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landing gear

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sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:05 pm Post subject: landing gear

Hello all,

  

 Does anyone remember who made the landing gear?  Was is Grove down in San Diego?

  

 My landing gear was not bent correctly originally and I'm probably going to pull it off and have it adjusted.  Right now the camber is off vertical by about 7 degrees and its wearing the inner part of the tire really fast.  

  

 Scott



         [quote][b]

bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:28 am Post subject: landing gear

10/4/2010



Hello Scott, I am pretty sure that it was not Grove. When I converted my KIS 

TR-1 from Matco to Grove wheels and brakes I had to make extensive grinding 

changes to the bottom end of the gear to make the Grove brake assembly fit.



Both Grove and Aircraft Spruce will sell you axle shims that will permit you 

to change the camber. See  here:



http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/axleShims.php



http://www.groveaircraft.com/accessories.html



Seven degrees sounds like a lot to change all at once, but you can stack the 

shims to get varying results. Playing around with the shims would be a bit 

less drastic than pulling and bending the gear.



Why don't you call Robbie Grove at 1-619-562-1268 and discuss the situation 

with him -- he has always been very helpful.



'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to 

gather and understand knowledge."



=====================================================

---

richard_trickel(at)yahoo.
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:24 am Post subject: landing gear

Scott

 The gear were made by several suppliers untill Lyle started doing them.  He did the most amount.  Possibly you could just find someone to bend it on a press for adjustment or use some shims like OC suggested.

 Rich



--- On Mon, 10/4/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com>

Subject: landing gear

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, October 4, 2010, 4:58 AM



      Hello all,

  

 Does anyone remember who made the landing gear?  Was is Grove down in San Diego?

  

 My landing gear was not bent correctly originally and I'm probably going to pull it off and have it adjusted.  Right now the camber is off vertical by about 7 degrees and its wearing the inner part of the tire really fast.  

  

 Scott



 	  Quote: 	
		  



=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com

llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	


         [quote][b]

galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:39 am Post subject: landing gear

Shims will probably be cheaper than a new gear. Even with a new gear, you may still need a shim or two to get the alignment right in both toe and camber.

  

 Galin

 On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 7:18 AM, Richard Trickel <richard_trickel(at)yahoo.com (richard_trickel(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 [quote]     Scott

 The gear were made by several suppliers untill Lyle started doing them.  He did the most amount.  Possibly you could just find someone to bend it on a press for adjustment or use some shims like OC suggested.

 Rich  



--- On Mon, 10/4/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com (sstearns2(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   

From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com (sstearns2(at)yahoo.com)>



 Subject: landing gear



 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)



Date: Monday, October 4, 2010, 4:58 AM



       Hello all,

  

 Does anyone remember who made the landing gear?  Was is Grove down in San Diego?

  

 My landing gear was not bent correctly originally and I'm probably going to pull it off and have it adjusted.  Right now the camber is off vertical by about 7 degrees and its wearing the inner part of the tire really fast.  

    

 Scott

 	  Quote: 	
		  



=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com

llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	
  

 

 	  Quote: 	
		  



et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




[b]

mantafs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:00 am Post subject: landing gear

Hello Scott,



When I bought my TR1 with the bent gear, Vance straightened it using a press.  The gear yields at under 4 Gs so can be bent with about 3 tons depending on geometry.  You should be able to find one around to use.  If not Harbor Freight will have their 12 ton press for $89.99 with a coupon from 28 to 31 Oct.



Mark

--

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:37 am Post subject: landing gear

Hi OC,

  

 The problem with shims is that that the bolt holes will not align.  It would work with 1/2 a degree or one, but not seven.  They are way off.  I have some 5 degree shims I got from summit racing, but the bolt holes will never be right.

  

 I've gone round and round with this in my head and I think just pulling the gear and bending it to the correct angle is the cleanest thing to do.  

  

 Scott



--- On Mon, 10/4/10, bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:



 [quote]

From: bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net>

Subject: Re: landing gear

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com, sstearns2(at)yahoo.com

Date: Monday, October 4, 2010, 4:26 AM



 --> KIS-List message posted by: <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)>



10/4/2010



Hello Scott, I am pretty sure that it was not Grove. When I converted my KIS TR-1 from Matco to Grove wheels and brakes I had to make extensive grinding changes to the bottom end of the gear to make the Grove brake assembly fit.



Both Grove and Aircraft Spruce will sell you axle shims that will permit you to change the camber. See  here:



http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/axleShims.php



http://www.groveaircraft.com/accessories.html



Seven degrees sounds like a lot to change all at once, but you can stack the shims to get varying results.  Playing around with the shims would be a bit less drastic than pulling and bending the gear.



Why don't you call Robbie Grove at 1-619-562-1268 and discuss the situation with him -- he has always been very helpful.



'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge."



============================

---

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:39 am Post subject: landing gear

Hey Mark,

  

 I've been thinking about trying to do it myself, but what do you bolt the gear down to?   I don't want to bend the center section.  

  

 Does it need to be heat treated after bending?

  

 Scott



--- On Mon, 10/4/10, Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net> wrote:



 [quote]

From: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: landing gear

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, October 4, 2010, 6:59 AM



 --> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>



Hello Scott,



When I bought my TR1 with the bent gear, Vance straightened it using a press.  The gear yields at under 4 Gs so can be bent with about 3 tons depending on geometry.  You should be able to find one around to use.  If not Harbor Freight will have their 12 ton press for $89.99 with a coupon from 28 to 31 Oct.



Mark

--

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:42 am Post subject: landing gear

Hi Galin,

  

 I'm not looking at getter a whole new gear, just increasing the bends in the one I have.  I agree it's normal to have to shim the gear a little, but 7 degrees is way too much to shim.

  

 Scott



--- On Mon, 10/4/10, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>

Subject: Re: landing gear

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, October 4, 2010, 6:30 AM



  Shims will probably be cheaper than a new gear. Even with a new gear, you may still need a shim or two to get the alignment right in both toe and camber.

  

 Galin

 On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 7:18 AM, Richard Trickel <richard_trickel(at)yahoo.com (richard_trickel(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		       Scott

 The gear were made by several suppliers untill Lyle started doing them.  He did the most amount.  Possibly you could just find someone to bend it on a press for adjustment or use some shims like OC suggested.

 Rich  



--- On Mon, 10/4/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com (sstearns2(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   

From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com (sstearns2(at)yahoo.com)>



 Subject: landing gear



 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)



Date: Monday, October 4, 2010, 4:58 AM



       Hello all,

  

 Does anyone remember who made the landing gear?  Was is Grove down in San Diego?

  

 My landing gear was not bent correctly originally and I'm probably going to pull it off and have it adjusted.  Right now the camber is off vertical by about 7 degrees and its wearing the inner part of the tire really fast.  

  

 Scott

 	  Quote: 	
		  



=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com

llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	
  

 

 	  Quote: 	
		  



et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	








=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com

llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	


         [quote][b]

mantafs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:02 am Post subject: landing gear

Hey Scott,



Vance did not anneal before bending or reheat treat after bending.  I do not think the aluminum will need to be reheat treated.



I am not sure how Vance rebent my gear.  I kind of assume he used a big V block of sorts and then pressed the corner he wanted sharper into the V.  If I recall correctly his press was maybe 20 tons but he said it did not take much.  The larger the V block the less the force required.  Have you seen the large hydraulic pipe benders at Harbor Freight?  They use rollers instead of a V block but the idea is the same.



Mark



--

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:20 am Post subject: landing gear

Hey Mark,

  

 Wouldn't it be nice if Vance were still around.  

  

 So I would press the bend of the gear down into the V block?  Were could I get a V block or would I have to make one?  

  

 Scott



--- On Mon, 10/4/10, Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net> wrote:



 [quote]

From: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: landing gear

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, October 4, 2010, 8:00 AM



 --> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>



Hey Scott,



Vance did not anneal before bending or reheat treat after bending.  I do not think the aluminum will need to be reheat treated.



I am not sure how Vance rebent my gear.  I kind of assume he used a big V block of sorts and then pressed the corner he wanted sharper into the V.  If I recall correctly his press was maybe 20 tons but he said it did not take much.  The larger the V block the less the force required.  Have you seen the large hydraulic pipe benders at Harbor Freight?  They use rollers instead of a V block but the idea is the same.



Mark



--

bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:01 am Post subject: landing gear

10/4/2010



Hello Scott, If you are determined to bend your own I bet you could rig this 

to do the bending:



http://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-hydraulic-pipe-bender-32888.html



I still think that it is worth a phone call to Robbie Grove to get his 

input. He may even be able to provide you some undrilled, one piece shims 

that could solve your problems. Why not pick his brain -- even if you decide 

to bend the gear yourself he may have some pertinent advice.



Please read again what 'OC' Baker Says.



'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to 

gather and understand knowledge."



=====================================================

---

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:34 am Post subject: landing gear

Hi OC,

  

 I don't think shims will work with this large of an angle since the bolt holes will not line up.  What I would need is new axles machined with 7 degrees of negative camber, but I think the best thing to do is just to get the gear bent correctly.

  

 I should give the grove guy a call and see what options he comes up with.  I did email grove to ask how much it would be to adjust the camber and they want $300 which seems insane for what would probably be 30 minutes of work for them at most.  That was just from a sales drone though, maybe Robbie wouuld be more reasonable.

  

 Thanks,

 Scott



--- On Mon, 10/4/10, bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:



 [quote]

From: bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net>

Subject: Re: landing gear

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com, sstearns2(at)yahoo.com

Date: Monday, October 4, 2010, 9:00 AM



 --> KIS-List message posted by: <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)>



10/4/2010



Hello Scott, If you are determined to bend your own I bet you could rig this to do the bending:



http://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-hydraulic-pipe-bender-32888.html



I still think that it is worth a phone call to Robbie Grove to get his input. He may even be able to provide you some undrilled, one piece shims that could solve your problems. Why not pick his brain -- even if you decide to bend the gear yourself he may have some pertinent advice.



Please read again what 'OC' Baker Says.



'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand  knowledge."



============================

---

lgdavid(at)roadrunner.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:10 am Post subject: landing gear

Hi Scott, why not send it up to Lyle.  While he is no  longer just over the hill, he is only up in Idaho now.   Larry

On 10/4/2010 5:18:32 AM, Richard Trickel (richard_trickel(at)yahoo.com (richard_trickel(at)yahoo.com))  wrote:

[quote] Scott

 The gear were made by several suppliers untill Lyle  started doing them. 

 He did the most amount. Possibly you could just  find someone to bend it on

 a press for adjustment or use some shims like  OC suggested.

 Rich

 

 --- On Mon, 10/4/10, Scott Stearns  <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com (sstearns2(at)yahoo.com)>  wrote:

 

 

 From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com (sstearns2(at)yahoo.com)>

 Subject:  landing gear

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

 Date:  Monday, October 4, 2010, 4:58 AM

    	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

lgdavid(at)roadrunner.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:10 am Post subject: landing gear

Scott, I think the Chapter 723 hanger has Vance's old  press.  Come take a look.  It is back in the tool crib in the back  corner.  Larry

On 10/4/2010 6:59:47 AM, Mark Kettering (mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)) wrote:

[quote]  --> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>

  

 Hello Scott,

 

 When I bought my TR1 with the bent gear,  Vance straightened it using a

 press.  The gear yields at under 4 Gs  so can be bent with about 3 tons

 depending on geometry.  You should  be able to find one around to use.  If

 not Harbor Freight will have  their 12 ton press for $89.99 with a coupon

 from 28 to 31 Oct.

  

 Mark

 

 

 --

mantafs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:51 am Post subject: landing gear

Hi Scott,



If the gear leg will fit between the plates then the pipe bender may be the best way to go.  The V block does not need to be an actual V.  Only the top corners of the V are actually used.  So any two parallel supports 8 inches apart would work.  But keep in mind they are forced apart when pressing. You can search around for some sort of scrap that would work.  You could also get two plates, drill two holes in each and put in two pins to support the gear similar to the pipe bender.  Or you can cut and weld some metal together.  Depending, you may also want to put a plate along the gear so you do not scratch the gear.



You could also search around your area for a iron or metal working shop that is set up to bend things.  I know of a good one in Zhuhai that would do it for 10 yuan.  If you brought it here I could also help you out.



Another idea is bolt the gear to the floor.  Then get or make a strong and long lever arm with fork at the end.  Put the fork over the end of the gear and give it a careful yank. A quick rough calculation makes me think that you only need about 1500 ft-lbs to bend it.  So given your 200 lbs of weight you would need about an 8 foot lever arm.



Or if you were a real hacker like me, find some guard rail or other closely spaced posts and put the gear between them to hold it.  Then get a section of thick wall box section tube and put it over the end of the gear and pull it into the right angle.  Use scraps of metal and wood to pad and force the bend where you want it.



I also miss having Vance around.  I really enjoyed taking shop or anything with him.  The best part of the day at High Tec was when Vance would stop by for some engineering bsing and bring donut holes.  I am sure Rich also misses his help, insight and company.



Mark 



--

richard_trickel(at)yahoo.
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:41 am Post subject: landing gear

Gang

 Ahh yes the donut holes and coffee.  I really do miss Vance and his ideas and help.  Not only inovative but the best of friends

 Rich



--- On Mon, 10/4/10, Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net> wrote:



 [quote]

From: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: landing gear

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, October 4, 2010, 6:31 PM



 --> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>



Hi Scott,



If the gear leg will fit between the plates then the pipe bender may be the best way to go.  The V block does not need to be an actual V.  Only the top corners of the V are actually used.  So any two parallel supports 8 inches apart would work.  But keep in mind they are forced apart when pressing. You can search around for some sort of scrap that would work.  You could also get two plates, drill two holes in each and put in two pins to support the gear similar to the pipe bender.  Or you can cut and weld some metal together.  Depending, you may also want to put a plate along the gear so you do not scratch the gear.



You could also search around your area for a iron or  metal working shop that is set up to bend things.  I know of a good one in Zhuhai that would do it for 10 yuan.  If you brought it here I could also help you out.



Another idea is bolt the gear to the floor.  Then get or make a strong and long lever arm with fork at the end.  Put the fork over the end of the gear and give it a careful yank. A quick rough calculation makes me think that you only need about 1500 ft-lbs to bend it.  So given your 200 lbs of weight you would need about an 8 foot lever arm.



Or if you were a real hacker like me, find some guard rail or other closely spaced posts and put the gear between them to hold it.  Then get a section of thick wall box section tube and put it over the end of the gear and pull it into the right angle.  Use scraps of metal and wood to pad and force the bend where you want it.



I also miss having Vance around.  I really enjoyed taking shop or  anything with him.  The best part of the day at High Tec was when Vance would stop by for some engineering bsing and bring donut holes.  I am sure Rich also misses his help, insight and company.



Mark 



--

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