Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Mod 73
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:15 am Post subject: Mod 73

No, they would distort the torque tube which must be perfectly circular

Graham

        From: Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>

 To: "europa-list(at)matronics.com" <europa-list(at)matronics.com> 

 Sent: Sunday, 14 October 2012, 14:04

 Subject: Re: Re: Mod 73

I fully understand the requirement for an interference pin fit to avoid the hammering out of the holes over time. 

That said, could "taper pins" be used?

cheers,

Pete

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:48 pm Post subject: Mod 73

You could drill and thread the heads of the parallel pins and use a bolt to Jack the out if needed.

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON

Sent: 14 October 2012 18:14

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Mod 73

 

No, they would distort the torque tube which must be perfectly circular



Graham



 

From: Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com (peterz(at)zutrasoft.com)>

To: "europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)" <europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)> 

Sent: Sunday, 14 October 2012, 14:04

Subject: Re: Re: Mod 73



 

I fully understand the requirement for an interference pin fit to avoid the hammering out of the holes over time. 



That said, could "taper pins" be used?



 



cheers,



Pete



 	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7

  [quote][b]

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:52 pm Post subject: Mod 73

Thinking out loud here,  what about very accurately machining substantive internal bolt bushings (made of a material to not cause galvanic corrosion), tap them all the way down the tube to their proper location, then bolt tight the two tubes without fear of distortion?

Just throwing it out there,

Cheers,

Pete



On Oct 14, 2012, at 4:47 PM, "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk (ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk)> wrote:



[quote]v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} <![endif]-->  <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->

You could drill and thread the heads of the parallel pins and use a bolt to Jack the out if needed.

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON

Sent: 14 October 2012 18:14

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: Re: Mod 73

 

No, they would distort the torque tube which must be perfectly circular



Graham



 

From: Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com (peterz(at)zutrasoft.com)>

To: "europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)" <europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)> 

Sent: Sunday, 14 October 2012, 14:04

Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Mod 73



 

I fully understand the requirement for an interference pin fit to avoid the hammering out of the holes over time. 



That said, could "taper pins" be used?



 



cheers,



Pete



 	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7

   	  Quote: 	
		   	
8

[b]

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:16 pm Post subject: Mod 73

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Alan,

 I am just getting around to the europa list this week.  Lots going on  in the Europa world and many folks are doing new and interesting stuff keeping  me busy.

 Regarding your woes:

 Our fix with the Loctite is quite strong.  I use a firm grip on  the trailing edge and try to wiggle it up and down and it should not move.   To check on a 25 hour inspection or after other maintenance where the stabs  are removed, I apply a firm force (20 pounds)  on the leading edge to  assure the Loctite is tight and the small amount of slop is removed.  I  prefer the pins to be properly installed.  Some new  builders can't drill a straight or round hole so even if it were bolted,  their work is loose.

 Your lack of building review or knowledge is really not a problem.   Review the manual on line and note that for the stab to be placed where it is,  it must be removable and installable, and it is.

  

 As for checking the stab on routine flights.  It is just like a  Cherokee or similar all moving stab.  Check for excessive play, such that  you can hear some movement but the control is solidly attached and it does not  move un-commanded by the stick.  For an example, if the front door rattles  when it is closed on your house, you adjust the stop and latch to fix it.   It is just proper maintenance and security.  Others put a thicker door  gasket on to fit it.  I prefer to fix it right, but the the gasket works  also.  So does the Loctite.

  

  

 As for repairs:  I am an advocate of finding a repairman that is  familiar with the type, or if no one is available to help, a good builder who  has gone through the trials is your best bet.  I would prefer in the UK you  take it to Nev Eyre or the factory.   If I find a really poorly built  tail plane torque tube, I go ahead and remove it from the aircraft and put it  together on the bench.  I note the problems and will normally build new  pins or install the 3/8 inch pins if not modified.  I do not blindly follow  the instructions and just hand drill the pin holes.  I go to a machine shop  and have the holes precisely bored to the pin size.  If the holes aren't  true I square them and have a pin machined to zero tolerance.  Then fit the  torque tube in the fuselage again and freeze the pins on dry ice to shrink them  and then rapidly install them.  The pins warm up and get really  tight. I then finish off the task by adding the Loctite.  It is done  then and should be good for many, many years.  While they are making  repairs, why not make the inspection holes slightly larger so you can work and  inspect easily.  I do, and it is easy to work on anything in my or my  customers tail area.

  

 Those who have excessively sloppy tail planes should consider removal and  pin replacement.  Also if there is excessive play, change out the bushings  in the stab as they do wear if the play is excessive.

  

 A good machinest will know his tools, capability and be able to make  everything right.  Someone like Nev, or the factory can fix you right  up.  Many experienced folks on this site will be able to help also, but it  takes time and a proper shop as winter is approaching.

  

 Remember, Stab control is not lost, we are preventing flutter potential  with the Loctite should the builder not quite get it right.  

  

 If you can move your stabs independently more than a fraction of an inch,  by grasping them with your hand and applying force, your pins are a  bit too loose.  Time to fix it.

 Once fixed properly so there is no play, enjoy the delight of the  pitch control system. 

  

 Keep a positive attitude and remember the above and enjoy your  airplane.  And please don't blame the original builder, as we are all  amateurs with our first plane.  I spent 450 man hours to bring my really  great deal flying used kit up to my standards (remember I am anal retentive  about airplanes and maintenance) and it flies great.  That said, I was  finishing up my annual inspection and found my turbo bracket cracked, and the  Binx nut holding the bracket was gone also, most probably due to turbo  vibration.  Oh well, it is just time and money.  The turbo will go to  Garret, and Lockwood Aviation will get another chunk of my money for  parts.  Ah aviation.

  

 Regards,

 Bud

  

  

 [quote]   ---

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:25 pm Post subject: Mod 73

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Nev,

 Thanks for that,

 We're peas in a pod I guess.

 I would have a shop full of customer built items that were thrown away due  to build errors.  You could build all the controls from just my  scraps.

 I too believe that if it didn't come out right, (and it usually doesn't the  first time) redo it or replace it, but learn from your mistakes.

  

 I do prefer not to force the pins in, I freeze them and then it is only a  tap through the nylon spacer.  When they expand, they are super  tight.  

  

 Regards and thanks,

 Bud

 [quote]   ---

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:41 pm Post subject: Mod 73

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Pete and Bob

 Had the same kind of idea.  Putting a slotted tube bored for the pins  and use flush riveted nutplates in the tube with bolts to clamp the tubes  together.  Install by sliding in the nutplated tube and aligning the  holes.  However, that still will distort the tubes when the bolts are  turned down making removal almost impossible as in tapered pins.  My other  idea was an expanding bolt.  A 1/4 inch bolt with a steel insert in the  center and two bronze bushings at the ends so that as the bolt is tightened, the  bronze expands like a rivet and fills the small gap, making it tight.  My  A&P said, why not just rivet it in place.  Just change the stab to  allow it to rotate a full 90 degrees to allow riveting.  

  

 However, what we have works, is maintainable and can be assembled by  amateurs using drift pins and bolts (which allow a loose fit) during assembly  and allows for a solid install provided the holes and pins are correctly sized  for zero clearance.

  

 Good ideas though,

 Bud

 [quote]   ---

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: Mod 73

Hi Bud,

Glad to see you back on the forum.



Mod 73 has been done on my Europa, but the Loctite repair has failed.

Movement is at the moment within Europa guide lines.



So what happens when Loctite is applied over Loctite ??

this would be a very quick and very easy fix, would it work.??



I have seen clamps with 3/8" pins going through the tube also grips the joint.

They look well made and will hold all firmly together so removing all play.

But will obviously be a pig of a job to do properly, as the tube has to be removed the the hole re drilled ( Reamed) by machine to zero tolerance. All this will cost quite a bit of money,



I purchased the aircraft about 3 months age, it has 350 hours on the airframe, One should not be having to do this, and i am not blaming the builder he made a good job of the aircraft, but many many Europa,s are or will be having to do this.

Its just not good enough, that we should be expected to accept this as the norm.



Its got to be repaired, i will feel a lot happier with zero play, so when i have it inspected i get a

 

    Inspector



Alan



PS i also note that there is a Mod on the Drive Pins, 1/4"pins increased to 3/8" pins locating into the Stabs.

No good having re enforced one bit , and get a failure here,

Is 1/4" OK , it does not appear to be Mandatory

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:38 pm Post subject: Mod 73

Hi! Alan .......you  up size as each size gets to the limit. But to be sure

get my clamps and only one upsize will ever be needed.

Bob Harrison G-PTAG



--

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:11 pm Post subject: Mod 73

Hi Bob,

I take it your clamps are available and fit all Europa Aircraft or do they have to be individually measured and made to size?

Cheers,

Tim



Tim Ward

12 Waiwetu Street

Fendalton,

Christchurch,  8052

New Zealand.



ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz



Ph 64 3 3515166

Mob 0210640221

On 15/10/2012, at 8:38 AM, "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk> wrote:



[quote] 

 

 Hi! Alan .......you  up size as each size gets to the limit. But to be sure

 get my clamps and only one upsize will ever be needed.

 Bob Harrison G-PTAG

 

 --

kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject: Mod 73

Hello Pete,

In principle I understand what you are suggesting. 

A few years ago, an engineer chap named John Baker here in Oz modified his Europa along those lines. On his system, each pin is replaced by two studs. There are two separate half round pieces placed within the tube and saddles are placed on the outside. The studs then clamp the inner and outer pieces together between which are the inner and outer torque tubes which get very tightly clamped. 

The only downside I can see is the cost of machining but if done in a production run I'm sure it could be done quite reasonably. 



Regards

Kingsley

On 15/10/2012, at 7:51 AM, Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com (peterz(at)zutrasoft.com)> wrote:

[quote]Thinking out loud here,  what about very accurately machining substantive internal bolt bushings (made of a material to not cause galvanic corrosion), tap them all the way down the tube to their proper location, then bolt tight the two tubes without fear of distortion?

Just throwing it out there,

Cheers,

Pete



On Oct 14, 2012, at 4:47 PM, "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk (ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} <![endif]-->  <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->

You could drill and thread the heads of the parallel pins and use a bolt to Jack the out if needed.

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON

Sent: 14 October 2012 18:14

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Mod 73

 

No, they would distort the torque tube which must be perfectly circular



Graham



 

From: Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com (peterz(at)zutrasoft.com)>

To: "europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)" <europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)> 

Sent: Sunday, 14 October 2012, 14:04

Subject: Re: Re: Mod 73



 

I fully understand the requirement for an interference pin fit to avoid the hammering out of the holes over time. 



That said, could "taper pins" be used?



 



cheers,



Pete



 	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7

   	  Quote: 	
		   	
8

 	
9

[b]

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:33 pm Post subject: Mod 73

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Alan,

 I have done the Loctite over Loctite.

 Just get the cleaning agent sold and recommended by Loctite and it will  work if properly cleaned and prepped.  It is necessary to allow the Loctite  to wick in.  Use the activator to speed setup if the weather is  cool.  I once tried to blow the Loctite into the gap with compressed  air.  However that air pushed the Loctite into the stab bearing.  The  next day I can say the stabs were very rigid.  I glued the whole thing  solid.  Other tricks are after a very good cleaning, tape off the stab and  use a vacuum cleaner to suck air and Loctite from the tube junction into the pin  holes and help the wicking process...  I also put the Loctite into the  outside of the tube slip joint (outside of the TP12 to TP4 tube) as well as  the inside.  Be sure to clean up any leftover Loctite.  It will stay  wet for a while in free air, and you will glue your stabs on if you don't use  Loctite activator.  Even if the tube is lubed with oil/grease.

  

 The thing is to do the SB first and see if that works.  If you decide  to do your own fix, heat the tube (See the Loctite Product sheets )to just too  hot to touch (about 100C) and the Loctite will release and allow  disassembly if you want to do that...

  

 You must do what makes you feel the best about the fix.

  

 I prefer to take out the whole assembly and fix it mechanically and use the  Loctite on top of that.  As far as clamping, I am aware of a person in  Australia who machined a piece of steel to the inner contour and reamed the  existing hole to the bolt diameter and clamped the assembly that way.  Bob  and others have machined clamps as well that work also.  But don't go into  those without knowing your dimensions of your tube.  There are to my  knowledge minor variations in the older Classic tube, the early XS and now our  latest XS stab parts and each vary by a small amount.  Should you decide to  make a clamping fixture, measure first please so they are sized properly and  don't crush the tube.

  

 I have worked on many aircraft and made, and corrected, many mistakes  (including my own).  Many of the jobs are just nasty time consuming  tasks.  It takes 3-5 times longer to do the job over, rather than doing it  right the first time...  The Loctite will work unless your pins spin like  tops in the hole.  How do I know, I removed a set of 1/4 inch pins and  replaced them with 5/16 pins.  In my haste I tried to do the job with the  mechanism in the tail through a 4 inch access hole.  I really  plumbered the job bad as the pins were under 5/16 inch.  Then I had the  opportunity to remove the whole stab mechanism and decided to remake not only  the holes in the stab tube to a P size (0.323 inches) and machined pins to  match, I also made the access holes larger and added another to the bottom on  the opposite side.  Total time to pull the stab and remake the access holes  was three days.  The machine shop took a week to make new holes and pins to  spec.  Install was another day.  Now it's perfect.  Like I said,  I am anal at times.

  

 Regards,

 Bud

 [quote]   ---

ptag.dev(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:54 pm Post subject: Mod 73

Hi! Alan,

Lots of advice from all quarters. However if you use loctite on an assembly with existing slop AND IF  you re-reem the holes make sure that BOTH stabilators are fixed completely NEUTRAL POSITION.  Otherwise you will have a hard to fly aircraft.

Regards

Bob Harrison

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly

Sent: 15 October 2012 06:33

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Mod 73

 

Alan,



I have done the Loctite over Loctite.



Just get the cleaning agent sold and recommended by Loctite and it will work if properly cleaned and prepped.  It is necessary to allow the Loctite to wick in.  Use the activator to speed setup if the weather is cool.  I once tried to blow the Loctite into the gap with compressed air.  However that air pushed the Loctite into the stab bearing.  The next day I can say the stabs were very rigid.  I glued the whole thing solid.  Other tricks are after a very good cleaning, tape off the stab and use a vacuum cleaner to suck air and Loctite from the tube junction into the pin holes and help the wicking process...  I also put the Loctite into the outside of the tube slip joint (outside of the TP12 to TP4 tube) as well as the inside.  Be sure to clean up any leftover Loctite.  It will stay wet for a while in free air, and you will glue your stabs on if you don't use Loctite activator.  Even if the tube is lubed with oil/grease.



 



The thing is to do the SB first and see if that works.  If you decide to do your own fix, heat the tube (See the Loctite Product sheets )to just too hot to touch (about 100C) and the Loctite will release and allow disassembly if you want to do that...



You must do what makes you feel the best about the fix.



 



I prefer to take out the whole assembly and fix it mechanically and use the Loctite on top of that.  As far as clamping, I am aware of a person in Australia who machined a piece of steel to the inner contour and reamed the existing hole to the bolt diameter and clamped the assembly that way.  Bob and others have machined clamps as well that work also.  But don't go into those without knowing your dimensions of your tube.  There are to my knowledge minor variations in the older Classic tube, the early XS and now our latest XS stab parts and each vary by a small amount.  Should you decide to make a clamping fixture, measure first please so they are sized properly and don't crush the tube.



 



I have worked on many aircraft and made, and corrected, many mistakes (including my own).  Many of the jobs are just nasty time consuming tasks.  It takes 3-5 times longer to do the job over, rather than doing it right the first time...  The Loctite will work unless your pins spin like tops in the hole.  How do I know, I removed a set of 1/4 inch pins and replaced them with 5/16 pins.  In my haste I tried to do the job with the mechanism in the tail through a 4 inch access hole.  I really plumbered the job bad as the pins were under 5/16 inch.  Then I had the opportunity to remove the whole stab mechanism and decided to remake not only the holes in the stab tube to a P size (0.323 inches) and machined pins to match, I also made the access holes larger and added another to the bottom on the opposite side.  Total time to pull the stab and remake the access holes was three days.  The machine shop took a week to make new holes and pins to spec.  Install was another day.  Now it's perfect.  Like I said, I am anal at times.



 



Regards,



Bud

[quote]

---

ptag.dev(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:59 pm Post subject: Mod 73

Hi! Tim ....I require a vernier measured outside diameter identified of each

drive bush, similarly the torque tube AND EACH side of the centre bush in

vertical and horizontal positions (some are out of round to the inside

diameter!)

So availability is 6 weeks from receipt of order, payment AND dimensions.

Regards

Bob Harrison.



--

Remi Guerner

Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:08 am Post subject: Mod 73

Pete,

I fitted taper pins a few years ago. They worked great for about 100 hours, then I got some play again. Obviously retightening them was only a temporary solution, so I used Loctite as per the Europa service bulletin and have flown several hundreds hours  since, still with no play. 

Remi Guerner

F-PGKL   XS Monowheel, approaching 1000 hours.





<<<< could "taper pins" be used?>>>>>>>>>>>

craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:16 am Post subject: Mod 73

I did mine in a similar manner, two alloy slugs machined to be and interference fit inside the  

Tube, then 10mm stainless bolt that goes right through the tube to clamp the whole lot together  

The problem with this approach is the slug needs to be carefully machined so the tube doesn’t distort  

When the bolts are tightened.  

