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kentpyle(at)iland.net
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 Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:19 am Post subject: Door hinge |
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Mine are bolted in place. Kent
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bakerocb
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:37 pm Post subject: Door hinge |
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4/17/2011
Hello Al, You wrote: "Are they to be bonded using micro flox only?"
I don't think that you can trust an epoxy flox mixture only to hold the door hinges to the fuselage top. Sooner or later a gust of wind will catch those doors when they are open on the ground and the hinge removal force could be significant.
I used two 10 - 32 flat head Torx drive (6 lobe) machine screws to fasten the fuselage side of each of my four door hinges into the carbon fiber reenforced depressions provided for those hinge ends. I obtained the screws from here:
http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSCFCMXS.cfm
The exterior hinge ends and countersunk screw heads are buried under micro - flox filler, sanded to blend in with the fuselage top shape, and painted for appearance.
The inside ceiling end of the screws are fastened with nylon insert stop nuts and the extended screw ends cut and filed off to avoid banging into the heads of occupants.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge."
===========================
[quote] ---
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bakerocb
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:34 am Post subject: Door hinge |
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4/18/2011
Hello Alfred, You wrote:
1) ".... my head almost reaches the ceiling. The last thing I need are bolts or nuts protruding down from the cockpit ceiling."
Yes, the seat-to-head ceiling clearance in my KIS TR-1 is also very marginal and the top band of the headset sticking up aggravates the problem. It turns out though that the location of the inside nuts on the screws holding the fuselage end of the hinges is such that they are very rarely a factor in head contact.
2) ".... put the nuts on the outside and bury them with micro flox...?
That should work provided that the nuts don't stick up so far that they make a bump on the fuselage finish. Also consider that someday someone may want to remove the fuselage end of the hinges by unscrewing the machine screws holding them in place.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge."
==================================
[quote] ---
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sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:23 am Post subject: Door hinge |
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You can also use shear nuts which are half the thickness of standard nuts. That's what I used.
I also sandwiched the hinge between two peices of 1/16" phenolic and bonded it into the fuselage. Than you can pull off the door and have a slot to slip the hinges into. I drilled down through the sandwich with the door exactly where I wanted it and used countersunk bolts and thin nuts on the inside.
Scott
--- On Mon, 4/18/11, bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:
[quote]
From: bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Door hinge
To: "KIS-LIST, MATRONICS" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>, "ALFRED ROSA" <fredorosa(at)gmail.com>
Date: Monday, April 18, 2011, 4:27 AM
4/18/2011
Hello Alfred, You wrote:
1) ".... my head almost reaches the ceiling. The last thing I need are bolts or nuts protruding down from the cockpit ceiling."
Yes, the seat-to-head ceiling clearance in my KIS TR-1 is also very marginal and the top band of the headset sticking up aggravates the problem. It turns out though that the location of the inside nuts on the screws holding the fuselage end of the hinges is such that they are very rarely a factor in head contact.
2) ".... put the nuts on the outside and bury them with micro flox...?
That should work provided that the nuts don't stick up so far that they make a bump on the fuselage finish. Also consider that someday someone may want to remove the fuselage end of the hinges by unscrewing the machine screws holding them in place.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge."
==================================
[quote] ---
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wschertz(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:34 am Post subject: Door hinge |
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You need to bolt them in place. You have to make sure they are aligned with one another so that they don’t bind when the door swings. I did this using a piece of wood to represent the door, and aligned the hinges and then drilled the fuselage top to match holes in the hinges
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
Phase one testing Completed
From: ALFRED ROSA (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 12:31 PM
To: kisbuilders (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Door hinge
The manuel doesn't give directions for attaching the aluminum hinges to the fuselage top and only instructions for attaching to the doors.
Are they to be bonded using micro flox only?
Al
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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fredorosa(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:27 am Post subject: Door hinge |
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I think I'll make access covers to the hinges to be able to get at the nuts. 4 countersunk 8/32 screws could hold the access covers to the fuselage top.Moulding fiberglass to the exact contour would be easy using the fuselage top as a mold. It sounds like a plan.
Al
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com (sstearns2(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] You can also use shear nuts which are half the thickness of standard nuts. That's what I used.
I also sandwiched the hinge between two peices of 1/16" phenolic and bonded it into the fuselage. Than you can pull off the door and have a slot to slip the hinges into. I drilled down through the sandwich with the door exactly where I wanted it and used countersunk bolts and thin nuts on the inside.
Scott
--- On Mon, 4/18/11, bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net) <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)> wrote:
[quote]
From: bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net) <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)>
Subject: Re: Door hinge
To: "KIS-LIST, MATRONICS" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)>, "ALFRED ROSA" <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)>
Date: Monday, April 18, 2011, 4:27 AM
4/18/2011
Hello Alfred, You wrote:
1) ".... my head almost reaches the ceiling. The last thing I need are bolts or nuts protruding down from the cockpit ceiling."
Yes, the seat-to-head ceiling clearance in my KIS TR-1 is also very marginal and the top band of the headset sticking up aggravates the problem. It turns out though that the location of the inside nuts on the screws holding the fuselage end of the hinges is such that they are very rarely a factor in head contact.
2) ".... put the nuts on the outside and bury them with micro flox...?
That should work provided that the nuts don't stick up so far that they make a bump on the fuselage finish. Also consider that someday someone may want to remove the fuselage end of the hinges by unscrewing the machine screws holding them in place.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge."
==================================
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
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sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:04 am Post subject: Door hinge |
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I would sit in the airplane and see if you head actually comes close fasteners. I thought it would be a problem in my airplane, but I've never had a problem. The thin nuts with a thin washer are less than 1/4 inch thick
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richard_trickel(at)yahoo.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:54 am Post subject: Door hinge |
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Al
The hinge recess is deep enough that you could put the nuts on the top. (Short Screws) I then covered the rest of the hing well with a plate glue with silicon after painting
--- On Mon, 4/18/11, Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Door hinge
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, April 18, 2011, 6:02 PM
I would sit in the airplane and see if you head actually comes close fasteners. I thought it would be a problem in my airplane, but I've never had a problem. The thin nuts with a thin washer are less than 1/4 inch thick
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Keith.Miller(at)esa.int
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:42 am Post subject: Door hinge |
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I went for the KIS approach , make a 2 " square plate out of 1/4"aluminium
(or large enough) to go on the inside of the cockpit and screw tap 4
holes corresponding to the holes in the hinge plate and dont bother with
the nuts at all . simple , safe to the head , neat and actually helps when
installing the doors
if i get up to the airfield i will take a picture .
keith
From: ALFRED ROSA <fredorosa(at)gmail.com>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: 18/04/2011 19:28
Subject: Re: Door hinge
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com
I think I'll make access covers to the hinges to be able to get at the
nuts. 4 countersunk 8/32 screws could hold the access covers to the fuselage
top.
Moulding fiberglass to the exact contour would be easy using the fuselage top
as a mold. It sounds like a plan.
Al
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
You can also use shear nuts which are half the thickness of standard nuts. That's what I used.
I also sandwiched the hinge between two peices of 1/16" phenolic and bonded it into the fuselage. Than you can pull off the door and have a
slot to slip the hinges into. I drilled down through the sandwich with the door exactly where I wanted it and used countersunk bolts and
thin nuts on the inside.
Scott
--- On Mon, 4/18/11, bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:
From: bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Door hinge
To: "KIS-LIST, MATRONICS" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>, "ALFRED ROSA" <fredorosa(at)gmail.com>
Date: Monday, April 18, 2011, 4:27 AM
4/18/2011
Hello Alfred, You wrote:
1) ".... my head almost reaches the ceiling. The last thing I need are bolts or nuts protruding down from the cockpit ceiling."
Yes, the seat-to-head ceiling clearance in my KIS TR-1 is also very marginal and the top band of the headset sticking up aggravates the
problem. It turns out though that the location of the inside nuts on the screws holding the fuselage end of the hinges is such that they
are very rarely a factor in head contact.
2) ".... put the nuts on the outside and bury them with micro flox...?
That should work provided that the nuts don't stick up so far that they make a bump on the fuselage finish. Also consider that someday
someone may want to remove the fuselage end of the hinges by unscrewing the machine screws holding them in place.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge."
==================================
---
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
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fredorosa(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:24 am Post subject: Door hinge |
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Kieth,
You still have a 1/4" intrusion into the cockpit head room, and threaded aluminum is not the strongest nut plate. I've decided to use 4- 10x32
flat head machine screws with tinnerman washers in the cockpit ceiling and bury the nut ends in a dry micro which will seal the area and follow the roof contour. If, in the future someone (not me) wants to remove the hinge, it can be chiseled out of the micro (not too difficult if the micro was applied dry).
Thanks for the suggestion.
Al
On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 7:52 AM, <Keith.Miller(at)esa.int (Keith.Miller(at)esa.int)> wrote:
[quote]--> KIS-List message posted by: Keith.Miller(at)esa.int (Keith.Miller(at)esa.int)
I went for the KIS approach , make a 2 " square plate out of 1/4"aluminium
(or large enough) to go on the inside of the cockpit and screw tap 4
holes corresponding to the holes in the hinge plate and dont bother with
the nuts at all . simple , safe to the head , neat and actually helps when
installing the doors
if i get up to the airfield i will take a picture .
keith
From: ALFRED ROSA <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Date: 18/04/2011 19:28
Subject: Re: Door hinge
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)
I think I'll make access covers to the hinges to be able to get at the
nuts. 4 countersunk 8/32 screws could hold the access covers to the fuselage
top.
Moulding fiberglass to the exact contour would be easy using the fuselage top
as a mold. It sounds like a plan.
Al
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com (sstearns2(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
You can also use shear nuts which are half the thickness of standard nuts. That's what I used.
I also sandwiched the hinge between two peices of 1/16" phenolic and bonded it into the fuselage. Than you can pull off the door and have a
slot to slip the hinges into. I drilled down through the sandwich with the door exactly where I wanted it and used countersunk bolts and
thin nuts on the inside.
Scott
--- On Mon, 4/18/11, bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net) <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)> wrote:
From: bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net) <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)>
Subject: Re: Door hinge
To: "KIS-LIST, MATRONICS" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)>, "ALFRED ROSA" <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)>
Date: Monday, April 18, 2011, 4:27 AM
4/18/2011
Hello Alfred, You wrote:
1) ".... my head almost reaches the ceiling. The last thing I need are bolts or nuts protruding down from the cockpit ceiling."
Yes, the seat-to-head ceiling clearance in my KIS TR-1 is also very marginal and the top band of the headset sticking up aggravates the
problem. It turns out though that the location of the inside nuts on the screws holding the fuselage end of the hinges is such that they
are very rarely a factor in head contact.
2) ".... put the nuts on the outside and bury them with micro flox..?
That should work provided that the nuts don't stick up so far that they make a bump on the fuselage finish. Also consider that someday
someone may want to remove the fuselage end of the hinges by unscrewing the machine screws holding them in place.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge."
==================================
---
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
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