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Fuselage Firewall Gotchas?

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CJohnston(at)popsound.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 8:05 am Post subject: Fuselage Firewall Gotchas?

Hey all - 



I'm just about to get started on the firewall section of the fuse

(initial assembly) and I wondered about any gotchas in this area.  I

don't have the engine yet, and I'm concerned about opening up holes (or

not closing them) when I don't yet have the hardware that goes in there.

I've never built an airplane before, and I don't have a very good mental

picture of all the ins and outs of aircraft engines.  I'm using the

standard IO540 so there shouldn't be any nuttiness, but as I got ready

to open up the holes for the control cables, I got nervous.  Any info

would be appreciated.



Thanks

cj

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 8:42 am Post subject: Fuselage Firewall Gotchas?

CJ,



Don't open the holes in the recess if you are planning on doing the throttle quadrant. Tim Olson I think said he had to close his off and use different routing for the cable due to the quadrant. Use your C-frame to rivet all the 470-4 rivets...it will save you lots of heartache over bucking the rivets. That's all I have for you, I'm sure others will have some more.



Rick S.

40185

Fuse/finish

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

mike(at)cleavelandtool.co
Guest

Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 9:53 am Post subject: Fuselage Firewall Gotchas?

For those just starting the fuse. The c-frame with the cupped set in the

bottom, and the long backrivet set in the top is your best friend for all

the sub-assemblies (as mentioned below).  I even prefer it over the squeezer

when noise is not an issue.



Mike Lauritsen

Cleaveland Aircraft Tool

2225 First St. 

Boone, Iowa 50036

515-432-6794

mike(at)cleavelandtool.com

--

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 10:21 am Post subject: Fuselage Firewall Gotchas?

Yes, I had originally enlarged my 3 holes for the cables, but then when

I realized I wanted to use eyeball passthroughs for better routing,

I had to enlarge the holes.  Enlarging the outer 2 caused me to run

well into the center hole and basically chew up the metal in that

area.  I ended up making nice huge holes in a triangle pattern (upside

down) and then putting a new patch of Stainless over the area with

the holes drilled properly for the eyeballs.  It came out great, but

it was a pain, and would have been much easier if I hadn't originally

upsized those 3 holes.  Bottom line:  Decide if you're going quadrant

(I love mine) and then plan it right from the get-go.  You also

should *try* to drill those holes before you mount the engine.

In addition, consider eyeball passthroughs for those thick cables...it

helps make them easier to route to the proper angle as they go through

the firewall.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Rick wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 CJ,

 

 Don't open the holes in the recess if you are planning on doing the

 throttle quadrant. Tim Olson I think said he had to close his off and

 use different routing for the cable due to the quadrant. Use your

 C-frame to rivet all the 470-4 rivets...it will save you lots of

 heartache over bucking the rivets. That's all I have for you, I'm

 sure others will have some more.

 

 Rick S. 40185 Fuse/finish

CJohnston(at)popsound.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 10:41 am Post subject: Fuselage Firewall Gotchas?

Thanks all for posting.  I have an aversion to drilling/enlarging holes

before I am holding in my hand what is supposed to go in them.  I'll

wait til I figure things out before I go there.



cj

#40410

fuse



--

CJohnston(at)popsound.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 10:45 am Post subject: Fuselage Firewall Gotchas?

Also - I heard mention of sealing the firewall recess with proseal?  Did

I imagine that or is it a good idea?  I expect that cured proseal does

better in that harsh environment than silicon.  Thoughts?  I'd rather do

it during the installation than after the fact.



Thanks again

cj

#40410

fuse



--

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: Fuselage Firewall Gotchas?

It's a great idea to keep CO out of the cockpit.  Harder to do

after the fact, but I managed to do my QB fuse and was fine with that.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Chris Johnston wrote:

[quote] 

 

 Also - I heard mention of sealing the firewall recess with proseal?  Did

 I imagine that or is it a good idea?  I expect that cured proseal does

 better in that harsh environment than silicon.  Thoughts?  I'd rather do

 it during the installation than after the fact.

 

 Thanks again

 cj

 #40410

 fuse

 

 --

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 11:21 am Post subject: Fuselage Firewall Gotchas?

You didn't imagine it CJ,



It's in the plans to fill the corner holes of the recess with proseal. The plans also tell you to use proseal on the skin to firewall flanges when you rivet them, the only place you rivet early in the fuselage is the bottom flange minus a few rivets that get the short hinge material. The rest of the firewall doesn't get sealed and riveted until the cowl hinge section. You might want to consider picking up some of the high temp proseal from Van's in the tube to caulk the seam between the firewall and the bottom/side skins when you finally rivet the cowl hinge to the skins and firewall. One tube should allow for both the hinge and the interior corner. Plans say to use proseal intially on the fuselage then recommends the high temp stuff I believe or I just decided that's what I was going to use. I forget but it does call for proseal for sure. Mike makes a good point about the long back rivet set in the C-frame, I used the suicide set that came with my C-frame, but since it travels in a bronze bushing it's not a sucidal as if it were in a rivet gun.  



Rick S.

40185

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

Dick Sipp

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Hope, MI

Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject: Fuselage Firewall Gotchas?

I am fairly certain Van will sell you the documentation only for the 

electrical kit, and the firewall forward kit.  They did for me.  You can use 

these to "plan ahead" even if you are not ready to order the parts yet.



Dick Sipp

40065

fuselage completion

---

LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 1:33 pm Post subject: Fuselage Firewall Gotchas?

In a message dated 5/26/06 12:45 pm, ricksked(at)earthlink.net writes:

<< Use your C-frame to rivet all the 470-4 rivets...it will save you lots of 

heartache over bucking the rivets. >>

        keep talking...... I never thought of using the C-frame for seating 

rivets. Do you hit the sliding arm with the mallet or rivet gun?  What die goes 

in which part? (dome of rivet up or down?)  What does the job best?  Thanks 

for any tips!



Steve



Port St. Lucie, FL

772-475-5556



Sent from my Treo 600

CJohnston(at)popsound.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 1:58 pm Post subject: Fuselage Firewall Gotchas?

I checked vans site and they only sell one type of tank sealer.  Is this

the high temp stuff?  I noticed that they say that this is a new sealer

which replaces the older Proseal.  I saw on the label that it says

"Flamemaster".  I'm assuming that it somehow masters the flames?  Hehe.

But really, it is a higher temp version than the normal proseal from

places like Spruce?



cj

#40410	

fuse



--

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject: Fuselage Firewall Gotchas?

Rather than getting high-temp proseal, save yourself some time and pick up some fire rated caulk from your local Lowes Depot.  Makes more sense and more suitable to the task.



Michael Sausen

-10 #352 Fuselage



--

rv10builder(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject: Fuselage Firewall Gotchas?

Van's sells a firewall sealing compound (p/n MC-CS-1900) and gun (p/n 

TOOL SEALANT GUN).



Brian

#40308



Chris Johnston wrote:



[quote]



I checked vans site and they only sell one type of tank sealer.  Is this

the high temp stuff?  I noticed that they say that this is a new sealer

which replaces the older Proseal.  I saw on the label that it says

"Flamemaster".  I'm assuming that it somehow masters the flames?  Hehe.

But really, it is a higher temp version than the normal proseal from

places like Spruce?



cj

#40410	

fuse



--

jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject: Fuselage Firewall Gotchas?

Chris,

    Your timing is perfect, I just finished mine today!  Pay attention to 

the nutplates, most are on the aft side of the firewall but two are on the 

forward side, see plans.  Would be nice to decide if you're going to use a 

Matco parking brake.  If you do you should modify the brake line bracket and 

make a bracket for the parking brake valve.  Amen on the "C" frame and back 

riveting.  The stainless steel is very sharp, wear gloves and no I didn't 

enlarge those holes in the recess yet, thanks to following those ahead of me 

on this board and learning from their experience.



John

mike(at)cleavelandtool.co
Guest

Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 7:21 am Post subject: Fuselage Firewall Gotchas?

I have a rough video showing the c-frame being used for riveting.  I don't

have the voice over figured out yet so half of the voice over is bad, and

the other half is missing, but at least you can see it in action.



There are two sizes for different internet connections:

Small (1MB):  http://www.cleavelandtool.com/video/rsb12_low.wmv

Large (10MB): http://www.cleavelandtool.com/video/rsb12.wmv





Mike Lauritsen

Cleaveland Aircraft Tool

2225 First St. 

Boone, Iowa 50036

515-432-6794

mike(at)cleavelandtool.com

--

rnewman(at)lutron.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 7:49 am Post subject: Fuselage Firewall Gotchas?

I'm just finishing up the firewall, here's what I did.      I used my

rivet squeezer with a deep throat jaw for all the -4 rivets possible

around the periphery of the firewall.   This helped provide a lot

rigidity to the sheet metal and ensure the aluminum parts were perfectly

seated against the stainless.  Then I back-riveted all of the interior

rivets using a 3" by 20" chunk of steel laid flat on the work bench and

a back rivet set in the pneumatic rivet gun.   I found I can control the

mating of the parts much better with back riveting and squeezing as

opposed to using the c-frame and a hammer.  

Bob Newman

40176

plane #5,   slow build everything...  



 	  Quote: 	
		  >> ricksked(at)earthlink.net 5/26/2006 12:42:07 PM >>>

	




CJ,



Don't open the holes in the recess if you are planning on doing the

throttle quadrant. Tim Olson I think said he had to close his off and

use different routing for the cable due to the quadrant. Use your

C-frame to rivet all the 470-4 rivets...it will save you lots of

heartache over bucking the rivets. That's all I have for you, I'm sure

others will have some more.



Rick S.

40185

Fuse/finish

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