   

Regards  

craig  

     

Hello Pete,  

    

   

    

In principle I understand what you are suggesting.   

    

   

    

A few years ago, an engineer chap named John Baker here in Oz modified his Europa along those lines. On his system, each pin is replaced by two studs. There are two separate half round pieces placed within the tube and saddles are placed on the outside. The studs then clamp the inner and outer pieces together between which are   

  

       [quote][b]

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Mod 73

Hello Bud,Bob, and All.

Bud, Bob, you are real gentlemen, many thanks, I have enough information on this, now i must decide which way to go.

Here in the UK i think the Mods have to be approved by the LAA, so even if you wanted to do them you would have to get LAA approval.

New Pins, and or Clamps are approved.

My idea would be a solid insert with a hole for a bolt, 4 of these would be required, this insert placed inside the tube with the holes aligned with the hole in the tube, a bolt with radial washer plates on each side, the whole lot bolted up, the inserts keeping the tube in shape and making a compression fit, very simple , and no movement. 

Even B and Q could do this.

I think someone has already put this idea forward, and the only problem suggested was the tight fit,(which it good),but would be difficult to break if you wanted to remove it.This would be a very rare event, and it may be a bit difficult,but could be done, and i am sure some one would come up with a good way of breaking the fit to removing it if needed.

However its also been suggested that this would take a couple of years to get LAA approval.

Regards

Alan

kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject: Mod 73

I notice that I also have 1mm play on one side. All the recommended solutions seem really complicated.And I believe that I have grease between the TP10 and the torque tube, so the Loctite would never last.

Why wouldn't this work ?:  Insert another pin on the outside of the fuselage. There is a gap between the  TP12 and the fuse skin. Remove some of the skin to gain access for the drill bit and the pin, the skin is easily repaired afterwards. Drill a hole through the top only. Then insert a close fitting machined piece of aluminum rod, pre-drilled . This piece would have a removable handle screwed into it near the edge to facilitate insertion and positioning. While rotating the insert apply Redux. Line up the holes again and now drill the bottom hole. Insert the pin or bolt with locknut and remove the temporary handle.

Karl



 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Mod 73

 From: alancarteresq(at)onetel.net

 Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 12:10:18 -0700

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>

 

 Hello Bud,Bob, and All.

 Bud, Bob, you are real gentlemen, many thanks, I have enough information on this, now i must decide which way to go.

 Here in the UK i think the Mods have to be approved by the LAA, so even if you wanted to do them you would have to get LAA approval.

 New Pins, and or Clamps are approved.

 My idea would be a solid insert with a hole for a bolt, 4 of these would be required, this insert placed inside the tube with the holes aligned with the hole in the tube, a bolt with radial washer plates on each side, the whole lot bolted up, the inserts keeping the tube in shape and making a compression fit, very simple , and no movement. 

 Even B and Q could do this.

 I think someone has already put this idea forward, and the only problem suggested was the tight fit,(which it good),but would be difficult to break if you wanted to remove it.This would be a very rare event, and it may be a bit difficult,but could be done, and i am sure some one would come up with a good way of breaking the fit to removing it if needed.

 However its also been suggested that this would take a couple of years to get LAA approval.

 Regards

 Alan

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385389#385389

 

 

 

&gt======================
	


&gt=====================

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 


	




 		 	   		  

  [quote][b]

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: Mod 73

Hi Carl.

1 mm is OK ,is this 1 mm at the edge of the tail plane?

I think you have to get to the TP9 in the centre horn pins

Alan

kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:09 pm Post subject: Mod 73

No, this is the displacement on the tube.





[quote] Subject: Re: Mod 73

 From: alancarteresq(at)onetel.net

 Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 13:53:45 -0700

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>

 

 Hi Carl.

 1 mm is OK ,is this 1 mm at the edge of the tail plane?

 I think you have to get to the TP9 in the centre horn pins

 Alan

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385394#385394

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Mod 73

Hi Carl.

I have the same 1mm. at the TP12 PLATE.

If you are saying you have removed the Stabilator and are now gripping the TB12 plate and it moves 1mm , this would scale up to about 1/2" at the trailing edge of the Stabilator if it was in-place.



There are pins on the TB12 and on the TB9  your idea would only make good the TB12 pins,  and the play might be in the TB9 Bell-crank in the centre of the fuselage.  



 I agree, Yes it is complicated,

Alan

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next
Page 2 of 4

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum