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quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com
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 Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:04 pm Post subject: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
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I'm thinking about selling my 1977 Tiger and am wondering what the market will bear these days. The Aircraft history and equipment list is as follows:
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>Approx Airframe TT 2500 hours , 550 SMOH
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>NDH
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>Garmin 430 (Non WAAS)
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>King KX 170B NAVCOM
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>Garmin GTX-327 Transponder
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>Garmin GMA 340 Audio Panel
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>S-TEC 30 w/alt hold (1 year old)
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>GPSS (1 year old)
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>JPI-450 Fuel Flow Indicator (1 year old)
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>New LoPresti Boom Beam landing light System
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>DME
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>New Sensenich Prop
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>Interior Original 5 condition
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>Exterior Original 5 condition
I had a broker look at it and he told me that he thought the fair market value was high 30’s low 40’s! I think one of us is on drugs, I hope it’s not me! Thoughts?
Tom Quinn
249RR
[quote][b]
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Robert.Dwork(at)arbella.c
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:15 pm Post subject: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
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Sounds low, but maybe not by much!
I put my 1974 Traveler, about the same airframe/engine time as yours,
similarly equipped except for the A/P, but new leather interior, on the
market last June. Started at 36k, zero interest until I dropped the
price to 29k, finally sold at that price five months later. Granted,
it's a Traveler, but still.
| Quote: | ____________________________________
Robert B. Dwork | Special Investigative Unit |
Arbella Insurance Group
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dfortnam(at)AOL.COM
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:24 pm Post subject: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
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Hi Tom,
I don't think it's you! Check AOPA V-Ref. I did a quick entry and got $57K. That may be a little optimistic in today's market, but I think you can do better than low $40's. I wish I could buy it!
Doug Fortnam
KASH
NH Flying Association
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flyadive(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:55 pm Post subject: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
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ALL BROKERS are on DRUGS ...And those that use them pay for their drugs.
Barry
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Tom Quinn <quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com (quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com)> wrote:
[quote]
I'm thinking about selling my 1977 Tiger and am wondering what the market will bear these days. The Aircraft history and equipment list is as follows:
Approx Airframe TT 2500 hours , 550 SMOH
NDH
Garmin 430 (Non WAAS)
King KX 170B NAVCOM
Garmin GTX-327 Transponder
Garmin GMA 340 Audio Panel
S-TEC 30 w/alt hold (1 year old)
GPSS (1 year old)
JPI-450 Fuel Flow Indicator (1 year old)
New LoPresti Boom Beam landing light System
DME
New Sensenich Prop
Interior Original 5 condition
Exterior Original 5 condition
I had a broker look at it and he told me that he thought the fair market value was high 30s low 40s! I think one of us is on drugs, I hope its not me! Thoughts?
Tom Quinn
249RR
| Quote: |
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[b]
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:08 pm Post subject: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
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When I was in the broker business, putting both buyer and seller on the ramp looking at the same airplane ..... the seller sees a bar of gold sitting there and the buyer ..... sees a lead bar. You should hear the bickering back and forth!!!! Listening to the conversation was hilarious as each person added and subtracted 'value' to substantiate their viewpoint.
I was spending far too much time for the gains so I just gave it up.
Linn
On 1/7/2011 4:53 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote: [quote]ALL BROKERS are on DRUGS ... And those that use them pay for their drugs.
Barry
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Tom Quinn <quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com (quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
I'm thinking about selling my 1977 Tiger and am wondering what the market will bear these days. The Aircraft history and equipment list is as follows:
Approx Airframe TT 2500 hours , 550 SMOH
NDH
Garmin 430 (Non WAAS)
King KX 170B NAVCOM
Garmin GTX-327 Transponder
Garmin GMA 340 Audio Panel
S-TEC 30 w/alt hold (1 year old)
GPSS (1 year old)
JPI-450 Fuel Flow Indicator (1 year old)
New LoPresti Boom Beam landing light System
DME
New Sensenich Prop
Interior Original 5 condition
Exterior Original 5 condition
I had a broker look at it and he told me that he thought the fair market value was high 30s low 40s! I think one of us is on drugs, I hope its not me! Thoughts?
Tom Quinn
249RR
om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
s.com">http://forums.matronics.com
om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
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JHOSLER(at)epri.com
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:26 pm Post subject: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
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I would say 70K min.
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Quinn
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 4:02 PM
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger
I'm thinking about selling my 1977 Tiger and am wondering what the market will bear these days. The Aircraft history and equipment list is as follows:
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>Approx Airframe TT 2500 hours , 550 SMOH
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>NDH
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>Garmin 430 (Non WAAS)
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>King KX 170B NAVCOM
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>Garmin GTX-327 Transponder
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>Garmin GMA 340 Audio Panel
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>S-TEC 30 w/alt hold (1 year old)
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>GPSS (1 year old)
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>JPI-450 Fuel Flow Indicator (1 year old)
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>New LoPresti Boom Beam landing light System
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>DME
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>New Sensenich Prop
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>Interior Original 5 condition
<![if !supportLists]> <![endif]>Exterior Original 5 condition
I had a broker look at it and he told me that he thought the fair market value was high 30’s low 40’s! I think one of us is on drugs, I hope it’s not me! Thoughts?
Tom Quinn
249RR
[quote][b]
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david555(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:36 pm Post subject: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
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Tom, sounds like a great airplane.
I just sold a higher performance higher cost airplane in order to buy a 79 Cheetah. So I have been on both sides of the fence in the last 30 days.
It is truly a buyers market.
To sell my airplane I answered more questions and responded to so many detailed questions before anyone would even come to look. I have owned and sold many airplanes and never experienced anything like this market. I finally lowered the price significantly and that is what sold the airplane.
When buying the Cheetah, I called the seller and determined if the airplane was truly as advertised, I advised him of my selling experience, He had experience the same. I made an offer that was 20% under VREF and he accepted. I believe I got a great buy, better than I expected. I probably would have paid more, although it might of taken me a couple more weeks to come to that conclusion.
Your plane is Unique, You have great radios and a great autopilot - There is someone who is looking for a good Tiger with an avionics package and an autopilot exactly like you have it.
I believe that you can easily sell it in the high 50's, or low 60's even in this severely depressed market, you just have to find that buyer that is looking for the upgrades that you have. It could take a week or it could take months.
I would strongly advise you to set-up a web site that includes complete spec's, compressions, etc. and tons of photos, it will greatly reduce your wasted time and level of frustration.
Best of luck.
David Boone
---- Tom Quinn <quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I'm thinking about selling my 1977 Tiger and am wondering what the market
will bear these days. The Aircraft history and equipment list is as follows:
. Approx Airframe TT 2500 hours , 550 SMOH
. NDH
. Garmin 430 (Non WAAS)
. King KX 170B NAVCOM
. Garmin GTX-327 Transponder
. Garmin GMA 340 Audio Panel
. S-TEC 30 w/alt hold (1 year old)
. GPSS (1 year old)
. JPI-450 Fuel Flow Indicator (1 year old)
. New LoPresti Boom Beam landing light System
. DME
. New Sensenich Prop
. Interior Original 5 condition
. Exterior Original 5 condition
I had a broker look at it and he told me that he thought the fair market
value was high 30's low 40's! I think one of us is on drugs, I hope it's not
me! Thoughts?
Tom Quinn
249RR
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jamey
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:25 am Post subject: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
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I think David is close and John is likely 10k high. Also important is the history on the engine in terms of hours flown per year since OH, compressions, etc. The original paint/interior can vary a lot depending on hangaring, etc. In this market you can probably get an inexpensive but decent paint and interior redo done in the neighborhood of $15k. Whether this is needed in the near future depends a lot on what “5” means and the buyer. Of course all of this is contingent on the rest of the plane being pretty clean without deferred or mishandled maintenance, corrosion, etc.
Sounds like a nice plane though and sorry to hear you’re having to sell it Tom.
Best,
Jamey
[quote][b]
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flyadive(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:16 pm Post subject: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
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Linn:
Don't tell me that you use drugs... I like you too much even consider that.
Now, if the buyer and seller are face to face why would they need a broker?
Barry
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
[quote] When I was in the broker business, putting both buyer and seller on the ramp looking at the same airplane ..... the seller sees a bar of gold sitting there and the buyer ..... sees a lead bar. You should hear the bickering back and forth!!!! Listening to the conversation was hilarious as each person added and subtracted 'value' to substantiate their viewpoint.
I was spending far too much time for the gains so I just gave it up.
Linn
On 1/7/2011 4:53 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
| Quote: | ALL BROKERS are on DRUGS ... And those that use them pay for their drugs.
Barry
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Tom Quinn <quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com (quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
I'm thinking about selling my 1977 Tiger and am wondering what the market will bear these days. The Aircraft history and equipment list is as follows:
Approx Airframe TT 2500 hours , 550 SMOH
NDH
Garmin 430 (Non WAAS)
King KX 170B NAVCOM
Garmin GTX-327 Transponder
Garmin GMA 340 Audio Panel
S-TEC 30 w/alt hold (1 year old)
GPSS (1 year old)
JPI-450 Fuel Flow Indicator (1 year old)
New LoPresti Boom Beam landing light System
DME
New Sensenich Prop
Interior Original 5 condition
Exterior Original 5 condition
I had a broker look at it and he told me that he thought the fair market value was high 30s low 40s! I think one of us is on drugs, I hope its not me! Thoughts?
Tom Quinn
249RR
om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
s.com">http://forums.matronics.com
om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
| Quote: |
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:30 pm Post subject: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
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On 1/8/2011 5:13 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote: | Quote: | Linn:
Don't tell me that you use drugs... I like you too much even consider that.
|
Nah, I fly to get high!
| Quote: |
Now, if the buyer and seller are face to face why would they need a broker?
|
Well, that only happened a couple of times, and you're right, they could have cut me out of the loop .... but for the most part, I knew either the buyer or seller personally. Doing business with friends was terribly frustrating, and one of the other reasons I quit. Having both available face-to-face to negotiate saved months of emails and stupid questions.
Linn
[quote]
Barry
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | When I was in the broker business, putting both buyer and seller on the ramp looking at the same airplane ..... the seller sees a bar of gold sitting there and the buyer ..... sees a lead bar. You should hear the bickering back and forth!!!! Listening to the conversation was hilarious as each person added and subtracted 'value' to substantiate their viewpoint.
I was spending far too much time for the gains so I just gave it up.
Linn
On 1/7/2011 4:53 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
| Quote: | ALL BROKERS are on DRUGS ... And those that use them pay for their drugs.
Barry
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Tom Quinn <quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com (quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
I'm thinking about selling my 1977 Tiger and am wondering what the market will bear these days. The Aircraft history and equipment list is as follows:
Approx Airframe TT 2500 hours , 550 SMOH
NDH
Garmin 430 (Non WAAS)
King KX 170B NAVCOM
Garmin GTX-327 Transponder
Garmin GMA 340 Audio Panel
S-TEC 30 w/alt hold (1 year old)
GPSS (1 year old)
JPI-450 Fuel Flow Indicator (1 year old)
New LoPresti Boom Beam landing light System
DME
New Sensenich Prop
Interior Original 5 condition
Exterior Original 5 condition
I had a broker look at it and he told me that he thought the fair market value was high 30s low 40s! I think one of us is on drugs, I hope its not me! Thoughts?
Tom Quinn
249RR
om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
s.com">http://forums.matronics.com
om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
s.com">http://forums.matronics.com
om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
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lmassaro
Joined: 28 Sep 2010
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
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Things to consider:
1) Brokers care about one thing and one thing only. Making a sale. They will price it at a level that it would sell quickly so they can take their cut and move on with the minimal amount of work possible. They say they "work for the seller" but IMHO, that's bullsh*t, plain and simple.
2) Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. And keep in mind that paradigm varies from person to person. Some people will see more value in certain aspects (like engine/avionics) where others see more value in "paint, seats, and the pretty stuff".
As an example, I see the A/P as the big selling point as that is probably one of the best improvements one can make on a plane (if you XC alot). Id put a premium on that. Others may not see it as I do.
The broker number sounds low, and the Vref sounds high (in this market). The only way to tell is to list it based on your valuation. As prices have stabilized now, you will get an idea the minute you list it. If the phone doesn't ring, the "market" isn't willing to pay the price listed. If you lower it, and it gets sold, you have found the value of your plane.
The truest method of determining value is how the stock and commodity markets work. More demand (buy orders), prices rise to attract sellers, less demand (more sell orders), prices drop to attract buyers. Equal number of buyer and sellers...Simple yet elegant (when done legally! like the old days)
Lastly, what does a broker do anyway? Take lots of pictures, set up a website as David Boone suggests and provide as much information as humanly possible. That will help prospective buyers sort through the static out there as there are lots of planes on the market these days.
Good luck.
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flyadive(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:34 am Post subject: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
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Hi Linn:
ME TOO!
Love to get high 
Yes, working with "Friends" are difficult. FRUSTRATING! ! !
But that is what friends are all about.
Aviation is all about LEARNING - There are NO STUPID questions.
Only lazy people wanting a simple answer... AND... That is STUPID!
And the question that comes up all too often is: What was the FAA thinking?
Barry
On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>wrote:
[quote] On 1/8/2011 5:13 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
Linn:
Don't tell me that you use drugs... I like you too much even consider
that.
Nah, I fly to get high!
Now, if the buyer and seller are face to face why would they need a
broker?
Well, that only happened a couple of times, and you're right, they could
have cut me out of the loop .... but for the most part, I knew either the
buyer or seller personally. Doing business with friends was terribly
frustrating, and one of the other reasons I quit. Having both available
face-to-face to negotiate saved months of emails and stupid questions.
Linn
Barry
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>wrote:
> When I was in the broker business, putting both buyer and seller on the
> ramp looking at the same airplane ..... the seller sees a bar of gold
> sitting there and the buyer ..... sees a lead bar. You should hear the
> bickering back and forth!!!! Listening to the conversation was hilarious as
> each person added and subtracted 'value' to substantiate their viewpoint
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beltz6
Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Goleta, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
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I too have a '77 Tiger that I've been going back and forth on selling these past few months (mainly due to the fact that a new baby in the house has changed the financial picture). [Sidenote: it was an adoption, and the attorney fees hit us hard - making this more costly than had it not been an adoption.]
Not too dissimilar than Tom's, interestingly enough: 2550 TT, 550 SMOH. Garmin 430 (albeit with WAAS), 340 audio panel, S-TEC 50 autopilot. A Narco Nav-122 and King KY97A serve as #2 radios. Also, there's a powerflow exhaust. The paint job and interior are original. Actually, the plane could really use a paint job. Compressions have always been 78-79 in my 4 years of ownership.
One appraisal service - Aeroprice.com - came in at about $56K. So I think the broker is on drugs.
My mood this week says "keep," and my wife is supportive...so we'll just have to see what pans out.
-glenn
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amdymond(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:22 pm Post subject: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
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I did a multiple regression on Grumman Tigers with data from the September 2010 Trade-a-Plane and Global Plane Search. (OK, so I'm thinking of getting one...). Anyway, I plugged in these numbers to the regression modeland got a price of 57k$. Granted that this is what people were asking but we don't know what they were getting.
Tony
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 7:32 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]Hi Linn:
ME TOO!
Love to get high
Yes, working with "Friends" aredifficult. FRUSTRATING! ! !
But that is what friends are all about.
Aviation is all about LEARNING - There are NO STUPID questions.
Only lazy people wanting a simple answer... AND... That is STUPID!
And the question that comes up all too often is: What was the FAA thinking?
Barry
On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | On 1/8/2011 5:13 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote: | Quote: | Linn:
Don't tell me that you use drugs... I like you too much even consider that.
|
Nah, I fly to get high!
| Quote: |
Now, if the buyer and seller are face to face why would they need a broker?
|
Well, that only happened a couple of times, and you're right, they could have cut me out of the loop .... but for the most part, I knew either the buyer or seller personally. Doing business with friends was terribly frustrating, and one of the other reasons I quit. Having both available face-to-face to negotiate saved months of emails and stupid questions.
Linn
| Quote: |
Barry
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | When I was in the broker business, putting both buyer and seller on the ramp looking at the same airplane .... the seller sees a bar of gold sitting there and the buyer ..... sees a lead bar. You should hear the bickering back and forth!!!! Listening to the conversation was hilarious as each person added and subtracted 'value' to substantiate their viewpoint.
I was spending far too much time for the gains so I just gave it up.
Linn
On 1/7/2011 4:53 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
| Quote: | ALL BROKERS are on DRUGS ... And those that use them pay for their drugs.
Barry
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Tom Quinn <quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com (quinn_tom(at)tqiinc.com)> wrote:
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I'm thinking about selling my 1977 Tiger and am wondering what the market will bear these days. The Aircraft history and equipment list is as follows:
Approx Airframe TT 2500 hours , 550 SMOH
NDH
Garmin 430 (Non WAAS)
King KX 170B NAVCOM
Garmin GTX-327 Transponder
Garmin GMA 340 Audio Panel
S-TEC 30 w/alt hold (1 year old)
GPSS (1 year old)
JPI-450 Fuel Flow Indicator (1 year old)
New LoPresti Boom Beam landing light System
DME
New Sensenich Prop
Interior Original 5 condition
Exterior Original 5 condition
I had a broker look at it and he told me that he thought the fair market value was high 30s low 40s! I think one of us is on drugs, I hope its not me! Thoughts?
Tom Quinn
249RR
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ronmillmancpa(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 pm Post subject: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Ok, but what is an offer on an original, never damaged, 1977 Tiger, with original paint,
original upholstery, and a Zero time warranted engine with 7 hours on it?
Ron Millman, CPA, Glendale, CA 818-241-3286.
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:27 pm Post subject: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
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Depends a lot on who did the overhaul. If your next door neighbor did the OH, $20,000 less than if Lycon did it.
I'm doing an annual on a plane with <250 hrs SMOH. One cylinder has already been replaced. Remaining cylinders are the original are the original soft O320 cylinders with over 2500 hrs on them. Both mags are 4200 series mags. Vacuum pump was last replaced in 1999. Alternator is all corroded. Sky-tec starter went in in 2003. Baffles are AFU. This is the first annual since the owner bought it. He paid good money for a plane with an OHd engine. It's worth core value.
If I had done the pre-buy, I'd have recommended paying $20,000 less for the plane.
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 10, 2011, at 7:44 PM, "Ronald Millman CPA" <ronmillmancpa(at)msn.com (ronmillmancpa(at)msn.com)> wrote:
[quote] <?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Ok, but what is an offer on an original, never damaged, 1977 Tiger, with original paint.
original upholstery, and a Zero time warranted engine with 7 hours on it?
Ron Millman, CPA, Glendale, CA 818-241-3286.
[quote] ---
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ronmillmancpa(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:24 am Post subject: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Pacific Continental Engines at Whiteman did the job. I had a tour of the shop.
It was just what you would hope for. Large, Clean, busy, and with quite a few
engines in various stages of overhaul to examine. I have had compliments from
owners who have had work done there or know of others who did.
Ron.
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flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:50 am Post subject: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
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That dreaded first annual by someone who now has to deal with all that deferred maintenance! I think you've had more than your fair share of them, Gary.
Cliff
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:50 am Post subject: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
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Well, son, let me tell you about PCE.
My mentor at KWJF was an accident investigator for the FAA. He told me to stay away from two companies: Victor and PCE. Of course, that was in 1997 and AFTER I sent an engine to PCE to get a new bottom end after a prop strike.
That engine came back from PCE with a complete bottom end overhaul. The cylinders were re-installed and the engine was test run. It ran great. The owner was happy, I was happy. Spring forward 5 years (and 4 annuals). The owner comes in and says he wants a complete engine overhaul. The engine has 1875 hrs SMOH, just over 600 hrs STOH, and just under 500 hours on the bottom end. He had been doing oil analysis since the bottom end was done. No problems. Easy overhaul. He wants a complete overhaul because he's giving the plane to his son and wants to be sure the engine is good. By now, though, I had begun using LyCon.
The tear down inspection at Lycon revealed that the rod bearings had been installed wrong. The bearings were wearing into the crank. The rods were trashed. The crank was damaged beyond repair. The cam and lifters were trashed. It's a good thing he brought the engine in for overhaul. The overhaul at LyCon was almost $20,000. That included a NEW starter, NEW vacuum pump, NEW mags, overhauled carb, overhauled alternator, and NEW Lycoming cylinders, ported and polished.
Now, mind you, that was 13 years ago (8 years since the LyCon overhaul). Things change. I'm not going to comment on what kind of work PCE does now. I don't have a clue. For all I know, it's a perfect overhaul/rebuild. However, I, myself, personally, would not pay extra for an airplane with a PCE engine in it. It's my prejudice. When 19 out of 20 racers in Reno and all airshow performers start displaying PCE engines on their planes, maybe I'll change my mind. Until then . . .
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The thread going around asking what a fair price is for a plane has been interesting. Tom asked about his plane's selling price. From the planes I see and what I see people buying and selling, $50,000 to $55,000 is a fair price.
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· Garmin 430 (Non WAAS)
· Garmin GTX-327 Transponder
· Garmin GMA 340 Audio Panel
· S-TEC30 w/alt hold (1 year old)
· GPSS (1 year old)
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These are what make the difference. You're looking at $25-35K retail on this. Figure you get half your money back.
Glenn, your plane is in the $50,000 range, but, I forget what avionics you have.
So, what would my plane be worth? 1590 TTAF/E. 490 since top end overhaul. Cylinders cost me over $8000. Two 430's. 340 audio panel. 327 transponder. No VOR. No glide-slope. S-Tec 30 with altitude hold. New interior. New glass. All new brakes, calipers, master cylinders, hoses AND aluminum brake lines. Jaguar cowling. True Air Speed of 160 knots at 2900 rpm at 1500 MSL. Will run all day at 145 knots and 2675 rpm and under 10 gph.
From: Ronald Millman CPA <ronmillmancpa(at)msn.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 5:19:12 AM
Subject: Re: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger
Pacific Continental Engines at Whiteman did the job. I had a tour of the shop.
It was just what you would hope for. Large, Clean, busy, and with quite a few
engines in various stages of overhaul to examine. I have had compliments from
owners who have had work done there or know of others who did.
Ron.
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:04 am Post subject: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
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I don't mind the work, Cliff, so much as seeing the owner looking at all the expenses for work that should have been done. This guy is a really nice guy. His first plane. I think he knows what to look for next time.
I work on about 35 to 40 planes a year. Well, Clytie and I work on about 35 to 40 planes a year. I couldn't do it alone. Most of them are returning customers. I get very little turn-over. Right now I am booking annuals into March and April.
Pic 1: Returning customer. Not bad maintenance by the guy the plane was taken to, just no attention to detail.
Remaining pics. How NOT to do baffles.
From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 5:48:08 AM
Subject: Re: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger
That dreaded first annual by someone who now has to deal with all that deferred maintenance! I think you've had more than your fair share of them, Gary.
Cliff
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