 

  

 I respect your opinion but must strongly disagree, Gas fumes will ignite  with the slightest spark otherwise the biggest risk from a survivable crash  wouldn't be fire.

  

  

 Jeff

  

  	  Quote: 	
		     

Jeff;   

    

I donâ€™t think itâ€™s    possible to create a spark with enough energy to ignite fuel with less than 28    volts DC, let along 12 volts. 24 VDC is referred to as intrinsically safe in    the instrumentation industry, they use 24VDC instruments in grain elevators    which are know to blowup, so I donâ€™t see that anyone should worry about    running 12 VDC in their wing and possibly causing a fire in a landing    accident.   

    

Roger   

    

             

   

From:    owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc(at)aol.com

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 8:23    PM

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Fuel lines    and fuel pump

   

          

That's why it's a    bad idea to put the pumps in the wing next to the tanks 12 V next to the fuel    tanks don't sound that great to me and in an accident it would most likely    break the wires and cause a spark.

      

On all the planes I    have built the ONLY flexible lines on the whole aircraft are the fuel    line from the firewall to the carb. and the brake lines inside the    cabin.

      

 

      

Jeff    Garrett

      

Louisville Ky.

601XL N962T Aerolite    Corvair  90%

      

601XL N524B Aerolite    Corvair  155 Hrs

      

601XL N2257     Aerolite Corvair  225 Hrs

www.aeroliteproducts.com

www.project601xl.com

www.aerolite.camstreams.com

      

 

      

 

      

John

    	  Quote: 	
		            

Let me add a      thought. This came up on the RV list several years ago and someone offered      the opinion that the metal lines are more likly to break in an accident.      Maybe?

          

Carroll

	


	


 

  



One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.

  [quote][b]

hills(at)sunflower.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: Fuel lines and fuel pump

Jeff;  

   

Fuel is typically ignited, after a crash from a small plane, because it drips on the hot exhaust pipes, which are about 1000 degrees near the engine.  

Electrical power from a 12 volt aircraft system is protected by a fuse, for wing tanks pumps, it is typically 5 amps.  If the fuel pump hot wire was to ground, a tiny and cool spark would result, and be gone in about 50 msec as the fuse blows from the overload (assuming you have installed the correct fuses for your pump). It’s a bit complicated, but basically the number of electrons that can jump through the air with 12 Volts source applied simply don’t have enough energy (I.E.  heat) associated with them to ignite gasoline. When you see hot sparks from a 12 volts source being grounded, your actually seeing the conductive material melting and becoming incandescent because the current is applied for to long.  The job of your aircraft fusing is to prevent the flow of electricity from becoming so great so as to heat the conductive material to this degree, I.E, the fuse will blow first before over heating of the conductive metal occurs and creates sparks hot enough to ignite fuel. However, an unfused direct link from the battery has enough amps to heat metal to such a degree that it would ignite fuel vapor. Even then, the grounding of the battery would still need to be continues enough to heat contact metals to the combustion temperature of gasoline vapor (But of course you properly fuse all of your wires going to the wings, don’t you?)  

   

Clear as mud?  

   

Hope this helps  

   

Roger  

   

    

   

         

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc(at)aol.com

 Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 7:09 PM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Fuel lines and fuel pump  

  

       

Roger   

    

   

    

I respect your opinion but must strongly disagree, Gas fumes will ignite with the slightest spark otherwise the biggest risk from a survivable crash wouldn't be fire.  

    

   

    

   

    

Jeff  

    

   

   	  Quote: 	
		    

Jeff;  

   

I don’t think it’s possible to create a spark with enough energy to ignite fuel with less than 28 volts DC, let along 12 volts. 24 VDC is referred to as intrinsically safe in the instrumentation industry, they use 24VDC instruments in grain elevators which are know to blowup, so I don’t see that anyone should worry about running 12 VDC in their wing and possibly causing a fire in a landing accident.  

   

Roger  

   

         

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc(at)aol.com

 Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 8:23 PM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Fuel lines and fuel pump  

  

       

That's why it's a bad idea to put the pumps in the wing next to the tanks 12 V next to the fuel tanks don't sound that great to me and in an accident it would most likely break the wires and cause a spark.  

    

On all the planes I have built the ONLY flexible lines on the whole aircraft are the fuel line from the firewall to the carb. and the brake lines inside the cabin.  

    

   

    

Jeff Garrett  

    

Louisville Ky.

 601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair  90%  

    

601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair  155 Hrs  

    

601XL N2257  Aerolite Corvair  225 Hrs

 www.aeroliteproducts.com

 www.project601xl.com

 www.aerolite.camstreams.com  

    

   

    

   

    

John  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

Let me add a thought. This came up on the RV list several years ago and someone offered the opinion that the metal lines are more likly to break in an accident. Maybe?  

    

Carroll  

  	
  

  	
  

    

   

  



 

         

  

One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.  

   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/contribution 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7 	  Quote: 	
		   	
8 	  Quote: 	
		   	
9 	  Quote: 	
		  	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  	
1 	  Quote: 	
		  	
2 	  Quote: 	
		  	
3

        [quote][b]

notsew_evets(at)frontiern
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:29 am Post subject: Fuel lines and fuel pump

There was a very good video a few years ago showing  a float plane pilot fueling his airplane using plastic gas cans.

 The static caused from the plastic can set off  the vapors and the result was a disaster...

 When fueling a plastic gas can at the local gas  station, theres is a requirement that your plastic container be "on the ground"  to eliminate static spark, which WILL ignite the vapors.

 Factoid...

 [quote]   ---

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: Fuel lines and fuel pump

I wasn't going to even reply to his last post.  But now he will say that a 

static spark has over 10,000 volts and that's  why it can ignite fumes. But from 

what I remember as a kid a spark is a spark is  a spark when it comes to gas 

fumes but he has it (clear as  mud) I think that's why they put blowers in 

marine engine  compartments. (Because any spark can ignite the fumes)

 

BTW Roger read this:

 

Grain Dust Explosion Elements

For a grain dust explosion to occur, four  basic physical

elements must be present:

1.fuel â€“ very small particles of  dry grain dust from wheat,

milo, oats, barley, wheat or oat flour, corn  starch, etc.

Grain dust must be suspended in the air to create  an

explosion, but layers of dust in confined space provide

explosive  potential.

2. oxygen â€“ adequate air supply with normal  oxygen

levels.

3. confinement â€“ a vertical elevator leg casing or  housing,

an enclosed drag conveyor, a dust bin, a down spout, an

aeration  duct, a basement tunnel, a bin deck gallery, a

bin, a silo, etc.

4.  ignition source â€“ an overheated bearing in an elevator

leg boot, head or  conveyor; an elevator leg belt rubbing

against leg sidewall casing; an electrical arc from a nonexplosion

proof  electrical device; an electrical short;

phosphine pellets or tablets  exploding in a wet aeration

duct; static electricity; a cigarette lighter or  lit cigarette;

a cutting torch; metal sparks from a grinder; metal  to

metal sparks; a dropped tool; lightning, etc.

Additionally, low  relative humidity weather con

 

In other words Roger the controls you site in your post are explosion  proof

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:22 am Post subject: Fuel lines and fuel pump

A static charge can build up to several thousand volts before it  

discharges, definitely enough to ignite gasoline vapor under certain  

conditions. There have been several incidents with automobiles. The  

risk is greatest when the air is very dry because that allows the  

static charge to build up to higher voltages before it will discharge.



On Dec 31, 2008, at 10:27 AM, steve wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   There was a very good video a few years ago showing a float plane  

 pilot fueling his airplane using plastic gas cans.

 The static caused from the plastic can set off the vapors and the  

 result was a disaster...

 When fueling a plastic gas can at the local gas station, theres is a  

 requirement that your plastic container be "on the ground" to  

 eliminate static spark, which WILL ignite the vapors.




	


-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next
Page 2 of 3

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum