Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Aileron/Elervator Trim ..

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Aileron/Elervator Trim ..

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> KIS-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:45 am Post subject: Aileron/Elervator Trim ..

G'Day Guys ,

                         Just adding 2 bobs worth here for the mix ....  My 

elevator has a rather Large Pitch Trim Tab i think ( 18 inch length) 

.allen electric ..works nice and quick in the circuit ....but during 

xcrountry its too aggressive whic results in overshooting fine adjustments 

.. Have purchased a motor speed controller that i have yet to wire in but 

think i have a fix there ok ... My TR1 is Kit # 80 so one after u Keith ... 

Would  be interested in doing the elevator extension but re working in the 

trim makes for a bigger job ...not sure if others have the same size trim as 

me ..?  ( and anyway can't hold my nose wheel off during flare with my 

elevator)



Aileron Trim is by way of an electric Trim tab too.... never needed during 

fuel use ...or with/without passenger ... except just one time i had a BIG 

passenger , and had to use it to pick the wing up ...but that was just one 

time  ..  would be nice to set the control forces to be even ... but bit 

tricky to do with the large acreage Ailerons i think ..



Rudder wise i have just a small bent piece of alloy glued to the trailing 

edge that works ok for cruise ..not pretty but very common hey ...



Graham



,

---

- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:51 am Post subject: Aileron/Elervator Trim ..

8/15/2010



Hello Graham, You wrote:



1) "( and anyway can't hold my nose wheel off during flare with my 

elevator)"



Is this inability to hold the nose wheel off the runway surface during the 

flare itself or immediately after the main gear have touched the runway?



If  this inability is after the main landing gear has touched down have you 

considered tilting the main landing gear forward with a wedge between the 

flat top of the main gear assembly and the fuselage bottom?



2) "Would  be interested in doing the elevator extension but re working in 

the trim makes for a bigger job"



Do you think that a servo tab would help? See here:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servo_tab



2) "Rudder wise i have just a small bent piece of alloy glued to the 

trailing edge that works ok for cruise ..not pretty but very common hey ..."



For right rudder trim at cruise I added a third extension spring going 

forward from the right rudder pedal to the aft side of the fire wall. Part 

of the connection of this spring is a ty wrap that allows me (on the ground) 

to tweak the adjustment.



'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to 

gather and understand knowledge."



==========================================================

---

- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:41 pm Post subject: Aileron/Elervator Trim ..

As I remember Rich's factory airplane had an aluminum extention rivited onto the trailing edge of the trim tab to make it more effective, but that's not going make the elevator any more effective.  

  

 I think if I had a factory sized elevator I would concider bonding on a strip of 1/16th inch phenolic sheet to the bottom trailing edge of the elevator to add about 2 inchs to the chord of the elevator and trim tab.  Glass it on with 1 ply and with some body work and a respray you'd bearly notice it.  That would give a more effective elevator, increase the pitch control forces, and give a wider trim range.    

  

 I still haven't done any low speed testing to see how my larger elevator works.  Still waiting to get my exhaust back and hopefully solve my hot oil issue.

  

 Scott



--- On Sun, 8/15/10, bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:



 [quote]

From: bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net>

Subject: Aileron/Elervator Trim ..

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com, gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au

Date: Sunday, August 15, 2010, 9:50 AM



 --> KIS-List message posted by: <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)>



8/15/2010



Hello Graham, You wrote:



1) "( and anyway can't hold my nose wheel off during flare with my elevator)"



Is this inability to hold the nose wheel off the runway surface during the flare itself or immediately after the main gear have touched the runway?



If  this inability is after the main landing gear has touched down have you considered tilting the main landing gear forward with a wedge between the flat top of the main gear assembly and the fuselage bottom?



2) "Would  be interested in doing the elevator extension but re working in the trim makes for a bigger job"



Do you think that a servo tab would help? See here:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servo_tab



2) "Rudder wise i have just a small bent piece of alloy glued to the trailing edge that works ok for cruise ..not pretty but very common hey ..."



For right rudder trim at cruise I added a third extension spring going forward from the right rudder pedal to the aft side of the fire wall. Part of the connection of this spring is a ty wrap that allows me (on the ground) to tweak the adjustment.



'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge."



========

---

- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:06 am Post subject: Aileron/Elervator Trim ..

Not thinking Trim Tab size is going to help with  elevator effectiveness . but just commenting that mine is quite aggressive and may be a larger size than maybe standard ..!?



Re Elevator extension ..was thinking about the same way as u describe but worried i could end up with an ..over-over.. sized trim Tab ..!! (already too sensitive when 'trimming-out' in cruise ..)



Busting to see how ur speeds come out when u get to let her go ..!!!  ( oh and what ur stall speed is down to with the extra span and lighter weight ?) .. and  guess u are too ..!!!



Graham

- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

Flyinisfun(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:41 am Post subject: Aileron/Elervator Trim ..

Hi Scott and Graham, 

  

 I extended the elevator by about 1 1/2" and brought the trailing edge to a  knife edge.  I had a null spot in neutral position and flew for some time  with about a quarter of an inch offset in the trim tab to give me stick  pressure.  I realized that the knife edge was a problem, causing the null  of about 1" deflection before I got any real movement in the plane's attitude  and any feel in the stick.  I sanded off the knife edge until I had  about an 1/8" blunt edge and believe it or not I now have a feel in the  stick.

  

 If Rich is watching this and OC would you agree this is a realistic  evaluation?  I can now feel the change of the elevator upon immediate  movement and have not done anything else to the plane that would have any effect  on the C.G.  I've thought about sanding a little more off but maybe  not.

  

        Jesse  Wright 

  [quote][b]

- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:57 am Post subject: Aileron/Elervator Trim ..

Hi Jesse,

                 Thanks for reporting ur experience with ur elevator mod .. I have wondered a lot about how changing the elevator trailing edge from the original stepped shape to a knife edge would work out .... would be good to hear what others have experienced as well ..



Graham

- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:04 am Post subject: Aileron/Elervator Trim ..

8/17/2010



Hello Jesse, You wrote:



1) "If Rich is watching this and OC would you agree this is a realistic 

evaluation?"



Yes. There is extensive experience available about the effects of creating a 

blunt trailing edge on a control surface. Here is just one extract via 

google:



http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/aircraft-design-aerodynamics-new-technology/7123-blunt-trailing-edge-question.html



2) "I've thought about sanding a little more off but maybe  not."



Remember the old adage that goes: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." There 

are some structual considerations in sanding more off the trailing edge.



'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to 

gather and understand knowledge."



=======================================================

---

- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> KIS-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum