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Gross Weight increase

 
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rockford67



Joined: 14 Jul 2011
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:40 am    Post subject: Gross Weight increase Reply with quote

Hey Pulsar owners,

I've just bought a Pulsar XP with a an 80hp R912. I'm wondering if anyone has any documentation about increasing the gross weight? It's currently at 1060 and I'd like to go to 1100 or possibly as high as 1140?

Thanks for any tips,
Chris


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:27 am    Post subject: Gross Weight increase Reply with quote

On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 09:40:11 -0700
"rockford67" <cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca> wrote:
Quote:

<cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca>

Hey Pulsar owners,

I've just bought a Pulsar XP with a an 80hp R912. I'm
wondering if anyone has any documentation about
increasing the gross weight? It's currently at 1060 and
I'd like to go to 1100 or possibly as high as 1140?

Thanks for any tips,
Chris




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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=346670#346670


Leave it where it is.

Clarke >
Quote:



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:37 am    Post subject: Gross Weight increase Reply with quote

Does your plane have wood or composite covered wings ? ? ?
 
Bernie Wilder
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:40 PM, rockford67 <cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca (cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca)> wrote:
[quote]--> Pulsar-List message posted by: "rockford67" <cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca (cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca)>

Hey Pulsar owners,

I've just bought a Pulsar XP with a an 80hp R912. I'm wondering if anyone has any documentation about increasing the gross weight? It's currently at 1060 and I'd like to go to 1100 or possibly as high as 1140?

Thanks for any tips,
Chris


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:05 pm    Post subject: Gross Weight increase Reply with quote

Hi Chris,
I have Pulsar XP and my GW is 1060. I have as well Rotax 912UL, 80 hp engine.

Thanks,
Esa
From: rockford67 <cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca>
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 11:40 AM
Subject: Gross Weight increase

--> Pulsar-List message posted by: "rockford67" <cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca (cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca)>

Hey Pulsar owners,

I've just bought a Pulsar XP with a an 80hp R912. I'm wondering if anyone has any documentation about increasing the gross weight? It's currently at 1060 and I'd like to go to 1100 or possibly as high as 1140?

Thanks for any tips,
Chris


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=346670#346670
/Navigator?Pulsar-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigatosp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
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rockford67



Joined: 14 Jul 2011
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:16 am    Post subject: Re: Gross Weight increase Reply with quote

Well, it seems there is no great desire to increase the load on the Pulsar's out there. My local inspector suggested that if the right calculations could be done, reducing the G limits could allow for more weight. I guess no one has done it. The higher G limits of the Pulsar suggest that there is some margin there but I'm not about to be the test pilot. Have to wonder about what the heavier examples are doing though? Mine weighs an unconfirmed 620 lbs which I think is heavy, but have a look at the one on Barnstormers for sale which weighs in at 800-something with a 1200 gross. After full fuel he has less than 250lbs left.

So, maybe the right question should be, what sort of things will reduce the empty weight? With a vacuum pump and a six pack, plus a radio and transponder there is definitely room to shed a few pounds, but I'd like to keep all these! A Dynon is a possibility and it would eliminate the pump. Some lighter radios are possible. But all this comes at great expense. I'd like to get the weight to 600lb but is that realistic? How many owners have Pulsars that weigh in at 600lbs or less? And if they do, what sort of equipment do they have?

Chris


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:50 am    Post subject: Gross Weight increase Reply with quote

Chris,

For weight comparisons, you need to know the exact model and possibly the
serial number of the other planes. I don't have the info but I'm sure
someone here can tell you when and how the various models changed and how
that relates to expected empty weight. Mine is a Series 2 with Rotax 912S
and weighed in at 685 lbs empty when first built. Like most planes, it has
gained weight over time with the addition of another auto pilot, CS prop,
fire repairs, etc. To compensate, I have lost a little weight.

Jim

--


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rockford67



Joined: 14 Jul 2011
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: Gross Weight increase Reply with quote

Hey Jim,
Mine is an XP 912. Serial # 462. I have composite spars and skins, and a heavier duty nose gear (one with an aerodynamic shape instead of a tube).
My manuals are a dec 1994 revision.

Another local guy suggested that body filler has added significant weight to some examples. I never did check his weight but his was a beauty with dynon, avmap, and some nice innovations for flap handle, ventilation, etc.

My biggest challenge is that I need a stainless firewall and the current one is aluminum. Engines gotta come out. I need a gascolator too and carb heat. It's just the regs here in Canada - no exceptions.

C


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:14 am    Post subject: Gross Weight increase Reply with quote

Chris,

Mine is #456, xp with 912 engine. It has a few "improvements" including an ss firewall, electric flaps, etc and weighs in at about 648 lbs. Can carry two lightweights like me, full fuel and a little baggage. Never felt the need for a greater weight limit.

Brian

Sent from my iPhone

On 19/07/2011, at 4:16 PM, "rockford67" <cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca> wrote:

Quote:


Well, it seems there is no great desire to increase the load on the Pulsar's out there. My local inspector suggested that if the right calculations could be done, reducing the G limits could allow for more weight. I guess no one has done it. The higher G limits of the Pulsar suggest that there is some margin there but I'm not about to be the test pilot. Have to wonder about what the heavier examples are doing though? Mine weighs an unconfirmed 620 lbs which I think is heavy, but have a look at the one on Barnstormers for sale which weighs in at 800-something with a 1200 gross. After full fuel he has less than 250lbs left.

So, maybe the right question should be, what sort of things will reduce the empty weight? With a vacuum pump and a six pack, plus a radio and transponder there is definitely room to shed a few pounds, but I'd like to keep all these! A Dynon is a possibility and it would eliminate the pump. Some lighter radios are possible. But all this comes at great expense. I'd like to get the weight to 600lb but is that realistic? How many owners have Pulsars that weigh in at 600lbs or less? And if they do, what sort of equipment do they have?

Chris




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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:42 am    Post subject: Gross Weight increase Reply with quote

When I built my XP serial #394 I stated the gross weight as 1100lb.
Composite Spars and skins on the wings.

On a certified plane you would need and STC and form 337 to change the gross weight.
Since experimentals do not have STC's or 337's a log book entry should make the change.
The FAA could consider it a major change and require 5 or 10 hours of test flying without passengers.

On the question of is the plane strong enough to handle the gross weight increase consider Bernie unplanned high speed test flight way over red line.
God Bless
Bob Heiser


On 7/19/2011 10:49 AM, pilot623 wrote: [quote] [quote]--> Pulsar-List message posted by: "pilot623" <pilot623(at)gmail.com> (pilot623(at)gmail.com) Chris, For weight comparisons, you need to know the exact model and possibly the serial number of the other planes. I don't have the info but I'm sure someone here can tell you when and how the various models changed and how that relates to expected empty weight. Mine is a Series 2 with Rotax 912S and weighed in at 685 lbs empty when first built. Like most planes, it has gained weight over time with the addition of another auto pilot, CS prop, fire repairs, etc. To compensate, I have lost a little weight. Jim --


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:10 pm    Post subject: Gross Weight increase Reply with quote

There are people  who are flying their Pulsars a little heavy.  Haven't heard of one breaking yet.
 
Of more concern to me was the CG calculation.  With my XP if I load to max gross and then run the wing fuel cells way down, I bust the aft CG limit.
 
Bernie Wilder
 
Bernie Wilder
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 11:49 AM, pilot623 <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Pulsar-List message posted by: "pilot623" <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)>

Chris,

For weight comparisons, you need to know the exact model and possibly the
serial number of the other planes. I don't have the info but I'm sure
someone here can tell you when and how the various models changed and how
that relates to expected empty weight. Mine is a Series 2 with Rotax 912S
and weighed in at 685 lbs empty when first built. Like most planes, it has
gained weight over time with the addition of another auto pilot, CS prop,
fire repairs, etc. To compensate, I have lost a little weight.

Jim

--


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freedom4life(at)xtra.co.n
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:50 pm    Post subject: Gross Weight increase Reply with quote

[quote] My Pulsar XP weighed in at 568lb when first constructed. 1060lb was the design limit for my model. Like all aircraft it has gained weight since with a constant speed prop and several other fitments. I have done the conversions into pounds to see what I sometimes carry and there have been times when it has been loaded to 1150lb. The main thing I have found you need to watch at these weights is the stall becomes more of a snap than a docile departure and as Bernie says if get low on fuel your CoG goes a little too far rearward. I am nearly always carrying 60lb in the luggage compartment as I take my Border Collie with me everywhere plus tools, tie downs and first aid kit etc. The dog weighs 44lb of this lot. So they will carry the load but I don't take it into any turbulence or throw it around when I am over gross.

Cliff McChesney
ZK KFC

There are people who are flying their Pulsars a little heavy. Haven't heard of one breaking yet.

Of more concern to me was the CG calculation. With my XP if I load to max gross and then run the wing fuel cells way down, I bust the aft CG limit.

Bernie Wilder

Bernie Wilder
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 11:49 AM, pilot623 <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Pulsar-List message posted by: "pilot623" <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)>

Chris,

For weight comparisons, you need to know the exact model and possibly the
serial number of the other planes. I don't have the info but I'm sure
someone here can tell you when and how the various models changed and how
that relates to expected empty weight. Mine is a Series 2 with Rotax 912S
and weighed in at 685 lbs empty when first built. Like most planes, it has
gained weight over time with the addition of another auto pilot, CS prop,
fire repairs, etc. To compensate, I have lost a little weight.

Jim

--


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:57 pm    Post subject: Gross Weight increase Reply with quote

From: Cliff McChesney <freedom4life(at)xtra.co.nz>
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, 19 July 2011, 22:48
Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: Gross Weight increase


[quote] My Pulsar XP weighed in at 568lb when first constructed. 1060lb was the design limit for my model. Like all aircraft it has gained weight since with a constant speed prop and several other fitments. I have done the conversions into pounds to see what I sometimes carry and there have been times when it has been loaded to 1150lb. The main thing I have found you need to watch at these weights is the stall becomes more of a snap than a docile departure and as Bernie says if get low on fuel your CoG goes a little too far rearward. I am nearly always carrying 60lb in the luggage compartment as I take my Border Collie with me everywhere plus tools, tie downs and first aid kit etc. The dog weighs 44lb of this lot. So they will carry the load but I don't take it into any turbulence or throw it around when I am over gross.

Cliff McChesney
ZK KFC

There are people who are flying their Pulsars a little heavy.  Haven't heard of one breaking yet.

Of more concern to me was the CG calculation. With my XP if I load to max gross and then run the wing fuel cells way down, I bust the aft CG limit.

Bernie Wilder

Bernie Wilder
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 11:49 AM, pilot623 <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Pulsar-List message posted by: "pilot623" <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)>

Chris,

For weight comparisons, you need to know the exact model and possibly the
serial number of the other planes. I don't have the info but I'm sure
someone here can tell you when and how the various models changed and how
that relates to expected empty weight. Mine is a Series 2 with Rotax 912S
and weighed in at 685 lbs empty when first built. Like most planes, it has
gained weight over time with the addition of another auto pilot, CS prop,
fire repairs, etc. To compensate, I have lost a little weight.

Jim

--


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sonja.englert(at)juno.com
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:18 am    Post subject: Gross Weight increase Reply with quote

Increasing the gross weight increases the wing spar stresses and reduces the margin for the landing gear. The Pulsar has a 4.4 g limit load factor, so basically the wings are capable of lifting 4.4 x 1060 lb = 4664 lb. If you increase the gross weight for example by 100 lb, the limit load factor would be reduced to 4.0 g. It is actually not quite as simple as this, but this shows essentially what happens. I would not recommend doing it.

Sonja

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:53 pm    Post subject: Gross Weight increase Reply with quote

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 07:16:47 -0700
"rockford67" <cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca> wrote:
Quote:

<cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca>

Well, it seems there is no great desire to increase the
load on the Pulsar's out there. My local inspector
suggested that if the right calculations could be done,
reducing the G limits could allow for more weight. I
guess no one has done it. The higher G limits of the
Pulsar suggest that there is some margin there but I'm
not about to be the test pilot. Have to wonder about what
the heavier examples are doing though? Mine weighs an
unconfirmed 620 lbs which I think is heavy, but have a
look at the one on Barnstormers for sale which weighs in
at 800-something with a 1200 gross. After full fuel he
has less than 250lbs left.

So, maybe the right question should be, what sort of
things will reduce the empty weight? With a vacuum pump
and a six pack, plus a radio and transponder there is
definitely room to shed a few pounds, but I'd like to
keep all these! A Dynon is a possibility and it would
eliminate the pump. Some lighter radios are possible. But
all this comes at great expense. I'd like to get the
weight to 600lb but is that realistic? How many owners
have Pulsars that weigh in at 600lbs or less? And if they
do, what sort of equipment do they have?

Chris




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=347029#347029


My XP Series I is 600 lbs. I understand the Series III comes in at about 700. Mark Browns 582 is under 500.

Clarke
Quote:




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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:58 pm    Post subject: Gross Weight increase Reply with quote

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:08:51 -0400
Bernard Wilder <bernard.wilder2(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
There are people who are flying their Pulsars a little
heavy. Haven't
heard of one breaking yet.

Of more concern to me was the CG calculation. With my
XP if I load to max
gross and then run the wing fuel cells way down, I bust
the aft CG limit.

Bernie Wilder

Bernie Wilder

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 11:49 AM, pilot623
<pilot623(at)gmail.com> wrote:

>
><pilot623(at)gmail.com>
>
> Chris,
>
> For weight comparisons, you need to know the exact model
>and possibly the
> serial number of the other planes. I don't have the info
>but I'm sure
> someone here can tell you when and how the various
>models changed and how
> that relates to expected empty weight. Mine is a Series
>2 with Rotax 912S
> and weighed in at 685 lbs empty when first built. Like
>most planes, it has
> gained weight over time with the addition of another
>auto pilot, CS prop,
> fire repairs, etc. To compensate, I have lost a little
>weight.
>
> Jim
>

With me and my wife and 2 galons of fuel ( worst case) we
can only have 30 lbs of luggage or we go aft CG.

Clarke
[quote]> --


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:55 pm    Post subject: Gross Weight increase Reply with quote

Pulsar XP N12RV composite wings and spars VFR panel w autopilot 570 lb empty.
I was careful when building to use just enough resin to wet the glass and used peel ply paper towels and sand bags to absorb the extra resin whenever possible.
Most of the extra weight is likely extra resin - hard to remove now.

God Bless
Bob Heiser


On 7/21/2011 7:52 PM, HUGH COULTER wrote: [quote]--> Pulsar-List message posted by: "HUGH COULTER" <ccoulter(at)wavecable.com> (ccoulter(at)wavecable.com)

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 07:16:47 -0700
"rockford67" <cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca> (cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca) wrote:
Quote:
--> Pulsar-List message posted by: "rockford67" <cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca> (cphorsten(at)yahoo.ca)

Well, it seems there is no great desire to increase the load on the Pulsar's out there. My local inspector suggested that if the right calculations could be done, reducing the G limits could allow for more weight. I guess no one has done it. The higher G limits of the Pulsar suggest that there is some margin there but I'm not about to be the test pilot. Have to wonder about what the heavier examples are doing though? Mine weighs an unconfirmed 620 lbs which I think is heavy, but have a look at the one on Barnstormers for sale which weighs in at 800-something with a 1200 gross. After full fuel he has less than 250lbs left.
So, maybe the right question should be, what sort of things will reduce the empty weight? With a vacuum pump and a six pack, plus a radio and transponder there is definitely room to shed a few pounds, but I'd like to keep all these! A Dynon is a possibility and it would eliminate the pump. Some lighter radios are possible. But all this comes at great expense. I'd like to get the weight to 600lb but is that realistic? How many owners have Pulsars that weigh in at 600lbs or less? And if they do, what sort of equipment do they have?

Chris




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=347029#347029


My XP Series I is 600 lbs. I understand the Series III comes in at about 700. Mark Browns 582 is under 500.

Clarke
Quote:




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rockford67



Joined: 14 Jul 2011
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Gross Weight increase Reply with quote

Bob I think you are right about the resin. Possibly one of the single biggest weight problems. Always been a metal airplane guy, but now that I've this glass bird I'm watching some you tube videos about layups etc. Seems the important thing is to use as little resin as possible. The extra resin doesn't add any strength. Wish I could still buy a new Pulsar kit. Would be fun to give it a try from scratch.

C


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