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gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.
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 Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:03 pm Post subject: Engines |
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Scott ... thx for ur reply ..was really looking for ur actual engine weight ... My previous Subaru engine (156hp) gave good performance 140kts cruise and 1000ft per min climb (at) 100kts .... but was working the engine pretty hard ...so went to the ej25 engine to get some extra performance gains at the same time running the engine a little easier .. inlet valve failure is still unexplained .
Only got 5 hrs from that engine but was getting 2000 fpm climb etc which was great ... ( bought that engine from a Helicopter build guy who gave up on his project ... but i checked with his engine rebuild shop and all seemed ok )
Currant engine plan is ... I have a turbo subaru sti block that produces 270 hp in stock form ....i'm wanting to de-rate it by running without the turbo at about 180 -200hp ... Hung up with finding a shop that will blue print the crank with opened bearing clearances to race specs ..the local shop only does big block engines and another good shop won't touch an aircraft job ... so having to to look away from home .. grrr
I like ur idea of upping the HP of say the lyc 320 but .... i'm trying to go de-rated rather than the other way ...
Are u running Mags ..or have u gone electronic ..?
Graham
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sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:36 pm Post subject: Engines |
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Hi Graham...
My IO-360 weighs about 300 pounds. The angle valve engines are little heavier. The 320 is 20-30 pounds lighter. Lycoming's website has a chart that shows the wieghts of all their engines.
My engine makes 220+ HP at sea level, but I don't normally operate the engine over the 180HP factory rating. I usually takeoff and climb at 25" MP which is roughly 180HP. I look at it as a 'turbo normalized' engine without the turbo. I built the engine for cross country performance at altitude, so I'm not really looking at power at sea level as much as power at altitude. I'm using dual P-mags for ignition and am very happy with them. The engine doesn't need any electrical power from the airplane once it's running which was important to me.
I think it would be hard to beat a mid time used 320 with a top overhaul with ported heads and high compression pistons.
Scott
--- On Tue, 1/11/11, Graham Brighton <gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au> wrote:
From: Graham Brighton <gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au>
Subject: Engines
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2011, 1:42 PM
Scott ... thx for ur reply ..was really looking for ur actual engine weight ... My previous Subaru engine (156hp) gave good performance 140kts cruise and 1000ft per min climb (at) 100kts .... but was working the engine pretty hard ...so went to the ej25 engine to get some extra performance gains at the same time running the engine a little easier ... inlet valve failure is still unexplained .
Only got 5 hrs from that engine but was getting 2000 fpm climb etc which was great ... ( bought that engine from a Helicopter build guy who gave up on his project ... but i checked with his engine rebuild shop and all seemed ok )
Currant engine plan is ... I have a turbo subaru sti block that produces 270 hp in stock form ....i'm wanting to de-rate it by running without the turbo at about 180 -200hp ... Hung up with finding a shop that will blue print the crank with opened bearing clearances to race specs ..the local shop only does big block engines and another good shop won't touch an aircraft job ... so having to to look away from home .. grrr
I like ur idea of upping the HP of say the lyc 320 but .... i'm trying to go de-rated rather than the other way ...
Are u running Mags ..or have u gone electronic ..?
Graham
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Flyinisfun(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:22 pm Post subject: Engines |
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Scott,
What is your weight? and what do your anticipate your weight to be with a passanger? What do you consider to be absolute gross?
Jesse
[quote][b]
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sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:48 pm Post subject: Engines |
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Hi Jesse,
My weight is about 200 lbs, the airplane empty is 850 lbs (I could drop 20 pounds by gonig to a light weight starter and a lighter, smaller battery). I called the gross weight 1700 lbs for the FAA, but it would be tough to get the zero fuel weight over 1300 lbs. The airplane holds at least 100 gallons of fuel (Maybe more, I haven't filled it all the way up yet, but 100 was the goal, the most I've flown with is 55 gallons). So me and the airplane wiegh 1050 lbs and 100 gallons of fuel is about 650 pounds. Full main tanks is 45 gallons, 270 pounds, so two of me and full main tanks is 1520 lbs. Anyhow, hopefully the info you're looking for is here somewhere.
Scott
--- On Thu, 1/13/11, Flyinisfun(at)aol.com <Flyinisfun(at)aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Flyinisfun(at)aol.com <Flyinisfun(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Engines
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, January 13, 2011, 3:20 PM
Scott,
What is your weight? and what do your anticipate your weight to be with a passanger? What do you consider to be absolute gross?
Jesse
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[quote][b]
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mantafs(at)earthlink.net
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:39 am Post subject: Engines |
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Hello Jesse,
Also keep in mind that Scott's wing is extended and has about 2 feet more span and almost 10% more area. Of course the added fuel load in the wing is distributed and does not load the spar.
Mark
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Flyinisfun(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:40 am Post subject: Engines |
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Hi Mark,
When I saw the 1700 limit I assumed he was building the Cruiser. How did he extend his wing and what engineering did he do for it? Is it just an extention and how far. Any details? I missed that.
Jesse
Hello Jesse,
Also keep in mind that Scott's wing is extended and has about 2 feet more span and almost 10% more area. Of course the added fuel load in the wing is distributed and does not load the spar.
Mark
--
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sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:44 am Post subject: Engines |
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The high 1700 max gross is for fuel which is span loaded so it really doesn't effect the structure. My spar caps are also 50% thicker and the spar shear web is carbon which more then takes care of the additional loads due to the increased bending. The material I used to make the spar caps is 50% thicker then the material rich used, so I just stuck with the original lay up schedule rather than calculating a new lay up shedule. I could have saved a bit of weight in the spar by doing some engineering, but I was short on time at the time.
My zero fuel weight, or really fuselage weight, will not be any higher then the factory rating which is the main concern structually. My biggest concern structually is the engine mount. I have a 300 pound engine hanging on a mount intended for a lighter engine. If I go to a heavy constant speed prop I'll analyze the mount.
I extended the wing by building the wing skins a little long. I haven't seen my airplane next to a factory airplane yet, so I'm not sure how different it really is. The wing skins go about 10 inches past the end of the spar and my wingtips add a few more inches.
Scott.
Scott
--- On Fri, 1/14/11, Flyinisfun(at)aol.com <Flyinisfun(at)aol.com> wrote:
[quote]
From: Flyinisfun(at)aol.com <Flyinisfun(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Engines
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, January 14, 2011, 9:38 AM
Hi Mark,
When I saw the 1700 limit I assumed he was building the Cruiser. How did he extend his wing and what engineering did he do for it? Is it just an extention and how far. Any details? I missed that.
Jesse
Hello Jesse,
Also keep in mind that Scott's wing is extended and has about 2 feet more span and almost 10% more area. Of course the added fuel load in the wing is distributed and does not load the spar.
Mark
--
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lgdavid(at)roadrunner.com
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:01 pm Post subject: Engines |
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I have seen Scott's plane and it looks just like a KIS TR1 taildragger....a very well built KIS. Once the paint was on and without another standing along side, the differences were not perseptable to me. Makes me envious every time I see it.  Larry
---- Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote] The high 1700 max gross is for fuel which is span loaded so it really doesn't effect the structure. My spar caps are also 50% thicker and the spar shear web is carbon which more then takes care of the additional loads due to the increased bending. The material I used to make the spar caps is 50% thicker then the material rich used, so I just stuck with the original lay up schedule rather than calculating a new lay up shedule. I could have saved a bit of weight in the spar by doing some engineering, but I was short on time at the time.Â
Â
My zero fuel weight, or really fuselage weight, will not be any higher then the factory rating which is the main concern structually. My biggest concern structually is the engine mount. I have a 300 pound engine hanging on a mount intended for a lighter engine. If I go to a heavy constant speed prop I'll analyze the mount.Â
Â
I extended the wing by building the wing skins a little long. I haven't seen my airplane next to a factory airplane yet, so I'm not sure how different it really is. The wing skins go about 10 inches past the end of the spar and my wingtips add a few more inches.
Â
Scott.
Â
Scott
--- On Fri, 1/14/11, Flyinisfun(at)aol.com <Flyinisfun(at)aol.com> wrote:
From: Flyinisfun(at)aol.com <Flyinisfun(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Engines
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, January 14, 2011, 9:38 AM
Hi Mark,
When I saw the 1700 limit I assumed he was building the Cruiser. How did he extend his wing and what engineering did he do for it? Is it just an extention and how far. Any details? I missed that.
  Jesse
Â
Â
Hello Jesse,
Also keep in mind that Scott's wing is extended and has about 2 feet more span and almost 10% more area. Of course the added fuel load in the wing is distributed and does not load the spar.
Mark
--
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gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:35 am Post subject: Engines |
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Scott,
My Internet has been interrupted lately (flooding up north) ..so couldn't get back straight away .. Good thinking on being able to hold HP up high ..have to wonder about 'watering the horse' though with all that fuel endurance .... My 'endurance' due bladder ..!!! is only a couple of hrs though ..!!!
On my engine build ... well the engine is in some ways the easy part and i do like water for head cooling etc ...but the Redrive with an auto conversion is much more problematic .. !!! Should come in under 300lbs ... will re total the weights this week .
Hey ..Bill Schertz ...how bout chiming in with some back up with ur Cruiser .... it has a Rotary rite ..or ..or .?
Cheers
Graham
(TR1 #80)
[quote]
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et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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wschertz(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:53 pm Post subject: Engines |
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Yes, I have installed a Mazda Rotary (Wankel) engine in my TR-4. I don’t have a Firewall Forward weight per-se, but my weight and balance came out okay, with any configuration of fuel and one person (pilot) it has a CG near the forward allowed, so I conclude that it is comparable to an O-360 all up weight.
I have just finished the 40 hours and am working on reducing the data. I may repeat some tests, because near the end I did another Pitot Static test and had a leak that had to be fixed. After I repeat some of the numbers to verify them I will post the results.
Weather is crummy here, and I am traveling during February and part of March, so it may be a while.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
Phase I testing
From: Graham Brighton (gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au)
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 5:30 AM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Engines
Scott,
My Internet has been interrupted lately (flooding up north) ..so couldn't get back straight away .. Good thinking on being able to hold HP up high .have to wonder about 'watering the horse' though with all that fuel endurance .... My 'endurance' due bladder ..!!! is only a couple of hrs though ..!!!
On my engine build ... well the engine is in some ways the easy part and i do like water for head cooling etc ...but the Redrive with an auto conversion is much more problematic .. !!! Should come in under 300lbs ... will re total the weights this week .
Hey ..Bill Schertz ...how bout chiming in with some back up with ur Cruiser .... it has a Rotary rite ..or ..or .?
Cheers
Graham
(TR1 #80)
[quote]
- (-(at)matronics.com)
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et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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[b]
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sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:34 am Post subject: Engines |
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Hi Graham,
I don't mind using a relief bottle. Also going multiple legs without refueling can be useful. For instance I was flying down in the Bahamas over the summer and it would have saved a good amount of money to have been able to fill up with $4 gallon gas in the US and not have to buy the $6+/gallon gas in the Bahamas.
Basically I can do two 3 hour legs and land with full main tanks (40 gallons), but I would have to do it solo. For instance I'll flying from California to Florida at some point. Right now there are some airports in texas that are selling 100LL for $3.50/gallon. I could fly from Texas to Florida and half way back with the cheap gas even if I wanted to stop a couple times.
Good luck with the subaru engine. What kind of power are you expecting and at what cost? What kind of electical system are you running to have backup power for the engine computer?
Scott
--- On Mon, 1/17/11, Graham Brighton <gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Graham Brighton <gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au>
Subject: Re: Engines
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, January 17, 2011, 3:30 AM
Scott,
My Internet has been interrupted lately (flooding up north) ..so couldn't get back straight away .. Good thinking on being able to hold HP up high ..have to wonder about 'watering the horse' though with all that fuel endurance .... My 'endurance' due bladder ..!!! is only a couple of hrs though ..!!!
On my engine build ... well the engine is in some ways the easy part and i do like water for head cooling etc ..but the Redrive with an auto conversion is much more problematic .. !!! Should come in under 300lbs ... will re total the weights this week ..
Hey ..Bill Schertz ...how bout chiming in with some back up with ur Cruiser .... it has a Rotary rite ..or ..or ..?
Cheers
Graham
(TR1 #80)
| Quote: |
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et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
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[quote][b]
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sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:54 am Post subject: Engines |
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Hi Bill,
What rotary are you using? What kind of power? What's your empty wieght?
Just curious...
Scott
--- On Mon, 1/17/11, Bill Schertz <wschertz(at)comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Bill Schertz <wschertz(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Engines
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, January 17, 2011, 3:50 PM
Yes, I have installed a Mazda Rotary (Wankel) engine in my TR-4. I don’t have a Firewall Forward weight per-se, but my weight and balance came out okay, with any configuration of fuel and one person (pilot) it has a CG near the forward allowed, so I conclude that it is comparable to an O-360 all up weight.
I have just finished the 40 hours and am working on reducing the data. I may repeat some tests, because near the end I did another Pitot Static test and had a leak that had to be fixed. After I repeat some of the numbers to verify them I will post the results.
Weather is crummy here, and I am traveling during February and part of March, so it may be a while.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
Phase I testing
From: Graham Brighton (gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au)
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 5:30 AM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Engines
Scott,
My Internet has been interrupted lately (flooding up north) ..so couldn't get back straight away .. Good thinking on being able to hold HP up high ..have to wonder about 'watering the horse' though with all that fuel endurance .... My 'endurance' due bladder ..!!! is only a couple of hrs though ..!!!
On my engine build ... well the engine is in some ways the easy part and i do like water for head cooling etc ..but the Redrive with an auto conversion is much more problematic .. !!! Should come in under 300lbs ... will re total the weights this week ..
Hey ..Bill Schertz ...how bout chiming in with some back up with ur Cruiser .... it has a Rotary rite ..or ..or ..?
Cheers
Graham
(TR1 #80)
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[quote][b]
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wschertz(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:37 am Post subject: Engines |
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I am using Mazda 13-B engine, with a 2.85:1 reduction to the prop. I was hoping for 180 hp, but think I am getting more like 160 at this time (still tweaking). Empty weight is 1488, which is heavier than the prototype, but I also have more interior, more instrumentation, more lights, etc. than the prototype. At least 20# is attributed to the muffler system for the engine.
Alternative engines are not for everyone – it clearly added a couple of years to my build time.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
From: Scott Stearns (sstearns2(at)yahoo.com)
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 3:53 AM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Engines
Hi Bill,
What rotary are you using? What kind of power? What's your empty wieght?
Just curious...
Scott
--- On Mon, 1/17/11, Bill Schertz <wschertz(at)comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Bill Schertz <wschertz(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Engines
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, January 17, 2011, 3:50 PM
Yes, I have installed a Mazda Rotary (Wankel) engine in my TR-4. I don’t have a Firewall Forward weight per-se, but my weight and balance came out okay, with any configuration of fuel and one person (pilot) it has a CG near the forward allowed, so I conclude that it is comparable to an O-360 all up weight.
I have just finished the 40 hours and am working on reducing the data. I may repeat some tests, because near the end I did another Pitot Static test and had a leak that had to be fixed. After I repeat some of the numbers to verify them I will post the results.
Weather is crummy here, and I am traveling during February and part of March, so it may be a while.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
Phase I testing
From: Graham Brighton (gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au)
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 5:30 AM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Engines
Scott,
My Internet has been interrupted lately (flooding up north) ..so couldn't get back straight away .. Good thinking on being able to hold HP up high ..have to wonder about 'watering the horse' though with all that fuel endurance .... My 'endurance' due bladder ..!!! is only a couple of hrs though ..!!!
On my engine build ... well the engine is in some ways the easy part and i do like water for head cooling etc ...but the Redrive with an auto conversion is much more problematic .. !!! Should come in under 300lbs ... will re total the weights this week ..
Hey ..Bill Schertz ...how bout chiming in with some back up with ur Cruiser .... it has a Rotary rite ..or .or ..?
Cheers
Graham
(TR1 #80)
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sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:56 am Post subject: Engines |
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We all could have saved a lot of years by just buying a flying airplane... but what fun would that be.
Are you using the turbo?
--- On Tue, 1/18/11, Bill Schertz <wschertz(at)comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Bill Schertz <wschertz(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Engines
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2011, 6:35 AM
I am using Mazda 13-B engine, with a 2.85:1 reduction to the prop. I was hoping for 180 hp, but think I am getting more like 160 at this time (still tweaking). Empty weight is 1488, which is heavier than the prototype, but I also have more interior, more instrumentation, more lights, etc. than the prototype. At least 20# is attributed to the muffler system for the engine.
Alternative engines are not for everyone – it clearly added a couple of years to my build time.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
From: Scott Stearns (sstearns2(at)yahoo.com)
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 3:53 AM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Engines
Hi Bill,
What rotary are you using? What kind of power? What's your empty wieght?
Just curious...
Scott
--- On Mon, 1/17/11, Bill Schertz <wschertz(at)comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Bill Schertz <wschertz(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Engines
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, January 17, 2011, 3:50 PM
Yes, I have installed a Mazda Rotary (Wankel) engine in my TR-4. I don’t have a Firewall Forward weight per-se, but my weight and balance came out okay, with any configuration of fuel and one person (pilot) it has a CG near the forward allowed, so I conclude that it is comparable to an O-360 all up weight.
I have just finished the 40 hours and am working on reducing the data. I may repeat some tests, because near the end I did another Pitot Static test and had a leak that had to be fixed. After I repeat some of the numbers to verify them I will post the results.
Weather is crummy here, and I am traveling during February and part of March, so it may be a while.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
Phase I testing
From: Graham Brighton
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 5:30 AM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Engines
Scott,
My Internet has been interrupted lately (flooding up north) ..so couldn't get back straight away .. Good thinking on being able to hold HP up high ..have to wonder about 'watering the horse' though with all that fuel endurance .... My 'endurance' due bladder ..!!! is only a couple of hrs though ..!!!
On my engine build ... well the engine is in some ways the easy part and i do like water for head cooling etc ..but the Redrive with an auto conversion is much more problematic .. !!! Should come in under 300lbs ... will re total the weights this week ..
Hey ..Bill Schertz ...how bout chiming in with some back up with ur Cruiser .... it has a Rotary rite ..or ..or ..?
Cheers
Graham
(TR1 #80)
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fredorosa(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:40 pm Post subject: Engines |
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Alternative engines are not for everyone – it clearly added a couple of years to my build time.
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And a few gray hairs I bet.
[quote] | Quote: |
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
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wschertz(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:07 pm Post subject: Engines |
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No turbo
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
Phase I testing
From: Scott Stearns (sstearns2(at)yahoo.com)
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 1:54 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Engines
We all could have saved a lot of years by just buying a flying airplane... but what fun would that be.
Are you using the turbo?
--- On Tue, 1/18/11, Bill Schertz <wschertz(at)comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Bill Schertz <wschertz(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Engines
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2011, 6:35 AM
I am using Mazda 13-B engine, with a 2.85:1 reduction to the prop. I was hoping for 180 hp, but think I am getting more like 160 at this time (still tweaking). Empty weight is 1488, which is heavier than the prototype, but I also have more interior, more instrumentation, more lights, etc. than the prototype. At least 20# is attributed to the muffler system for the engine.
Alternative engines are not for everyone – it clearly added a couple of years to my build time.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
From: Scott Stearns (sstearns2(at)yahoo.com)
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 3:53 AM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Engines
Hi Bill,
What rotary are you using? What kind of power? What's your empty wieght?
Just curious...
Scott
--- On Mon, 1/17/11, Bill Schertz <wschertz(at)comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Bill Schertz <wschertz(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Engines
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, January 17, 2011, 3:50 PM
Yes, I have installed a Mazda Rotary (Wankel) engine in my TR-4. I don’t have a Firewall Forward weight per-se, but my weight and balance came out okay, with any configuration of fuel and one person (pilot) it has a CG near the forward allowed, so I conclude that it is comparable to an O-360 all up weight.
I have just finished the 40 hours and am working on reducing the data. I may repeat some tests, because near the end I did another Pitot Static test and had a leak that had to be fixed. After I repeat some of the numbers to verify them I will post the results.
Weather is crummy here, and I am traveling during February and part of March, so it may be a while.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
Phase I testing
From: Graham Brighton
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 5:30 AM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Engines
Scott,
My Internet has been interrupted lately (flooding up north) ..so couldn't get back straight away .. Good thinking on being able to hold HP up high ..have to wonder about 'watering the horse' though with all that fuel endurance .... My 'endurance' due bladder ..!!! is only a couple of hrs though ..!!!
On my engine build ... well the engine is in some ways the easy part and i do like water for head cooling etc ...but the Redrive with an auto conversion is much more problematic .. !!! Should come in under 300lbs ... will re total the weights this week ..
Hey ..Bill Schertz ..how bout chiming in with some back up with ur Cruiser .... it has a Rotary rite ..or ..or ..?
Cheers
Graham
(TR1 #80)
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gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:43 am Post subject: Engines |
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Subject: Re: Engines
G'Day back Scott,
And i reckon u could just about make it to Australia with all that fuel .... of course u'd have to 'super-size' .er ..that Bottle ...!!
I looked at my Subaru engine weights again ... 2.5 sti engine running non turbo .. ( turbo 270 hp ... but looking for derated at close to 200 hp )
Engine long block 80kg
Engine exhaust x2 4kg
Alternator 70amp 5kg
Engine mounts 3kg
Intake/coil/leads/TB 7kg
Redrive 1:1.82 ratio 26kg
Total .......... 125kg (275 lbs
Belly Scoop Radiator ... ?kg
Plumbing ........................ ?kg
Water coolant...................?kg
So pretty line ball with the IO 360 by the looks ..?!
Cost well ..... Auto conversions can cost anything ...cost Larry his plane ... sob ...cost me a forced landing and some busted parts ... has cost others much more hey ..? BUT .... If u find the rite engine builder (finally i think i have ) who specializes in only my engine (subaru) type and is fair dinkum ( not blowing smoke) ... well not much money ... I'v managed to track down bout the best subaru man in Melbourne ...$ 2-3 K for engine preparation (blue printing crank clearances,forged pistons ,line boring ,s/s x-rayed valves , etc etc .. i supplied the block and core heads and Delta cams .. His short block (factory new) price $1600 .. ( bugger i already paid $2000 for the same factory block grr ..!?)
Haven't settled on engine management ... has to be not subaru though (limp mode etc etc ..) The engine builder is looking at SDS and Tracy Cook etc ...
Running knock sensors allows timing rite up to Peck Power .. and without it the engine is just missing out on available power ...!
Redrives ... are a real headache i think .... Harmonics vary with each individual engine type combo ... so danger there ...
Electric's ...well i didn't build the plane so there is gaps in my knowledge how some things are set up .. i have two 17 amp hr (34 amp hrs)Batteries and two Buss's ..engine runs on either or both !! .. and will run on the Alternator alone ..!!! ...not as good as running Mags ..but ur Mag timing is set off for detonation safety ... so loosing power hey !!
Anyway ...blowed if i know ... i specially DON'T like getting milked by the certified engine so and so's ...!!!
Engine guy thinks i'm a little conservative ... ! but a turbo is a possibility in the future ..far off though ...( car turbo rotors are not suitable for aero use though )
So ..as Bill says ...not for everybody ..!!
Cheers
Graham
Ps Have friends coming to CA in 3 wks time ..wish it was me ..sob ..!
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sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:36 am Post subject: Engines |
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I thought there was a simple fix for the limp home mode problem.
I'm using P-mags for ignition which have spark advance, but it's not as good as you can do with a knock sensor and digital fuel injection.
With light winds and fully cleaned up my plane just might be able to do make it to Hawaii. After you make Hawaii then getting down to Australia is "easy". Reminds me of the book called The Sky Beyond by an Australian named Gordon Taylor. It's about the flying in Australia and the south pacific in the 20s and 30s. Imagine landing a Catalina on the lagoon in Bora Bora in the 1930s. Great book.
Scott
--- On Wed, 1/19/11, Graham Brighton <gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au> wrote:
From: Graham Brighton <gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au>
Subject: Fw: Engines
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 3:39 AM
Subject: Re: Engines
G'Day back Scott,
And i reckon u could just about make it to Australia with all that fuel .... of course u'd have to 'super-size' .er ..that Bottle ...!!
I looked at my Subaru engine weights again ... 2.5 sti engine running non turbo .. ( turbo 270 hp ... but looking for derated at close to 200 hp )
Engine long block 80kg
Engine exhaust x2 4kg
Alternator 70amp 5kg
Engine mounts 3kg
Intake/coil/leads/TB 7kg
Redrive 1:1.82 ratio 26kg
Total .......... 125kg (275 lbs
Belly Scoop Radiator ... ?kg
Plumbing ........................ ?kg
Water coolant...................?kg
So pretty line ball with the IO 360 by the looks ..?!
Cost well ..... Auto conversions can cost anything ...cost Larry his plane ... sob ...cost me a forced landing and some busted parts ... has cost others much more hey ..? BUT .... If u find the rite engine builder (finally i think i have ) who specializes in only my engine (subaru) type and is fair dinkum ( not blowing smoke) ... well not much money ... I'v managed to track down bout the best subaru man in Melbourne ...$ 2-3 K for engine preparation (blue printing crank clearances,forged pistons ,line boring ,s/s x-rayed valves , etc etc .. i supplied the block and core heads and Delta cams .. His short block (factory new) price $1600 .. ( bugger i already paid $2000 for the same factory block grr ..!?)
Haven't settled on engine management ... has to be not subaru though (limp mode etc etc ..) The engine builder is looking at SDS and Tracy Cook etc ...
Running knock sensors allows timing rite up to Peck Power .. and without it the engine is just missing out on available power ...!
Redrives ... are a real headache i think .... Harmonics vary with each individual engine type combo ... so danger there ...
Electric's ...well i didn't build the plane so there is gaps in my knowledge how some things are set up .. i have two 17 amp hr (34 amp hrs)Batteries and two Buss's ..engine runs on either or both !! .. and will run on the Alternator alone ..!!! ...not as good as running Mags ...but ur Mag timing is set off for detonation safety ... so loosing power hey !!
Anyway ...blowed if i know ... i specially DON'T like getting milked by the certified engine so and so's ...!!!
Engine guy thinks i'm a little conservative ... ! but a turbo is a possibility in the future ..far off though ...( car turbo rotors are not suitable for aero use though )
So ..as Bill says ...not for everybody ..!!
Cheers
Graham
Ps Have friends coming to CA in 3 wks time ..wish it was me ..sob ..!
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gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:55 am Post subject: Engines |
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Limp mode with the early Subaru models has been sussed ... but with the newer models with say variable valve timing and with suspension control and brakes and and .. well no body can be totally certain about what the ecu can do if this and that is faked out etc ..
Yep amazing what those early aviation guys got up too ... haven't read the book but will look out for it ....
Would be great if some new interest was brought to the TR1 wing .. but haven't u just build a lite wing ..!?
Graham
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