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pilotdds(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:52 pm Post subject: AOPA magazine |
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Nice RV-10 write up in the Aopa magazine-interesting comment re oil temps
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:12 pm Post subject: AOPA magazine |
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| Quote: | >Peeler, a physician, said he doesn’t have the time or skills to build an airplane like the RV–10, which requires at least 2,000 hours for a veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies with the letter and spirit of the regulations by only using his aircraft for private, noncommercial purposes and hiring professional mechanics to perform the required inspections.
“I’m not the builder of this airplane and I don’t pretend to be,” he said.<<
|
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=430WP
He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, and had his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the 8130-12. He may have some 'splain'n to do...
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:50 PM, <pilotdds(at)aol.com (pilotdds(at)aol.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Nice RV-10 write up in the Aopa magazine-interesting comment re oil temps
|
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
[quote][b]
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2870
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: AOPA magazine |
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I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time
or skills". I mean, I had a 2 and 4 year old kid to raise, and
I took the time. I also didn't have any prior airplane building
experience, and experimental planes are for EDUCATION and
recreation....so you're supposed to LEARN the skills along
the way. So to me, it's a cop out when someone just
says they're too busy or don't know how. There are people
that take 1 year, and people that take 6 or 10 years to
complete their homebuilt...and most of them can then
take the pride that they indeed did build it.
Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where someone
said that they didn't build their plane, and that now they
have some maintenance they need to do, but they don't know
how to do it. And, they didn't really want to take things
apart very far to get to the parts in question. I pondered
that for a minute....now, not only did the guy buy the
plane, but he doesn't have the ambition to learn and take
it apart to do proper maintenance and wants to slide through
as simple as possible on that, too. What a shame. Wouldn't
it be better to grab the plans and tear into it, and
learn about how the plane is built at least? What a
shame, the level of concern we sometimes show for gathering
knowledge.
To me, I was happy to see RV-10's held in high regard by
AOPA's magazine, but I really think they went down the
wrong path using an example of the plane that wasn't
being flown by the actual builder. It's nice press
coverage, but really, it's a homebuilt plane, and
it would be nice if an honest to goodness homebuilder
could share their even greater joy and regard for the
process, and how much it enriched their life and experience.
Not knocking anyone in particular with that...it's just
that really, it's a nice plane and all, but it's the
complete understanding, attention to detail, ultra
care in maintenance and quality, and that sort of thing
that sets us apart. The plane itself can be far better
than most certified planes, simply due to the fact that
an honest to goodness homebuilder "Repairman" can
do improvements that FAA regs would handicap them
from being able to accomplish if it were certified...at
least without tons of paperwork.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: | >>Peeler, a physician, said he doesn’t have the time or skills to build
an airplane like the RV–10, which requires at least 2,000 hours for a
veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies with the letter and
spirit of the regulations by only using his aircraft for private,
noncommercial purposes and hiring professional mechanics to perform the
required inspections.
“I’m not the builder of this airplane and I don’t pretend to be,” he said.<<
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=430WP
He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, and had
his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the 8130-12. He
may have some 'splain'n to do...
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:50 PM, <pilotdds(at)aol.com
<mailto:pilotdds(at)aol.com>> wrote:
Nice RV-10 write up in the Aopa magazine-interesting comment re oil
temps
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject: AOPA magazine |
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Tim,
I was saying to myself, as I thumbed to the AOPA article, I hope it's Tim...but no. Oh well.
Geez, the timing couldn't be worse, since we're all waiting to see what FAA finally decides regarding 51%. I'm pretty sure they're NOT gonna say it's OK to violate the rule as long as you keep the operation non-commercial...
And although I for one am glad some people don't have the skills required (thereby generating my paycheck...), I agree that it is tiresome to hear about people who blatantly violate the rules. Somehow worse when they put it in black and white. Worse than that is when our #2 lobbying organization puts it in black and white for them, and either looks the other way or doesn't know the difference. C'mon, AOPA.
Dave
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>
I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time
or skills". I mean, I had a 2 and 4 year old kid to raise, and
I took the time. I also didn't have any prior airplane building
experience, and experimental planes are for EDUCATION and
recreation....so you're supposed to LEARN the skills along
the way. So to me, it's a cop out when someone just
says they're too busy or don't know how. There are people
that take 1 year, and people that take 6 or 10 years to
complete their homebuilt...and most of them can then
take the pride that they indeed did build it.
Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where someone
said that they didn't build their plane, and that now they
have some maintenance they need to do, but they don't know
how to do it. And, they didn't really want to take things
apart very far to get to the parts in question. I pondered
that for a minute....now, not only did the guy buy the
plane, but he doesn't have the ambition to learn and take
it apart to do proper maintenance and wants to slide through
as simple as possible on that, too. What a shame. Wouldn't
it be better to grab the plans and tear into it, and
learn about how the plane is built at least? What a
shame, the level of concern we sometimes show for gathering
knowledge.
To me, I was happy to see RV-10's held in high regard by
AOPA's magazine, but I really think they went down the
wrong path using an example of the plane that wasn't
being flown by the actual builder. It's nice press
coverage, but really, it's a homebuilt plane, and
it would be nice if an honest to goodness homebuilder
could share their even greater joy and regard for the
process, and how much it enriched their life and experience.
Not knocking anyone in particular with that...it's just
that really, it's a nice plane and all, but it's the
complete understanding, attention to detail, ultra
care in maintenance and quality, and that sort of thing
that sets us apart. The plane itself can be far better
than most certified planes, simply due to the fact that
an honest to goodness homebuilder "Repairman" can
do improvements that FAA regs would handicap them
from being able to accomplish if it were certified...at
least without tons of paperwork.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: | >>Peeler, a physician, said he doesn’t have the time or skills to build an airplane like the RV–10, which requires at least 2,000 hours for a veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies with the letter and spirit of the regulations by only using his aircraft for private, noncommercial purposes and hiring professional mechanics to perform the required inspections.
“I’m not the builder of this airplane and I don’t pretend to be,” he said.<<
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=430WP
He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, and had his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the 8130-12. He may have some 'splain'n to do...
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:50 PM, <pilotdds(at)aol.com (pilotdds(at)aol.com) <mailto:pilotdds(at)aol.com (pilotdds(at)aol.com)>> wrote:
Nice RV-10 write up in the Aopa magazine-interesting comment re oil
temps
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
|
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arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
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--
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
[quote][b]
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gengrumpy(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:12 am Post subject: AOPA magazine |
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AOPA should have done the article on Tim.......
And wonder if Peeler got a repairman's certificate as well?
grumpy
N184JM
do not archive
On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
| Quote: |
I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time
or skills". I mean, I had a 2 and 4 year old kid to raise, and
I took the time. I also didn't have any prior airplane building
experience, and experimental planes are for EDUCATION and
recreation....so you're supposed to LEARN the skills along
the way. So to me, it's a cop out when someone just
says they're too busy or don't know how. There are people
that take 1 year, and people that take 6 or 10 years to
complete their homebuilt...and most of them can then
take the pride that they indeed did build it.
Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where someone
said that they didn't build their plane, and that now they
have some maintenance they need to do, but they don't know
how to do it. And, they didn't really want to take things
apart very far to get to the parts in question. I pondered
that for a minute....now, not only did the guy buy the
plane, but he doesn't have the ambition to learn and take
it apart to do proper maintenance and wants to slide through
as simple as possible on that, too. What a shame. Wouldn't
it be better to grab the plans and tear into it, and
learn about how the plane is built at least? What a
shame, the level of concern we sometimes show for gathering
knowledge.
To me, I was happy to see RV-10's held in high regard by
AOPA's magazine, but I really think they went down the
wrong path using an example of the plane that wasn't
being flown by the actual builder. It's nice press
coverage, but really, it's a homebuilt plane, and
it would be nice if an honest to goodness homebuilder
could share their even greater joy and regard for the
process, and how much it enriched their life and experience.
Not knocking anyone in particular with that...it's just
that really, it's a nice plane and all, but it's the
complete understanding, attention to detail, ultra
care in maintenance and quality, and that sort of thing
that sets us apart. The plane itself can be far better
than most certified planes, simply due to the fact that
an honest to goodness homebuilder "Repairman" can
do improvements that FAA regs would handicap them
from being able to accomplish if it were certified...at
least without tons of paperwork.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Dave Saylor wrote:
> >>Peeler, a physician, said he doesn’t have the time or skills to
> build an airplane like the RV–10, which requires at least 2,000
> hours for a veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies
> with the letter and spirit of the regulations by only using his
> aircraft for private, noncommercial purposes and hiring
> professional mechanics to perform the required inspections.
> “I’m not the builder of this airplane and I don’t pretend to be,”
> he said.<<
> http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=430WP
> He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, and
> had his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the
> 8130-12. He may have some 'splain'n to do...
