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Quick Build Fuselage Advice

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dfritz(at)bpgsim.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:34 pm Post subject: Quick Build Fuselage Advice

I am starting on my quick build fuselage trying to discover what has 

been done and what is left to do.  I have removed the floor panels, 

except for the front panels, and found only two washers.  I think I will 

inspect under the front floor panels using an inspection camera.  The 

heat vent tee, VA-175, in mid fuselage points to the rear of the 

fuselage, not up as shown in the plans.  I suspect that needs changing.  

There is an extra fuel valve mount, F-1048C1, taped to the installed 

mount stating that the mount is installed inverted and needs to be 

changed.  I am installing an Andair valve and from reading Tim's pages I 

suspect that I will need to fabricate and bracket so I will need to 

simply remove the current one.  Insulation seems something that needs 

addressing fairly soon.  Insulation for the firewall and the tunnel 

seems to make sense.  I am wondering what insulating the floor would 

gain as the noise comes from in front of the firewall, not below the 

fuselage.  At the risk of starting an insulation war, what insulation 

would you recommend?  I know Tim mentioned Flightline Interiors.



There appears to be a lot of extras that need to be procured to finish 

the plane and at this point in time the issues seem to be ones of timing 

the procurement and installations so that something that has been done 

does not need to be undone to install an item. Looking at the jig saw 

puzzle and trying to see all the pieces and how they fit together.



Dave



-- 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dave Fritzsche

40813

Puyallup, WA

Fuselage

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Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Quick Build Fuselage Advice

Just be aware that since Tim built his plane Vans has changed the plumbing and fuel valve location.

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Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

EdKranz

Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Posts: 132
Location: Hastings, MN

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:43 pm Post subject: Quick Build Fuselage Advice

I'm just a little ahead of you, and though I went slow build, it's mostly the same from this point on.



You should be able to simply twist the heat vent tee. It's just friction fitted to the fittings that are riveted to the tunnel sides. 

 



As for figuring out what you need to get when, I've just been doing a lot of reading of other's build logs. Some thing that you'll need to figure out coming up soon are:

 -- Where you're going to route conduit to the rear

-- Antenna choices if you're going to mount them on the belly

-- Whether or not you want access panels for your step bolts

 -- Fuel Pump

-- Fuel Valve

-- Hard line or flexible line for fuel and brakes

Those are just a few of the things I'm working thru right now off the top of my head. Some items may have a significant delay in shipment. I haven't yet had building held up by shipping delays, but I'm sure it's only a matter of time.

 



Still many more decisions to come!



On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Dave Fritzsche (Building) <dfritz(at)bpgsim.com (dfritz(at)bpgsim.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Dave Fritzsche (Building)" <dfritz(at)bpgsim.com (dfritz(at)bpgsim.com)>

  

 I am starting on my quick build fuselage trying to discover what has been done and what is left to do.  I have removed the floor panels, except for the front panels, and found only two washers.  I think I will inspect under the front floor panels using an inspection camera.  The heat vent tee, VA-175, in mid fuselage points to the rear of the fuselage, not up as shown in the plans.  I suspect that needs changing.  There is an extra fuel valve mount, F-1048C1, taped to the installed mount stating that the mount is installed inverted and needs to be changed.  I am installing an Andair valve and from reading Tim's pages I suspect that I will need to fabricate and bracket so I will need to simply remove the current one.  Insulation seems something that needs addressing fairly soon.  Insulation for the firewall and the tunnel seems to make sense.  I am wondering what insulating the floor would gain as the noise comes from in front of the firewall, not below the fuselage.  At the risk of starting an insulation war, what insulation would you recommend?  I know Tim mentioned Flightline Interiors.

  

 There appears to be a lot of extras that need to be procured to finish the plane and at this point in time the issues seem to be ones of timing the procurement and installations so that something that has been done does not need to be undone to install an item. Looking at the jig saw puzzle and trying to see all the pieces and how they fit together.

  

 Dave

 

 -- 

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 Dave Fritzsche

 40813

 Puyallup, WA

 Fuselage

 

 

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Ed Kranz
RV10
Finishing
www.edandcolleen.com

nukeflyboy

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Granbury, TX

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:38 am Post subject: Re: Quick Build Fuselage Advice

I used fiberglass insulation under the forward floor panels.  This can be added via the lightening holes on the aft side of the floor so you don't have to remove the panel.  In the rear seat and baggage compartment I used closed cell foam.  Having said that I am not convinced that it is worth it.  For heat insulation you need to focus on the firewall and tunnel.  Most of the noise in the airplane comes from the air vents, followed by engine.  I doubt the floor insulation does much.



As stated in the earlier response this is the time to figure your electrical routing, i.e., conduit and big cable runs.  Under the floor is a good place for this, in particular thru the baggage compartment.  Don't forget electrical and antenna runs to the wings which will pass via the center section fuselage.  Consider adding conduit from front to aft of the baggage bulkhead, conduit from front to each wing opening, and front to the center section (for things like flap motor, rear seat headphones, and antenna cable).

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Dave Moore
RV-6 built and sold
RV-10 built and flying

AirMike

Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:49 pm Post subject: Quick Build Fuselage Advice

I affirm what Dave Moore said...."run lots of the conduit now." Excellent advice. I also put in an inspection plate (2) for the boarding step WHEN it loosens (which it will). It is also a good idea to put it in just for corrosion inspections. There is an excellent and ultra light insulation that I found at OSH. I also have the heavy - foil backed fiberglass on the cowl and firewall. I never had the tunnel heat issue. My tunnel is NOT insulated. I found that the fuel lines are a real pain, so I bought the Bonaco kit - excellent choice and saved me a lot of swearing. I have nothing but kuddos for the Vans QB kit that was delivered to me in 2007.

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Q/B - sold.

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:29 pm Post subject: Quick Build Fuselage Advice

I seem to recall folks have had trouble with the AN 3 bolts Vans supplies for steps wearing the hole and loosening. There are three possible upgrades. Putting inspection plate on baggage floor as mentioned, reaming the holes up to AN 4 size, and inserting dowel of wood, or milled aluminum or steel inside the step pipe to prevent the pipe from being distorted by tightening the bolt(with appropriate anti-corrosive treatment). I have done the first two items.

 

On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 9:49 PM, AirMike <Mikeabel(at)pacbell.net (Mikeabel(at)pacbell.net)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>

 

 I affirm what Dave Moore said...."run lots of the conduit now." Excellent advice. I also put in an inspection plate (2) for the boarding step WHEN it loosens (which it will). It is also a good idea to put it in just for corrosion inspections. There is an excellent and ultra light insulation that I found at OSH. I also have the heavy - foil backed fiberglass on the cowl and firewall. I never had the tunnel heat issue. My tunnel is NOT insulated. I found that the fuel lines are a real pain, so I bought the Bonaco kit - excellent choice and saved me a lot of swearing. I have nothing but kuddos for the Vans QB kit that was delivered to me in 2007.

  

 --------

 See you OSH '13

 Q/B - flying 3 yrs.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402047#402047

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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-- 



 - sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm

  

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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:04 am Post subject: Quick Build Fuselage Advice

Some thoughts from a 2011 completion       and 300 hours later.

       

       On 6/3/2013 11:42 PM, Ed Kranz wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		         As for figuring out what you need to get when, I've         just been doing a lot of reading of other's build logs. Some         thing that you'll need to figure out coming up soon are:                    -- Where you're going to route conduit to the rear

       

     	
     I went with the Vans wiring kit routing hardware to run fat power     wires and some other lines.  It has a few brackets and and clamp     locations.  I did not buy or use the Vans wiring kit or     configuration, just used the plans to mimic their routing and order     a few select pieces (plus some access hatches and avionic mounts for     the tail).  Then, I ran 2 empty conduits (Van's material) for     running all the avionics stuff that were going to be finalized after     the floor was closed.  3 empty conduits is even better.  This has     all worked very well.

      	  Quote: 	
		                  -- Antenna choices if you're going to mount them           on the belly

       

     	
     I had some churn around antenna choices.  Ultimately I found that     with one comm antenna installed under the floor before the floor is     closed up, additional antennas could be added  after completion     (e.g. transponder, another comm under the seat,  ADS-B and ELT stuff     is all in the tailcone and remains accessible (see desirability of     3rd conduit))

      	  Quote: 	
		                  -- Whether or not you want access panels for your           step bolts

                    -- Fuel Pump

         -- Fuel Valve

         -- Hard line or flexible line for fuel and brakes

       

     	
     I did it exactly per Vans plus Andair mods.  Still doing fine at     300hours on a rough field (think brake lines).  You don't have to     learn to bend aluminum tubing if you get the flexible lines I     guess.  I learned but have been unable to transfer the skills to     much of anything else.

      	  Quote: 	
		         

         Still many more decisions to come!

       

     	
     The decisions are the real joy of the project. not withstanding that     Vans per the plans works too.  "Less is more" applies as does "but     Mama, that's where the fun is"  

      	  Quote: 	
		         

         

         On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Dave           Fritzsche (Building) <dfritz(at)bpgsim.com (dfritz(at)bpgsim.com)> wrote:

            	  Quote: 	
		  -->             RV10-List message posted by: "Dave Fritzsche (Building)"             <dfritz(at)bpgsim.com (dfritz(at)bpgsim.com)>

             

             I am starting on my quick build fuselage trying to discover             what has been done and what is left to do.  I have removed             the floor panels, except for the front panels, and found             only two washers.  I think I will inspect under the front             floor panels using an inspection camera.  The heat vent tee,             VA-175, in mid fuselage points to the rear of the fuselage,             not up as shown in the plans.  I suspect that needs             changing.  There is an extra fuel valve mount, F-1048C1,             taped to the installed mount stating that the mount is             installed inverted and needs to be changed.  I am installing             an Andair valve and from reading Tim's pages I suspect that             I will need to fabricate and bracket so I will need to             simply remove the current one.  Insulation seems something             that needs addressing fairly soon.  Insulation for the             firewall and the tunnel seems to make sense.  I am wondering             what insulating the floor would gain as the noise comes from             in front of the firewall, not below the fuselage.  At the             risk of starting an insulation war, what insulation would             you recommend?  I know Tim mentioned Flightline Interiors.

           	
         

       

     	
     I have a Flightline interior which probably deadens some sound.  We     like it because it looks nice and works well.  Otherwise we depend     on Bose (or your favorite ANL device).  I put some low tech material     on the back of the firewall, don't know if it does anything.  You     don't need to insulate in my opinion.  A painted interior and good     ANL headsets would seem to do the trick.  It's up to you where you     want to spend your time.

     [quote]                            	  Quote: 	
		               

             There appears to be a lot of extras that need to be procured             to finish the plane and at this point in time the issues             seem to be ones of timing the procurement and installations             so that something that has been done does not need to be             undone to install an item. Looking at the jig saw puzzle and             trying to see all the pieces and how they fit together.

             

             Dave

           	
         

       

     [b]

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johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Quick Build Fuselage Advice

 	  Kelly McMullen wrote: 	
		  I seem to recall folks have had trouble with the AN 3 bolts Vans supplies for steps wearing the hole and loosening. There are three possible upgrades. Putting inspection plate on baggage floor as mentioned, reaming the holes up to AN 4 size, and inserting dowel of wood, or milled aluminum or steel inside the step pipe to prevent the pipe from being distorted by tightening the bolt(with appropriate anti-corrosive treatment). I have done the first two items.

 	




I used an AN174 close tolerance bolt from Spruce. No wobble yet.

John

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