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Alodine inside fuel tanks?

 
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CJohnston(at)popsound.com
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:02 am    Post subject: Alodine inside fuel tanks? Reply with quote

Hey all -
Here's a question... Are some of you out there alodining internal fuel
tank parts? I was under the impression that that was no good.
Thoughts?

cj
#40410
wings
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net


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n8vim(at)arrl.net
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:40 pm    Post subject: Alodine inside fuel tanks? Reply with quote

I have been warned against it. The reason was that the Alodine will
eventually come off in the tanks. The only corrosion protection you need
is the Alclad and Proseal.

I was going to Alodine my tanks until I was beaten into submission by
this A&P/RV-8 builder.

-Jim 40384

Chris Johnston wrote:

Quote:


Hey all -
Here's a question... Are some of you out there alodining internal fuel
tank parts? I was under the impression that that was no good.
Thoughts?

cj
#40410
wings
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net








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johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:49 pm    Post subject: Alodine inside fuel tanks? Reply with quote

James -
For purposes of more clarification, I would be interested in hearing
about your beating (The A&P advise).

Alodine is a chemical conversion process and does not come off without
abrasion or chemical removal. Its purpose is to forestall or prevent
corrosion. Aircraft exterior skins which are chemically or physically
(bead blasted) paint stripped can still have the coating on years later.
I would be happy to provide pictures of its longevity. At our airline,
all tanks are alodined, primed, epoxy painted and prosealed. Jet A and
micro-organisms are a lot more intrusive than 100LL. Come to think of
it, I have never seen alodine peel off. Once corrosion begins it is
much like cancer. You have to remove it, covering does not work.

I think this is an OWT. Vans latest RVator in the spirit of "less,
cheaper and faster" addressed the ability to forgo the additional care
and attention to surface preparation. Alodine is not black magic, it
just takes more TLC than many builders are willing to invest in their
aircraft. It is an added investment which keeps on giving returns for
decades to come.

For Chris... I think alodine shows an additional measure of care and
consideration for the material longevity. Much like hangaring, cleaning
and non abusive use. Many are willing to pass up the added protection
in the pursuit of "Just Building it". It is all about flying sooner.

John - $00.02
DO NOT ARCHIVE

--


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n8vim(at)arrl.net
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:27 pm    Post subject: Alodine inside fuel tanks? Reply with quote

It had to do with the avgas slowly eating away, or chemically stripping,
the alodine from the inside of the tank. Since I had not seen, nor could
find any reference, any recommendation to alodine fuel tanks, I decided
its better not to. Again, it was explained to me that it takes a few
years, but it would happen.

On the other hand, I have been alodining and priming with PPG DP50LF
primer *everything*, up until the fuel tanks. If they corrode to
nothing, at least they're replaceable!

If you have datasheets, or references to using alodine inside fuel
tanks, I'd love to see it.

Thanks!

-Jim

John W. Cox wrote:

[quote]

James -
For purposes of more clarification, I would be interested in hearing
about your beating (The A&P advise).

Alodine is a chemical conversion process and does not come off without
abrasion or chemical removal. Its purpose is to forestall or prevent
corrosion. Aircraft exterior skins which are chemically or physically
(bead blasted) paint stripped can still have the coating on years later.
I would be happy to provide pictures of its longevity. At our airline,
all tanks are alodined, primed, epoxy painted and prosealed. Jet A and
micro-organisms are a lot more intrusive than 100LL. Come to think of
it, I have never seen alodine peel off. Once corrosion begins it is
much like cancer. You have to remove it, covering does not work.

I think this is an OWT. Vans latest RVator in the spirit of "less,
cheaper and faster" addressed the ability to forgo the additional care
and attention to surface preparation. Alodine is not black magic, it
just takes more TLC than many builders are willing to invest in their
aircraft. It is an added investment which keeps on giving returns for
decades to come.

For Chris... I think alodine shows an additional measure of care and
consideration for the material longevity. Much like hangaring, cleaning
and non abusive use. Many are willing to pass up the added protection
in the pursuit of "Just Building it". It is all about flying sooner.

John - $00.02
DO NOT ARCHIVE

--


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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:27 pm    Post subject: Alodine inside fuel tanks? Reply with quote

I gotta believe John Cox on this one. I've owned a plane
that had alodined tanks inside. They stay corrosion free
easily that way. Your A&P is probably confusing Alodining
with some sort of primer or tank sealer. There are many
things that people have done over the years inside tanks
and most things have ended up bad eventually, from bladders,
to coatings. Alodine is just a surface conversion. Sure,
if you scrub it hard and haven't rinsed it well, you'll
get some brown stuff to come off, but that's no worse
than any future corrosion would give off. And it's not
like it will ever come off as a flake. I doubt there's
any chance it could even plug a filter...it would just
flow through the engine and be burned with the fuel.
I alodined the inside of my tanks, but that's not saying
that anyone else should. I was just willing to take the
extra steps for long life.

Also, John isn't just a casual reference when it comes
to things related to aviation and inspection. For those
that know him, he's definitel got the credentials when it
comes to this sort of info. He's a great guy to get
to know when you have those uncommon questions.

Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
James Hein wrote:
[quote]

It had to do with the avgas slowly eating away, or chemically stripping,
the alodine from the inside of the tank. Since I had not seen, nor could
find any reference, any recommendation to alodine fuel tanks, I decided
its better not to. Again, it was explained to me that it takes a few
years, but it would happen.

On the other hand, I have been alodining and priming with PPG DP50LF
primer *everything*, up until the fuel tanks. If they corrode to
nothing, at least they're replaceable!

If you have datasheets, or references to using alodine inside fuel
tanks, I'd love to see it.

Thanks!

-Jim

John W. Cox wrote:

>
>
> James - For purposes of more clarification, I would be interested in
> hearing
> about your beating (The A&P advise).
>
> Alodine is a chemical conversion process and does not come off without
> abrasion or chemical removal. Its purpose is to forestall or prevent
> corrosion. Aircraft exterior skins which are chemically or physically
> (bead blasted) paint stripped can still have the coating on years later.
> I would be happy to provide pictures of its longevity. At our airline,
> all tanks are alodined, primed, epoxy painted and prosealed. Jet A and
> micro-organisms are a lot more intrusive than 100LL. Come to think of
> it, I have never seen alodine peel off. Once corrosion begins it is
> much like cancer. You have to remove it, covering does not work.
>
> I think this is an OWT. Vans latest RVator in the spirit of "less,
> cheaper and faster" addressed the ability to forgo the additional care
> and attention to surface preparation. Alodine is not black magic, it
> just takes more TLC than many builders are willing to invest in their
> aircraft. It is an added investment which keeps on giving returns for
> decades to come.
>
> For Chris... I think alodine shows an additional measure of care and
> consideration for the material longevity. Much like hangaring, cleaning
> and non abusive use. Many are willing to pass up the added protection
> in the pursuit of "Just Building it". It is all about flying sooner.
>
> John - $00.02
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> --


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n8vim(at)arrl.net
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:57 am    Post subject: Alodine inside fuel tanks? Reply with quote

Belief is one thing, documentation is another..... Anyone have any
documentation?

I would have alodined my tanks if I had documentation saying it was ok.
I have alodined everything else.

-Jim

Tim Olson wrote:

[quote]

I gotta believe John Cox on this one. I've owned a plane
that had alodined tanks inside. They stay corrosion free
easily that way. Your A&P is probably confusing Alodining
with some sort of primer or tank sealer. There are many
things that people have done over the years inside tanks
and most things have ended up bad eventually, from bladders,
to coatings. Alodine is just a surface conversion. Sure,
if you scrub it hard and haven't rinsed it well, you'll
get some brown stuff to come off, but that's no worse
than any future corrosion would give off. And it's not
like it will ever come off as a flake. I doubt there's
any chance it could even plug a filter...it would just
flow through the engine and be burned with the fuel.
I alodined the inside of my tanks, but that's not saying
that anyone else should. I was just willing to take the
extra steps for long life.

Also, John isn't just a casual reference when it comes
to things related to aviation and inspection. For those
that know him, he's definitel got the credentials when it
comes to this sort of info. He's a great guy to get
to know when you have those uncommon questions.

Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
James Hein wrote:

>
>
> It had to do with the avgas slowly eating away, or chemically
> stripping, the alodine from the inside of the tank. Since I had not
> seen, nor could find any reference, any recommendation to alodine
> fuel tanks, I decided its better not to. Again, it was explained to
> me that it takes a few years, but it would happen.
>
> On the other hand, I have been alodining and priming with PPG DP50LF
> primer *everything*, up until the fuel tanks. If they corrode to
> nothing, at least they're replaceable!
>
> If you have datasheets, or references to using alodine inside fuel
> tanks, I'd love to see it.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Jim
>
> John W. Cox wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> James - For purposes of more clarification, I would be interested in
>> hearing
>> about your beating (The A&P advise).
>>
>> Alodine is a chemical conversion process and does not come off without
>> abrasion or chemical removal. Its purpose is to forestall or prevent
>> corrosion. Aircraft exterior skins which are chemically or physically
>> (bead blasted) paint stripped can still have the coating on years
>> later.
>> I would be happy to provide pictures of its longevity. At our airline,
>> all tanks are alodined, primed, epoxy painted and prosealed. Jet A and
>> micro-organisms are a lot more intrusive than 100LL. Come to think of
>> it, I have never seen alodine peel off. Once corrosion begins it is
>> much like cancer. You have to remove it, covering does not work.
>>
>> I think this is an OWT. Vans latest RVator in the spirit of "less,
>> cheaper and faster" addressed the ability to forgo the additional care
>> and attention to surface preparation. Alodine is not black magic, it
>> just takes more TLC than many builders are willing to invest in their
>> aircraft. It is an added investment which keeps on giving returns for
>> decades to come.
>>
>> For Chris... I think alodine shows an additional measure of care and
>> consideration for the material longevity. Much like hangaring, cleaning
>> and non abusive use. Many are willing to pass up the added protection
>> in the pursuit of "Just Building it". It is all about flying sooner.
>>
>> John - $00.02
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>> --


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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:18 am    Post subject: Alodine inside fuel tanks? Reply with quote

  I also skipped the alodine process on my tanks because I "heard" it was a bad idea even though I couldn't really understand what would be the problem.  No one else knew why but they also had heard that.

  I trust John's knowledge enough to follow his advise on these matters and I wish I would have done this back then.  Fortunately I still can if I want as I have 25 gallons mixed up and the fuel tank is a tank after all.  I may still consider that If I get the urge before I attach wings.

Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
Do not archive

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CJohnston(at)popsound.com
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:58 am    Post subject: Alodine inside fuel tanks? Reply with quote

Hey all -

Thanks for all the input. I'll have to do some soul searching and
further research before I decide. I'll post any hard data that I come
up with. FWIW, everything else on the plane is alodined and primed, so
no, I'm not in the business of cutting corners. I just want to do
what's best. Or what I feel comfortable with....

cj
#40410
wings
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net

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lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:26 pm    Post subject: Alodine inside fuel tanks? Reply with quote

Alodine is a conversion coating .... not a paint! It doesn't come off
or flake of unless something scrapes through it. Paint primers like
zinc chromate, however, would be a no-no. Just MHO, of course.
Linn
do not archive
James Hein wrote:

Quote:


I have been warned against it. The reason was that the Alodine will
eventually come off in the tanks. The only corrosion protection you
need is the Alclad and Proseal.

I was going to Alodine my tanks until I was beaten into submission by
this A&P/RV-8 builder.

-Jim 40384

Chris Johnston wrote:

>
> <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
>
> Hey all - Here's a question... Are some of you out there alodining
> internal fuel
> tank parts? I was under the impression that that was no good.
> Thoughts?
>
> cj
> #40410
> wings
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
>
>
>

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deruiteraircraftservices(
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:31 am    Post subject: Alodine inside fuel tanks? Reply with quote

Hi All,

Linn, you are correct on the assesment of alodine. The only reason not to
alodine the inside of the tank is to aid adhesion of proseal. Any sealant
tends to come of easier when the surface has been alodined, including the
aerodynamic sealants used on the airliners on the skin joints.

---


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