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:50 PM, <pilotdds(at)aol.com <mailto:pilotdds(at)aol.com
> >> wrote:
> Nice RV-10 write up in the Aopa magazine-interesting comment re
> oil
> temps
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters LLC
> 140 Aviation Way
> Watsonville, CA 95076
> 831-722-9141 Shop
> 831-750-0284 Cell
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:14 am Post subject: AOPA magazine |
|
|
I feel frustrated that the opportunity to showcase the RV-10 was done the way it was. I wrote a letter to Dave and told him so. I would encourage many to let Dave know how you feel. I believe he did a disservice to the RV-10 community, the EAA and his readers by using such a poor example for Builders. As an outsider I would think I was reading about a "build to suit" aircraft not a homebuilt, the experience of building was completely lost in this by "not having time or skills" as Tim says who does?? this is for education and that usually takes time to learn the skill.
Mosty of us will agree, Tim or even Jesse Saint and his efforts to teach Equadorian folks a trade via the RV-10 would have been much better way to discuss a "homebuilt" aircraft.
Pascal
From: Dave Saylor (dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 11:20 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: AOPA magazine
Tim,
I was saying to myself, as I thumbed to the AOPA article, I hope it's Tim...but no. Oh well.
Geez, the timing couldn't be worse, since we're all waiting to see what FAA finally decides regarding 51%. I'm pretty sure they're NOT gonna say it's OK to violate the rule as long as you keep the operation non-commercial...
And although I for one am glad some people don't have the skills required (thereby generating my paycheck...), I agree that it is tiresome to hear about people who blatantly violate the rules. Somehow worse when they put it in black and white. Worse than that is when our #2 lobbying organization puts it in black and white for them, and either looks the other way or doesn't know the difference. C'mon, AOPA.
Dave
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>
I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time
or skills". I mean, I had a 2 and 4 year old kid to raise, and
I took the time. I also didn't have any prior airplane building
experience, and experimental planes are for EDUCATION and
recreation....so you're supposed to LEARN the skills along
the way. So to me, it's a cop out when someone just
says they're too busy or don't know how. There are people
that take 1 year, and people that take 6 or 10 years to
complete their homebuilt...and most of them can then
take the pride that they indeed did build it.
Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where someone
said that they didn't build their plane, and that now they
have some maintenance they need to do, but they don't know
how to do it. And, they didn't really want to take things
apart very far to get to the parts in question. I pondered
that for a minute....now, not only did the guy buy the
plane, but he doesn't have the ambition to learn and take
it apart to do proper maintenance and wants to slide through
as simple as possible on that, too. What a shame. Wouldn't
it be better to grab the plans and tear into it, and
learn about how the plane is built at least? What a
shame, the level of concern we sometimes show for gathering
knowledge.
To me, I was happy to see RV-10's held in high regard by
AOPA's magazine, but I really think they went down the
wrong path using an example of the plane that wasn't
being flown by the actual builder. It's nice press
coverage, but really, it's a homebuilt plane, and
it would be nice if an honest to goodness homebuilder
could share their even greater joy and regard for the
process, and how much it enriched their life and experience.
Not knocking anyone in particular with that...it's just
that really, it's a nice plane and all, but it's the
complete understanding, attention to detail, ultra
care in maintenance and quality, and that sort of thing
that sets us apart. The plane itself can be far better
than most certified planes, simply due to the fact that
an honest to goodness homebuilder "Repairman" can
do improvements that FAA regs would handicap them
from being able to accomplish if it were certified...at
least without tons of paperwork.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: | >>Peeler, a physician, said he doesn’t have the time or skills to build an airplane like the RV–10, which requires at least 2,000 hours for a veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies with the letter and spirit of the regulations by only using his aircraft for private, noncommercial purposes and hiring professional mechanics to perform the required inspections.
“I’m not the builder of this airplane and I don’t pretend to be,” he said.<<
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=430WP
He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, and had his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the 8130-12. He may have some 'splain'n to do...
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:50 PM, <pilotdds(at)aol.com (pilotdds(at)aol.com) <mailto:pilotdds(at)aol.com (pilotdds(at)aol.com)>> wrote:
Nice RV-10 write up in the Aopa magazine-interesting comment re oil
temps
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
|
===========
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
|
--
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2870
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:17 am Post subject: AOPA magazine |
|
|
It's not about me.... I'd love to see Scott, Vic, or
anyone who's out really USING their RV-10 for some
good trips be in an article. I write enough of my
own garbage.  I just really think that if there's
going to be an article about a homebuilt, it should
show the very good parts about the entire process,
the airplane, and why it's so good. IMHO, homebuilts
have the best potential to be very very safe planes,
especially when they're cared for by the person who
is really in love with their creation. As I lease
this Cherokee I'm continually annoyed by the concept
that if I could only dig in and do all the work on it
without such restriction, I could correct so many
deficiencies in safety. Under the cowl that plane
is a mess, compared to the average RV-10, yet it's
still airworthy once it's in the hands of an A&P
with a pen. So we have opportunities to really
have a world where mechanical issues are just not
really existent on any real level...because we
are the builder...we are the repairman.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Miller John wrote:
| Quote: |
AOPA should have done the article on Tim.......
And wonder if Peeler got a repairman's certificate as well?
grumpy
N184JM
do not archive
On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
>
> I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time
> or skills". I mean, I had a 2 and 4 year old kid to raise, and
> I took the time. I also didn't have any prior airplane building
> experience, and experimental planes are for EDUCATION and
> recreation....so you're supposed to LEARN the skills along
> the way. So to me, it's a cop out when someone just
> says they're too busy or don't know how. There are people
> that take 1 year, and people that take 6 or 10 years to
> complete their homebuilt...and most of them can then
> take the pride that they indeed did build it.
>
> Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where someone
> said that they didn't build their plane, and that now they
> have some maintenance they need to do, but they don't know
> how to do it. And, they didn't really want to take things
> apart very far to get to the parts in question. I pondered
> that for a minute....now, not only did the guy buy the
> plane, but he doesn't have the ambition to learn and take
> it apart to do proper maintenance and wants to slide through
> as simple as possible on that, too. What a shame. Wouldn't
> it be better to grab the plans and tear into it, and
> learn about how the plane is built at least? What a
> shame, the level of concern we sometimes show for gathering
> knowledge.
>
> To me, I was happy to see RV-10's held in high regard by
> AOPA's magazine, but I really think they went down the
> wrong path using an example of the plane that wasn't
> being flown by the actual builder. It's nice press
> coverage, but really, it's a homebuilt plane, and
> it would be nice if an honest to goodness homebuilder
> could share their even greater joy and regard for the
> process, and how much it enriched their life and experience.
> Not knocking anyone in particular with that...it's just
> that really, it's a nice plane and all, but it's the
> complete understanding, attention to detail, ultra
> care in maintenance and quality, and that sort of thing
> that sets us apart. The plane itself can be far better
> than most certified planes, simply due to the fact that
> an honest to goodness homebuilder "Repairman" can
> do improvements that FAA regs would handicap them
> from being able to accomplish if it were certified...at
> least without tons of paperwork.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
> Dave Saylor wrote:
>> >>Peeler, a physician, said he doesn’t have the time or skills to
>> build an airplane like the RV–10, which requires at least 2,000 hours
>> for a veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies with the
>> letter and spirit of the regulations by only using his aircraft for
>> private, noncommercial purposes and hiring professional mechanics to
>> perform the required inspections.
>> “I’m not the builder of this airplane and I don’t pretend to be,” he
>> said.<<
>> http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=430WP
>>
>> He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, and
>> had his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the
>> 8130-12. He may have some 'splain'n to do...
>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:50 PM, <pilotdds(at)aol.com
>> <mailto:pilotdds(at)aol.com>> wrote:
>> Nice RV-10 write up in the Aopa magazine-interesting comment re oil
>> temps
>> Dave Saylor
>> AirCrafters LLC
>> 140 Aviation Way
>> Watsonville, CA 95076
>> 831-722-9141 Shop
>> 831-750-0284 Cell
>
|
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jump2(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:29 am Post subject: AOPA magazine |
|
|
Tim,
Maybe it's the owner who wants their plane to look like shit and not pay an honest amount of money to fix it. You can always find some one to do work and sighn it off.
But its the owner who has to say do it right. And Pay.
Patrick Thyssen
A&P
I don't carry 100 lbs of tools in my planes and neither do my customers.
--- On Thu, 8/27/09, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:
[quote]
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: AOPA magazine
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 10:11 AM
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <[url=/mc/compose?to=Tim(at)myrv10.com]Tim(at)myrv10.com[/url]>
It's not about me.... I'd love to see Scott, Vic, or
anyone who's out really USING their RV-10 for some
good trips be in an article. I write enough of my
own garbage. I just really think that if there's
going to be an article about a homebuilt, it should
show the very good parts about the entire process,
the airplane, and why it's so good. IMHO, homebuilts
have the best potential to be very very safe planes,
especially when they're cared for by the person who
is really in love with their creation. As I lease
this Cherokee I'm continually annoyed by the concept
that if I could only dig in and do all the work on it
without such restriction, I could correct so many
deficiencies in safety. Under the cowl that plane
is a mess, compared to the average RV-10, yet it's
still airworthy once it's in the hands of an A&P
with a pen. So we have opportunities to really
have a world where mechanical issues are just not
really existent on any real level...because we
are the builder...we are the repairman.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Miller John wrote:
[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: Miller John <[url=/mc/compose?to=gengrumpy(at)aol.com]gengrumpy(at)aol.com[/url]>
AOPA should have done the article on Tim.......
And wonder if Peeler got a repairman's certificate as well?
grumpy
N184JM
do not archive
On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <[url=/mc/compose?to=Tim(at)myrv10.com]Tim(at)myrv10.com[/url]>
>
> I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time
> or skills". I mean, I had a 2 and 4 year old kid to raise, and
> I took the time. I also didn't have any prior airplane building
> experience, and experimental planes are for EDUCATION and
> recreation....so you're supposed to LEARN the skills along
> the way. So to me, it's a cop out when someone just
> says they're too busy or don't know how. There are people
> that take 1 year, and people that take 6 or 10 years to
> complete their homebuilt...and most of them can then
> take the pride that they indeed did build it.
>
> Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where someone
> said that they didn't build their plane, and that now they
> have some maintenance they need to do, but they don't know
> how to do it. And, they didn't really want to take things
> apart very far to get to the parts in question. I pondered
> that for a minute....now, not only did the guy buy the
> plane, but he doesn't have the ambition to learn and take
> it apart to do proper maintenance and wants to slide through
> as simple as possible on that, too. What a shame. Wouldn't
> it be better to grab the plans and tear into it, and
> learn about how the plane is built at least? What a
> shame, the level of concern we sometimes show for gathering
> knowledge.
>
> To me, I was happy to see RV-10's held in high regard by
> AOPA's magazine, but I really think they went down the
> wrong path using an example of the plane that wasn't
> being flown by the actual builder. It's nice press
> coverage, but really, it's a homebuilt plane, and
> it would be nice if an honest to goodness homebuilder
> could share their even greater joy and regard for the
> process, and how much it enriched their life and experience.
> Not knocking anyone in particular with that...it's just
> that really, it's a nice plane and all, but it's the
> complete understanding, attention to detail, ultra
> care in maintenance and quality, and that sort of thing
> that sets us apart. The plane itself can be far better
> than most certified planes, simply due to the fact that
> an honest to goodness homebuilder "Repairman" can
> do improvements that FAA regs would handicap them
> from being able to accomplish if it were certified...at
> least without tons of paperwork.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
> Dave Saylor wrote:
>> >>Peeler, a physician, said he doesn’t have the time or skills to build an airplane like the RV–10, which requires at least 2,000 hours for a veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies with the letter and spirit of the regulations by only using his aircraft for private, noncommercial purposes and hiring professional mechanics to perform the required inspections.
>> “I’m not the builder of this airplane and I don’t pretend to be,†he said.<<
>> http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=430WP
>> He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, and had his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the 8130-12. He may have some 'splain'n to do...
>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:50 PM, <pilotdds(at)aol.com (pilotdds(at)aol.com)>> wrote:
>> Nice RV-10 write up in the Aopa magazine-interesting comment re oil
>> temps
>> Dave Saylor
>> AirCrafters LLC
>> 140 Aviation Way
>> Watsonville, CA 95076
>> 831-722-9141 Shop
>> 831-750-0284 Cell
>
>
>
>
>
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:13 am Post subject: AOPA magazine |
|
|
Some A&Ps use their pen to document discrepancies. The A&P who signs it "Airworthy and Safe for Return to Flight" is only doing so at a glimpse of time against a documented and consistent TCDS standard. The FAR says it’s the operator who assumes All and final responsibility for an aircraft placed in flight as Airworthy. If a discrepancy is noted by an Operator, it is the operator who needs to inform the Renter/Owner as well as a receptive A&P and then not launch the thing.
What we do have is a rapidly aging fleet. A smaller new fleet that is well beyond the financial reach of most and now an AOPA article that says those with money can have those with talent, build them an aircraft that they certify the guy with money had built for Non Commercial Enjoyment. We also have an aging pilot base and a dwindling number of customers to support quality A&P services.
There is nothing wrong with an OBAM aircraft in the hands of a passionate and receptive operator.
John
do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:23 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2870
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:17 am Post subject: AOPA magazine |
|
|
Very true. I'm sure lots of A&P's just cringe at some
customers because they know the guy will just want it done
cheap...because work costs money. There's always that
tendency to say "Can you fix it, and what's the most
economical way to finish this?"....as opposed to "Can
you fix this and I'd like to see it fixed as good as
we can so that we never have to deal with this type of
issue again...i'd like it like new or better".
But you're absolutely right...the owners are the ones
who have to step up...even in our homebuilder groups.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Patrick Thyssen wrote:
| Quote: | Tim,
Maybe it's the owner who wants their plane to look like shit and not
pay an honest amount of money to fix it. You can always find some one to
do work and sighn it off.
But its the owner who has to say do it right. And Pay.
Patrick Thyssen
A&P
I don't carry 100 lbs of tools in my planes and neither do my customers.
--- On *Thu, 8/27/09, Tim Olson /<Tim(at)MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: AOPA magazine
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 10:11 AM
</mc/compose?to=Tim(at)myrv10.com>>
It's not about me.... I'd love to see Scott, Vic, or
anyone who's out really USING their RV-10 for some
good trips be in an article. I write enough of my
own garbage. I just really think that if there's
going to be an article about a homebuilt, it should
show the very good parts about the entire process,
the airplane, and why it's so good. IMHO, homebuilts
have the best potential to be very very safe planes,
especially when they're cared for by the person who
is really in love with their creation. As I lease
this Cherokee I'm continually annoyed by the concept
that if I could only dig in and do all the work on it
without such restriction, I could correct so many
deficiencies in safety. Under the cowl that plane
is a mess, compared to the average RV-10, yet it's
still airworthy once it's in the hands of an A&P
with a pen. So we have opportunities to really
have a world where mechanical issues are just not
really existent on any real level...because we
are the builder...we are the repairman.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Miller John wrote:
>
</mc/compose?to=gengrumpy(at)aol.com>>
>
> AOPA should have done the article on Tim.......
>
> And wonder if Peeler got a repairman's certificate as well?
>
> grumpy
> N184JM
>
> do not archive
>
> On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
>>
</mc/compose?to=Tim(at)myrv10.com>>
>>
>> I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time
>> or skills". I mean, I had a 2 and 4 year old kid to raise, and
>> I took the time. I also didn't have any prior airplane building
>> experience, and experimental planes are for EDUCATION and
>> recreation....so you're supposed to LEARN the skills along
>> the way. So to me, it's a cop out when someone just
>> says they're too busy or don't know how. There are people
>> that take 1 year, and people that take 6 or 10 years to
>> complete their homebuilt...and most of them can then
>> take the pride that they indeed did build it.
>>
>> Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where someone
>> said that they didn't build their plane, and that now they
>> have some maintenance they need to do, but they don't know
>> how to do it. And, they didn't really want to take things
>> apart very far to get to the parts in question. I pondered
>> that for a minute....now, not only did the guy buy the
>> plane, but he doesn't have the ambition to learn and take
>> it apart to do proper maintenance and wants to slide through
>> as simple as possible on that, too. What a shame. Wouldn't
>> it be better to grab the plans and tear into it, and
>> learn about how the plane is built at least? What a
>> shame, the level of concern we sometimes show for gathering
>> knowledge.
>>
>> To me, I was happy to see RV-10's held in high regard by
>> AOPA's magazine, but I really think they went down the
>> wrong path using an example of the plane that wasn't
>> being flown by the actual builder. It's nice press
>> coverage, but really, it's a homebuilt plane, and
>> it would be nice if an honest to goodness homebuilder
>> could share their even greater joy and regard for the
>> process, and how much it enriched their life and experience.
>> Not knocking anyone in particular with that...it's just
>> that really, it's a nice plane and all, but it's the
>> complete understanding, attention to detail, ultra
>> care in maintenance and quality, and that sort of thing
>> that sets us apart. The plane itself can be far better
>> than most certified planes, simply due to the fact that
>> an honest to goodness homebuilder "Repairman" can
>> do improvements that FAA regs would handicap them
>> from being able to accomplish if it were certified...at
>> least without tons of paperwork.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> Dave Saylor wrote:
>>> >>Peeler, a physician, said he doesn’t have the time or skills
to build an airplane like the RV–10, which requires at least 2,000
hours for a veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies
with the letter and spirit of the regulations by only using his
aircraft for private, noncommercial purposes and hiring professional
mechanics to perform the required inspections.
>>> “I’m not the builder of this airplane and I don’t pretend to
be,” he said.<<
>>>
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=430WP
>>> He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert,
and had his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the
8130-12. He may have some 'splain'n to do...
>>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:50 PM, <pilotdds(at)aol.com
</mc/compose?to=pilotdds(at)aol.com> <mailto:pilotdds(at)aol.com
</mc/compose?to=pilotdds(at)aol.com>>> wrote:
>>> Nice RV-10 write up in the Aopa magazine-interesting comment
re oil
>>> temps
>>> Dave Saylor
>>> AirCrafters LLC
>>> 140 Aviation Way
>>> Watsonville, CA 95076
>>> 831-722-9141 Shop
>>> 831-750-0284 Cell
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-L; - MATRONICS
WEB FORUMS -*http://ww=======================
* <http://forums.matronics.com>
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:43 am Post subject: AOPA magazine |
|
|
Dr. Peeler holds a recent Commercial with Instrument ticket and has
authorizations for TBMs and T-33 but doesn't show a Repairman cert for
his fine AOPA magazined Raddatz built aircraft. This is similar to
Scott Gustafson's and ten other Raddatz builds that are flying. With
the final interpretation about to be chiseled in granite by the Fed, the
51% rule is allowing many RV-10s built by Professionals to be purchased
and flown by individuals of means and the passion to join this group of
flying RV-10's. As Tony Soprano would say on the subject of caring not
in the feeding a maintenance of such birds.... Forgetaboutit. There are
many who say they did the work of others or color their prose a bit to
get the airworthiness.
It was light years ago that a ragtag group of Yahoo fans migrated here
in hopes of a builder forum for RV-10 builders.
Our insurance pool will soon be made up of the wide swath of interested
RV-10 operators (some not builders). Unless an insurance company
creates a better financial deal for an improved gene pool of "builder"
aircraft, we become a product of our own success with well financed Dr.
Peeler's of the RV-10 community.
AOPA reported in the article 100 completed and another 1000 sold. My
numbers are just a bit off that projection. Flying 128/ Sold 983 leaving
755 of us out in the cold lusting after the first group that's flying
with all those stories and romantic getaways.
I concur that AOPA and EAA should both do an article on the raising and
feeding of the Olson clan while completing N104CD. Can anyone trump
Tim's accomplishments on the RV-10?
John
--
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2870
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:18 am Post subject: AOPA magazine |
|
|
You guys....I just write a lot. Really, I need no big
recognition or attention. It's nice, the compliments,
but there are plenty of others out there who have just
as much fun and excitement and experience. Many of them
even have more hair. So I don't need to be a huge
focus of media for any specific reasons...but thanks
for the nice words.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
John Cox wrote:
[quote]
Dr. Peeler holds a recent Commercial with Instrument ticket and has
authorizations for TBMs and T-33 but doesn't show a Repairman cert for
his fine AOPA magazined Raddatz built aircraft. This is similar to
Scott Gustafson's and ten other Raddatz builds that are flying. With
the final interpretation about to be chiseled in granite by the Fed, the
51% rule is allowing many RV-10s built by Professionals to be purchased
and flown by individuals of means and the passion to join this group of
flying RV-10's. As Tony Soprano would say on the subject of caring not
in the feeding a maintenance of such birds.... Forgetaboutit. There are
many who say they did the work of others or color their prose a bit to
get the airworthiness.
It was light years ago that a ragtag group of Yahoo fans migrated here
in hopes of a builder forum for RV-10 builders.
Our insurance pool will soon be made up of the wide swath of interested
RV-10 operators (some not builders). Unless an insurance company
creates a better financial deal for an improved gene pool of "builder"
aircraft, we become a product of our own success with well financed Dr.
Peeler's of the RV-10 community.
AOPA reported in the article 100 completed and another 1000 sold. My
numbers are just a bit off that projection. Flying 128/ Sold 983 leaving
755 of us out in the cold lusting after the first group that's flying
with all those stories and romantic getaways.
I concur that AOPA and EAA should both do an article on the raising and
feeding of the Olson clan while completing N104CD. Can anyone trump
Tim's accomplishments on the RV-10?
John
--
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Dick Sipp
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Hope, MI
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:45 am Post subject: AOPA magazine |
|
|
And then there is the story told to me by an Oshkosh judge; they were
looking at a Lancair IV that was under consideration for a top award. When
they asked the
owner to un cowl the airplane it became apparent that he was not sure how to
do it.
He was dropped from consideration for the award.
Dick Sipp
---
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rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:10 am Post subject: AOPA magazine |
|
|
Tim;
Maybe you write a lot, in my case it's motivational with places to go and
mostly responses to most people on and off list. I think what most of us are
saying is there is far more benefit to having a person who has done quite a
lot for the RV-10 community than the poor choice that was used. Let me give
you an example- Jason Paur wrote an article on Van, Having you in there
would have been a great benefit to readers to see the other side to the
article- you are a perfect candidate to show that the RV-10 is meant to be
built by a unqualified candidate initially with a 2 and 4 year who found
time and the necessary skills to complete and fly the plane throughout the
country at that.
Pascal
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:10 AM
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: AOPA magazine
[quote]
You guys....I just write a lot. Really, I need no big
recognition or attention. It's nice, the compliments,
but there are plenty of others out there who have just
as much fun and excitement and experience. Many of them
even have more hair. So I don't need to be a huge
focus of media for any specific reasons...but thanks
for the nice words.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
John Cox wrote:
>
>
> Dr. Peeler holds a recent Commercial with Instrument ticket and has
> authorizations for TBMs and T-33 but doesn't show a Repairman cert for
> his fine AOPA magazined Raddatz built aircraft. This is similar to
> Scott Gustafson's and ten other Raddatz builds that are flying. With
> the final interpretation about to be chiseled in granite by the Fed, the
> 51% rule is allowing many RV-10s built by Professionals to be purchased
> and flown by individuals of means and the passion to join this group of
> flying RV-10's. As Tony Soprano would say on the subject of caring not
> in the feeding a maintenance of such birds.... Forgetaboutit. There are
> many who say they did the work of others or color their prose a bit to
> get the airworthiness.
>
> It was light years ago that a ragtag group of Yahoo fans migrated here
> in hopes of a builder forum for RV-10 builders.
>
> Our insurance pool will soon be made up of the wide swath of interested
> RV-10 operators (some not builders). Unless an insurance company
> creates a better financial deal for an improved gene pool of "builder"
> aircraft, we become a product of our own success with well financed Dr.
> Peeler's of the RV-10 community.
>
> AOPA reported in the article 100 completed and another 1000 sold. My
> numbers are just a bit off that projection. Flying 128/ Sold 983 leaving
> 755 of us out in the cold lusting after the first group that's flying
> with all those stories and romantic getaways.
>
> I concur that AOPA and EAA should both do an article on the raising and
> feeding of the Olson clan while completing N104CD. Can anyone trump
> Tim's accomplishments on the RV-10?
>
> John
>
> --
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:15 am Post subject: AOPA magazine |
|
|
Sounds like the FAA is doing what any bureaucracy does. Whenever anyone
bends the (rule) fence. Instead of addressing the offenders directly , their
time tested response is build a bigger fence
--
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rene(at)felker.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:16 am Post subject: AOPA magazine |
|
|
..... Flying 128/ Sold 983 leaving 755......
Looks like a typo, I think you meant 228 flying and that is 28 above what
Vans shows. I am guessing that your number is more accurate since Vans only
reports what they are told by the builders and not all builders tell Vans
that they are flying.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
--
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msausen
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:38 am Post subject: AOPA magazine |
|
|
Ya guys, no embarrassing Tim lest he take his website offline ala Checkoway. Of course Dan forgot about a little something called the Internet Archive. As the kids of today are learning, once on the Internet, it's there forever.
Michael
--
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1700
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:18 pm Post subject: AOPA magazine |
|
|
Or the mechanically capable owner that is able to find an amenable A&P
to supervise properly restoring the aircraft to what it should be.
I do carry 30-40lbs of tools on most flights, more if planning to do
inspection or repair.
Kelly
A&P/IA
Patrick Thyssen wrote:
| Quote: | Tim,
Maybe it's the owner who wants their plane to look like shit and not
pay an honest amount of money to fix it. You can always find some one to
do work and sighn it off.
But its the owner who has to say do it right. And Pay.
Patrick Thyssen
A&P
I don't carry 100 lbs of tools in my planes and neither do my customers.
|
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1700
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:38 pm Post subject: AOPA magazine |
|
|
Reminder how to find the old Checkoway site would be nice. I recall
several things that I would like to refresh on.
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
[quote]
Ya guys, no embarrassing Tim lest he take his website offline ala Checkoway. Of course Dan forgot about a little something called the Internet Archive. As the kids of today are learning, once on the Internet, it's there forever.
Michael
--
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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