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Re: Bummin' on Empty Weight

 
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tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:23 am    Post subject: Re: Bummin' on Empty Weight Reply with quote


Thanks for all the replies, listers!
I forgot the mention that my battery & ELT are already as far aft as I can
get them. The battery is relatively light at 12.0 lbs, so I'll probably go
to a heavier battery and/or tailwheel after painting (assuming similar W&B
results). Thanks especially the Cliff for mentioning that your craft is not
powdercoated.........mine is & I can see it was put on heavy in many areas
so I'll attribute at least some of the difference in weight to that. My
second best guess is that my factory quick build wings were also not done
with light weight in mind. Lots of adhesive, it seems to me, & I ordered
all the false ribs too. I am using the Polyfiber finishing system, but,
given the chance to do it again, I would use the Airtech system for the
lighter weight. I hear nothing but good things about that system & every
plane painted with it looks fabulous.
Thanks for helping get over my disappointment. I'm thankful it wasn't any
worse.
One last question: Did you all put varnish or some other kind of sealant on
your wood ribs? I did & am thinking that may also be some of the heavy
weight. Just a thought. Interested in your replies.
Thanks again,
Grant
Time: 11:52:41 AM PST US
From: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bummin' on Empty Weight
<shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com>
One of the biggest weight savers on my plane was the use of ASF finish. But
there were lots of little items that all add up. Lightweight alternator off
of a kubota tractor, custom aluminum pulley on alternator, tiny aluminum
skull cap spinner, lightweight starter, 2 electronic ignitions (no mags), no
mechanical fuel pump, minimalist panel, lightweight seat cushions, absence
of fancy interior, lightweight Odyssey battery in the tail, lightweight ELT,
fuselage is painted instead of powdercoated.
There are probably numerous other things that Vic did that I don't know
about.
Don't sweat it, at 914 lbs you still have the "second lightest" kitfox with
an 0-235
Wink
Cliff
Kitfox 5, 870 lbs
Grant, where is the battery located? For the heavy engines, most people put
it in the tail area. I would hate to see you add ballast too. On my KF 5
with Subaru I made a battery box and hung it just forward of the rear
stabilizer.
Don Pearsall


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pliedl(at)earthlink.net
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: Bummin' on Empty Weight Reply with quote


Hi Grant:
I have never understood some of the extremes that builders have gone to for
the sake of a few lbs. I have a Kitfox V with an IO-240 which weights in
at about 955 lbs. on wheels. I also fly it with a set of amphibious floats.
I had a problem initially with the "most adverse forward CG" being to far
forward and, like you, I was opposed to adding ballast to the tail. What I
did was replace the original tailwheel with a larger Scott tailwheel and
mounted a fire extinguish and emergency survival kit in the rear of the
baggage compartment. These changes brought the CG into an acceptable
range. The fire extinguisher and survival kit are now "required equipment".
I have been flying N444PL for five years now and have never wished that it
was 20 lbs. lighter - what real difference would it make anyway. Stop
fretting over the weight and go out a enjoy your airplane.
Have fun,
Paul Liedl


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shoeless(at)barefootpilot
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: Bummin' on Empty Weight Reply with quote


It's true that even a heavy Model 5 can perform well, but there are degrees
of how well it can perform.
If you are not doing hard core bush flying, a little extra weight won't
matter except to reduce your useful load.
But I can tell you from personal experience of owning 2 model 5's that if
you really want extreme short field performance, every extra pound matters.
Just my humble opinion.
Cliff
Hi Grant:
I have never understood some of the extremes that builders have gone to for
the sake of a few lbs. I have a Kitfox V with an IO-240 which weights in
at about 955 lbs. on wheels. I also fly it with a set of amphibious floats.
I had a problem initially with the "most adverse forward CG" being to far
forward and, like you, I was opposed to adding ballast to the tail. What I
did was replace the original tailwheel with a larger Scott tailwheel and
mounted a fire extinguish and emergency survival kit in the rear of the
baggage compartment. These changes brought the CG into an acceptable
range. The fire extinguisher and survival kit are now "required equipment".
I have been flying N444PL for five years now and have never wished that it
was 20 lbs. lighter - what real difference would it make anyway. Stop
fretting over the weight and go out a enjoy your airplane.
Have fun,
Paul Liedl


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algate(at)attglobal.net
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: Bummin' on Empty Weight Reply with quote


I agree Cliff - if you are flying out of GA airports it probably doesn't
matter but I do most of my flying out of small lakes and grass strips and I
certainly notice 20+ pounds. I think I read somewhere that each lb equals 4
ft/min?
GaryA
Lite2/582
But I can tell you from personal experience of owning 2 model 5's that if
you really want extreme short field performance, every extra pound matters.
Just my humble opinion.
Cliff


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morid(at)northland.lib.mi
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: Bummin' on Empty Weight Reply with quote


Grant, being weight concious while building is something I wouldn't argue
with. There are lots of places on my V that I could have done better and if
I could go back I'd probably do it slightly different. However, I wouldn't
recommend NOT varnishing the ribs. I used epoxy varnish and doubt that
there was a pound added to the weight of the aircraft after the outgassing
was finished. Failure to seal them would lead to all sorts of problems, the
most common being warped ribs from absorbing moisture in humid climates.
Deke
...snip...
Quote:

One last question: Did you all put varnish or some other kind of sealant
on

Quote:
your wood ribs? I did & am thinking that may also be some of the heavy
weight. Just a thought. Interested in your replies.
Thanks again,
Grant
Time: 11:52:41 AM PST US
From: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bummin' on Empty Weight
<shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com>
One of the biggest weight savers on my plane was the use of ASF finish.
But

Quote:
there were lots of little items that all add up. Lightweight alternator
off

Quote:
of a kubota tractor, custom aluminum pulley on alternator, tiny aluminum
skull cap spinner, lightweight starter, 2 electronic ignitions (no mags),
no

Quote:
mechanical fuel pump, minimalist panel, lightweight seat cushions, absence
of fancy interior, lightweight Odyssey battery in the tail, lightweight
ELT,

Quote:
fuselage is painted instead of powdercoated.
There are probably numerous other things that Vic did that I don't know
about.
Don't sweat it, at 914 lbs you still have the "second lightest" kitfox
with

Quote:
an 0-235
Wink
Cliff
Kitfox 5, 870 lbs
Grant, where is the battery located? For the heavy engines, most people
put

Quote:
it in the tail area. I would hate to see you add ballast too. On my KF 5
with Subaru I made a battery box and hung it just forward of the rear
stabilizer.
Don Pearsall

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7suds(at)Chartermi.net
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Bummin' on Empty Weight Reply with quote


Paul,
Just a question that popped into my head when reading the below, can you
reach your fire extinguisher from the pilots seat without unstrapping?
Heaven forbid anyone would have an in-flight fire, it would be double tragic
to have one and not be able to reach the fire extinguisher, just a thought.
My extinguisher is also mounted in the luggage area but behind the passenger
seat and reachable with my right hand, but then it is not required for
ballast either.
Lloyd


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