Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - SV: SV: SV: Picture of fillet

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

SV: SV: SV: Picture of fillet

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> KIS-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

hans-chr.erstad(at)c2i.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:33 pm Post subject: SV: SV: SV: Picture of fillet

Hello Mark



It was sad to hear about the crash of the TR-4



Thanks for giving comments on the wing fairing and landing gear position.



I am not looking for shorter landings, as I think I land shorter than I take

off, with the prop I have

I am looking for consitently good landings.  The wing fairings may be a help

(and Julians statement was that it was a great help), and a better gear

position should also help.



On the subject of gear position; Ralf showed me the Stinton book and on page

373 Stinton state that the nose wheel should have between 6 and 15 % of the

total weight.  With the main gear at STA 73.5 the nose gear takes about 23%.

To get the load down to 15% I calculate I will have to move the main gir to

STA 70!  I don't know if it is advicable to tilt the legs that much forward.

(But also on this subject, I don't know what autority Stinton is!)



But, I will rather use the time flying. I had a grat trip to Germany at the

weekend - as Ralf posted picture of.  



Regards, Hans Christian

-----Opprinnelig melding-----

Fra: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com] På vegne av Mark Kettering

Sendt: 16. juli 2010 18:01

Til: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Emne: Re: SV: SV: Picture of fillet






Hello Hans,



I also don't like to fly in the prestall buffeting or wallowing.  I think

this gives me a warning that helps keep me at a safe margin above stall

speed.



I also do not know if better wing root fairings will help reduce this.  At

times these sort of detail things are very hard to predict.  If you do not

mind spending the time and effort, give them a try.  They do look good!  I

think they could slightly reduce cruise drag.  If they reduce or eliminate

the prestall buffeting I think that would not be a good thing but then you

can add stall strips if needed.



If you are trying to reduced landing distance I would try some other things

first.  I think the flaps would be more effective if deflected up to 45

degrees.  Not only will this increase the lift but it will also increase

drag and slightly lower angle of attack.  This should allow slight better

approaches at a slightly lower speed.  Next I would try to improve the

brakes if they are not perfectly effective.



If you are really into changing things a much larger change would be the

addition of a belly flap under the fuselage that extends from the flap on

one side to the flap on the other side.  If you are really up for a big

change I would think about replacing the flaps with split flaps.  Split

flaps actually are more effective providing lift and higher lift to drag

than plain (like we have) flaps and single slotted flaps.  Split (or maybe

even zap) flaps would have been my choice if I designed a plane like this.



Mark



--

- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

mantafs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:22 pm Post subject: SV: SV: SV: Picture of fillet

Hello Hans,



If your inconsistency landing is before you touch down then moving the gear location will not help.  There are two or three minor design issues that may be causing pretouch down problem.  The first and largest issue is the control harmony.  The pitch forces are too light and the roll forces are too heavy in relation to the pitch force.  The most simple way to reduce this problem some is to increase the pitch force by extending the elevator about 2+ inches in cord.  The second would be to increase the movement of the elevator for a given stick movement.  Keep in mind that you fly a plane with control force not control position.  The third would be to reduce the ratio on the ailerons.  The design of the stick on both the TR1 and TR4 actually makes for more leverage on the elevator and less on the ailerons.  Ideally this would be reversed and then it would help lighten the aileron force and firm up the elevator force.



The second area you may want to look into is control friction and play.  The less friction and play you have in the system the better.  Scott went to all ball bearings in his control system.



A third area that causes some more pilot effort when landing is the slightly higher span loading of the TR1.  This is best solved with piloting methods.  Some like to keep a bit of power through the flair.  I prefer to add a small burst of power at the flair to reduce the rate of decent just at the flair.  Another method is to hold just a bit more speed and trade this speed for reduced rate of decent right at the flair.  Practice all and do what works best for you but keep in mind if you use the keep a bit of power method you may not have that in an engine out situation.



I am a big fan of Stinton.  I agree with his gear placement but keep in mind the main requirement for the main gear is not the weight on the nose gear but the tail down force needed to rotate.  Once the main gear is set from that requirement then you place the nose gear to get the 6 to 15%.  Of course this is not possible on many single engine planes since the nose is not that long and there is a prop in the way so you can not place the nose gear so far forward.



Good to hear you had a great trip!  Wish I was there.



Mark



 	  Quote: 	
		  

I am not looking for shorter landings, as I think I land shorter than I take

off, with the prop I have

I am looking for consistently good landings.  The wing fairings may be a help

(and Julians statement was that it was a great help), and a better gear

position should also help.



On the subject of gear position; Ralf showed me the Stinton book and on page

373 Stinton state that the nose wheel should have between 6 and 15 % of the

total weight.  With the main gear at STA 73.5 the nose gear takes about 23%.

To get the load down to 15% I calculate I will have to move the main gir to

STA 70!  I don't know if it is advicable to tilt the legs that much forward.

(But also on this subject, I don't know what autority Stinton is!)



But, I will rather use the time flying. I had a grat trip to Germany at the

weekend - as Ralf posted picture of.  



Regards, Hans Christian

- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> KIS-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum