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PORT SIDE FAIRING

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bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:49 am Post subject: PORT SIDE FAIRING

3/4/2011



Hello Alfred, You wrote: ".....damage to bottom part of port side fairing is 

such that it needs to be replaced/rebuilt."



and



"If you know where one can still get that fairing part plse let me know?"



It is a bit difficult to give specific advice on the part involved without 

seeing a picture of the damage, but please let me comment in anticipation.



A) The original kit provided bottom of the wing fairings did not work at all 

for me. My solution was to position the fuselage upside down and install the 

wing.



B) Then I bridged the entire area to be faired with multiple strips of tape 

that epoxy would not stick to.



C) Then I put a few layers of epoxy soaked fiberglass on the tape and let it 

cure.



D) Then I removed the fairly stiff leather like piece of fiberglass fairing, 

removed the tape covering the gap, trimmed the fairing edges, and used that 

layup as my lower wing fairing.



'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to 

gather and understand knowledge."



PS: Keep in mind that Julian Bond did extensive wing fairing mods to his KIS 

TR-1. I have attached just one of the pictures that are available.



============================================================






Hi Rich,



Chuckle ... yes, going in a circle is a good way to get nowhere fast :O)



Judged by the eye, linear speed in the arc was 8-10 miles/hr when left 

wingtip connected the side of Cessna's tail section. The wing did flex 

backward a bit and the hinge of the flap actuator was bent approx half an 

inch out of line. The wing will have to come off anyway because  flap 

actuator mechanism needs work and damage to bottom part of port side fairing 

is such that it needs to be replaced/rebuilt.



If you know where one can still get that fairing part plse let me know?



Good news is that there are no cracks whatsoever in fuselage or spar box 

attachment (which was built much stronger than specified) Firewall and 

engine mount is fine too. The plane had a huge aluminium spinner which 

absorbed most of the impact and shock.



Besides fixable damage to left wing tip front corner, other airframe damage 

is constrained to wing fairings and rudder actuator hinge mechanism. Photos 

will follow once insurance matters are resolved.



The list of glass fibre repair items include:



1) cowling top and bottom left front  side

2) left wing fairing (extensive)

3) right wing fairing (negligible)

3) starboard side of tail fin (scratches and one small perforation)

4) left wing tip front corner

5) fibre panel to front of left flap actuator hinge has a hole in it.

6) topside of left wing has scratches and a shallow dent just to inside fuel 

cap but is not pulverised or cracked (from sliding underneath the tail 

section of Cessna)

7) port hatch to be re-attached and scratches on top side of cabin to be 

mended

 windscreen to be replaced



Rudder modifications, zero timed engine and complete repaint to round it all 

off.



Regards,

             Alfred

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kentpyle(at)iland.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:33 pm Post subject: PORT SIDE FAIRING

Alfred, first of all.  I am sorry to hear bout your mishap and your resolve 

to fix everything back is a good thing.



My kit did not come with the farings, so I made my own by using the top of 

the wing as the pattern.  I layed tape on the surface so the glue would not 

stick.  Then 4 layers of fiberglass cloth.  I epoxyed glued that and let it 

in place for a couple of days.  When I peeled the fibeglass from the upper 

surface, and trial fitted it in place it fit suprisingly well considering 

the curvatures wee not the same.  After using #8 counterset screws every 4 

inches on both sides, it conforms to the contures very well.



Rich was able to get me a replacement faring.  Kent

---

BlueSkyFlier

Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 74
Location: UK

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING

Thanks OC.



That confirms the thoughts I had. The difficult part is getting the plane upside down with gear and all . Empty weight without engine is ~ 720 lb. but nothing is impossible.



I could use inflatable mattress to put pressure on layups from below.



- Alfred

_________________
_________________________________________

bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:36 pm Post subject: PORT SIDE FAIRING

3/4/2011



Hello Alfred, You wrote:



1) "The difficult part is getting the plane upside down with gear and 

all...."



That is very true, but I bet that if you had the engine, nose gear,  and 

wing off (may be a very likely configuration in the process of your repair) 

the plane could be tipped over going nose down tail up. It is not that hard 

to rig sling straps for the fuselage to rest in while upside down.



Also consider that one can make epoxy - fiberglass layups onto an overhead 

surface. It is more difficult than having gravity to help you, but it can be 

done.



2) "I could use inflatable mattress to put pressure on layups from below."



An excellent idea -- thin plywood between the matress and the fiberglass 

layup with a release surface and peel ply on the plywood could create a very 

nice fairing surface ready for filling, priming, and painting.



OC



=====================================================

From: "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com>

To: <kis-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 3:40 PM

Subject: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com>



 Thanks OC.



 That confirms the thoughts I had. The difficult part is getting the plane 

 upside down with gear and all . Empty weight without engine is ~ 720 lb. 

 but nothing is impossible.



 I could use inflatable mattress to put pressure on layups from below.



 - Alfred

ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:06 pm Post subject: PORT SIDE FAIRING

I went a different direction with the bottom fairings. I made them out of 

thin Aluminum sheet and screwed them on. They make large inspection doors 

and were easy fit.



If you are interested I could take some photos and post them.



Tim

---

Robert Reed

Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:53 pm Post subject: PORT SIDE FAIRING

Much easier to use some plastic, tape, and vacuum.

  

 Bob



 

   From: BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com>

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 2:40:31 PM

Subject: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING



--> KIS-List message posted by: "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com (bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com)>



Thanks OC.



That confirms the thoughts I had. The difficult part is getting the plane upside down with gear and all . Empty weight without engine is ~ 720 lb. but nothing is impossible.



I could use inflatable mattress to put pressure on layups from below.



- Alfred



--------

_________________________________________





Read this topic online  here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332784#332784[b]



 [quote][b]

richard_trickel(at)yahoo.
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:38 am Post subject: PORT SIDE FAIRING

Alfred

 Make the fairing on the top skin as referred to earlier.  The difference is minimal and the material is flexible enough to work.  Just trim and put in place.  No need to flip the plane over.

 Rich



--- On Fri, 3/4/11, bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net>

Subject: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com, bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com

Date: Friday, March 4, 2011, 10:31 PM



 --> KIS-List message posted by: <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)>



3/4/2011



Hello Alfred, You wrote:



1) "The difficult part is getting the plane upside down with gear and all...."



That is very true, but I bet that if you had the engine, nose gear,  and wing off (may be a very likely configuration in the process of your repair) the plane could be tipped over going nose down tail up. It is not that hard to rig sling straps for the fuselage to rest in while upside down.



Also consider that one can make epoxy - fiberglass layups onto an overhead surface. It is more difficult than having gravity to help you, but it can be done.



2) "I could use inflatable mattress to put pressure on layups from below."



An excellent idea -- thin plywood between the matress and the fiberglass layup with  a release surface and peel ply on the plywood could create a very nice fairing surface ready for filling, priming, and painting.



OC



===

From: "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com (bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com)>

To: <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)>

Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 3:40 PM

Subject: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> KIS-List message posted by: "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com (bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com)>

 

 Thanks OC.

 

 That confirms the thoughts I had. The difficult part is  getting the plane upside down with gear and all . Empty weight without engine is ~ 720 lb. but nothing is impossible.

 

 I could use inflatable mattress to put pressure on layups from below.

 

 nbsp;  --> http://www.matronics.com/con=================


	




	


         [quote][b]

BlueSkyFlier

Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 74
Location: UK

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:59 am Post subject: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING

Much obliged for the sage advice Rich.



Since the front part of the port upper fairing is also somewhat damaged that makes a lot of sense. Together with Tim's idea of using thin plate below the wing I think this repair issue is now resolved.



I'll get a professional to handle the wingtip, dent on topside of the wing and the tail fin.



The rest is easy enough if I can source a stock 3/16" windscreen from the guys in Los Alamitos who apparently have the mold.



Regards,

            Alfred

_________________
_________________________________________

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:34 pm Post subject: PORT SIDE FAIRING

I think the best way to make the lower wing fairings is to get the airfoil coordinates off the web and cut two templates and make a sandwich with a block of low density foam and use a long sanding board to sand the foam to match the templates.  I think you could make a nice mold in an hour or less and it would be the correct shape.

  

 I made my lower fairings and my wingtips by laying up on the wing itself and I don't think using the top of the wing as a mold would produce a good quality part.

  

 I would try to avoid dropping the wing unless you have to.  There's a fair amount of risk of damaging things during the demate procedure and it might be a real challenge getting it all lined up again.  You can jack the wing up under the spar and remove one bolt at a time to inspect the bolts and bushings.  

  

 As for the engine... I assume you were running a wood prop?  A lot of people I know would just check the runout on the crank and call it good after a low power prop strike with a wood prop.  

  

 Scott

  

 



--- On Sat, 3/5/11, BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com>

Subject: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 10:59 AM



 --> KIS-List message posted by: "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com (bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com)>



Much obliged for the sage advice Rich.



Since the front part of the port upper fairing is also somewhat damaged that makes a lot of sense. Together with Tim's idea of using thin plate below the wing I think this repair issue is now resolved.



I'll get a professional to handle the wingtip, dent on topside of the wing and the tail fin.



The rest is easy enough if I can source a stock 3/16" windscreen from the guys in Los Alamitos who apparently have the mold.



Regards,

            Alfred



--------

_________________________________________





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332853#332853http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-Listhttp://forums.matronbsp;          - List Contribution Web Site -http://www=======================





	


         [quote][b]

kentpyle(at)iland.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:05 pm Post subject: PORT SIDE FAIRING

Scott, it madea very good quality part!!   Kent

 [quote]   ---

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: PORT SIDE FAIRING

It seems to me it wouldn't fit well at the leading edge, but maybe your fairings are different than mine.  

  

 You can just make a layup on a flat table and make it work as long as you don't have to go around the leading edge very far, but I think with a little more effort you can make a part that matches the curve of the wing. 

  

 Scott



--- On Sat, 3/5/11, kent pyle <kentpyle(at)iland.net> wrote:



 [quote]

From: kent pyle <kentpyle(at)iland.net>

Subject: Re: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 6:03 PM



    Scott, it madea very good quality part!!  Kent

 [quote] ---

kentpyle(at)iland.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:14 am Post subject: PORT SIDE FAIRING

Scott, mine still fits very well.   Kent

 [quote]   ---

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:05 pm Post subject: PORT SIDE FAIRING

Did some reading about prop strikes.  The engine shop websites all say there is no way to know what might be wrong in the engine without tearing it down, but with a wood prop the chances of anything being damaged are less.

  

 One specific area on Continental engines to look at seems to be the gearing to the alternator.  

  

 Very curious to hear what they find (or hopefully don't find) during the teardown.

  

 Scott



--- On Sat, 3/5/11, Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 5:30 PM



      I think the best way to make the lower wing fairings is to get the airfoil coordinates off the web and cut two templates and make a sandwich with a block of low density foam and use a long sanding board to sand the foam to match the templates.  I think you could make a nice mold in an hour or less and it would be the correct shape.

  

 I made my lower fairings and my wingtips by laying up on the wing itself and I don't think using the top of the wing as a mold would produce a good quality part.

  

 I would try to avoid dropping the wing unless you have to.  There's a fair amount of risk of damaging things during the demate procedure and it might be a real challenge getting it all lined up again.  You can jack the wing up under the spar and remove one bolt at a time to inspect the bolts and bushings.  

  

 As for the engine... I assume you were running a wood prop?  A lot of people I know would just check the runout on the crank and call it good after a low power prop strike with a wood prop.  

  

 Scott

  

 



--- On Sat, 3/5/11, BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com>

Subject: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 10:59 AM



 --> KIS-List message posted by: "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com>



Much obliged for the sage advice Rich.



Since the front part of the port upper fairing is also somewhat damaged that makes a lot of sense. Together with Tim's idea of using thin plate below the wing I think this repair issue is now resolved.



I'll get a professional to handle the wingtip, dent on topside of the wing and the tail fin.



The rest is easy enough if I can source a stock 3/16" windscreen from the guys in Los Alamitos who apparently have the mold.



Regards,

            Alfred



--------

_________________________________________





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332853#332853 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List http://forums.matronbsp;          - List Contribution Web Site - http://www=======================





	


 	  Quote: 	
		  



=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com

llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	


               [quote][b]

gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:08 am Post subject: PORT SIDE FAIRING

Alfred,

              Hope i'm wrong .. but if have wing root fairing damage and 

damaged Flap hinge ... it sounds like u could have damage at the rear spar 

attach point ..... mine fractured there during a forced landing ..and my 

wing didn't have any impact at all ..



Attached are the Pics of my damage ... i have a fix under way but other jobs 

are taking priority at the moment ..



Graham

KIS TR1  #80

BlueSkyFlier

Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 74
Location: UK

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:51 am Post subject: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING

Hi Graham,



After working through the builder's manual over the weekend I arrived at the same conclusion.



Rich did of course spot that in the first instance and said that repairing the rear spar bushing would not be difficult. So I'm not too worried as we also did not notice anything amiss there during the first inspection. I shall surely take a closer look at that particular area tomorrow.



Perhaps I'll even drop the wing tomorrow ...  Scott's advice to avoid dropping the wing is sound, but I need to be sure about the spar after the unusual loading from the top it got from the Cessna's tail section. By doing it myself I'll learn quite a bit about the plane. Besides, it will save me a bit on the repair and the repaint of the wing (and perhaps even reduce hangar fees if I reduce the area occupied for the time being ).



Will take some pictures tomorrow.



Regards,

            Alfred

_________________
_________________________________________

BlueSkyFlier

Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 74
Location: UK

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:50 am Post subject: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING

TO: Graham (Brighton)



Graham, 

            The message you posted on Monday mentions some attached pictures, but I don't see any pictures via the message board.



I tried contact you directly but the mail address does not resolve.



Would you be so kind as to send the pics you mentioned directly to me at the following address?: blueskyflier(at)teledynamix.com



Thanks and regards,

                             Alfred

_________________
_________________________________________

gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:01 am Post subject: PORT SIDE FAIRING

G'Day back Alfred,

                                 Been a couple of days away ..... don't know

why u couldn't receive/open the Pics i attached previously but i'll resend

them to u direct ..



Graham

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