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kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
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 Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:57 am Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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Hi
As some of may recall, I took the path less travelled and put a 3.6L Subie on my -10. Over the past year I have been quite happy with the performance that is to say until I had a piston problem. As I a) haven’t been able to determine the root cause of the problem and b) determine how to prevent it, I have decided to retrofit an IO540. Although there many 3.0L Subies flying on small RV’s, there are not many 3.6L engines which complicates matters.
I plan to get a Barret engine but still need to decide on a governor / propeller combination. Van’s Hartzell seems like a good choice especially from a cost perspective but I would be interested in knowing the other options. From what I have read, 2 blade props are best below 300HP but there also seems to be a number of 3 blade options as well.
Any info appreciated.
Cheers
Les
#40643
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rene(at)felker.com
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:15 am Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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Just for reference. I am very happy with my Hartzell IO-540 (260 HP) combination. I fly out of Utah, field elevation 4460 and have operated hot and heavy out of other higher altitude fields. Climb performance with that combination is more than adequate. Having not done any side by side comparison on 2 vs 3 blades I do not know the performance differences. I think there is some use full information in the archive on that type of testing.
One thing to note, I would not like anything that made getting the lower cowling on and off more difficult.
The three blade props do look sexy and fast……
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2014 10:55 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
Hi
As some of may recall, I took the path less travelled and put a 3.6L Subie on my -10. Over the past year I have been quite happy with the performance that is to say until I had a piston problem. As I a) haven’t been able to determine the root cause of the problem and b) determine how to prevent it, I have decided to retrofit an IO540. Although there many 3.0L Subies flying on small RV’s, there are not many 3.6L engines which complicates matters.
I plan to get a Barret engine but still need to decide on a governor / propeller combination. Van’s Hartzell seems like a good choice especially from a cost perspective but I would be interested in knowing the other options. From what I have read, 2 blade props are best below 300HP but there also seems to be a number of 3 blade options as well.
Any info appreciated.
Cheers
Les
#40643 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
01234567
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:45 am Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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The Van’s two blade Hartzell blended airfoil is, my opinion, the best performance value out there.
For governors, recommend looking at the PCU-5000. I’ve used them on two RVs and they have been flawless. I got both via group buys on Van’s Air Force at significant discounts.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2014 1:15 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
Just for reference. I am very happy with my Hartzell IO-540 (260 HP) combination. I fly out of Utah, field elevation 4460 and have operated hot and heavy out of other higher altitude fields. Climb performance with that combination is more than adequate. Having not done any side by side comparison on 2 vs 3 blades I do not know the performance differences. I think there is some use full information in the archive on that type of testing.
One thing to note, I would not like anything that made getting the lower cowling on and off more difficult.
The three blade props do look sexy and fast……
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2014 10:55 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
Hi
As some of may recall, I took the path less travelled and put a 3.6L Subie on my -10. Over the past year I have been quite happy with the performance that is to say until I had a piston problem. As I a) haven’t been able to determine the root cause of the problem and b) determine how to prevent it, I have decided to retrofit an IO540. Although there many 3.0L Subies flying on small RV’s, there are not many 3.6L engines which complicates matters.
I plan to get a Barret engine but still need to decide on a governor / propeller combination. Van’s Hartzell seems like a good choice especially from a cost perspective but I would be interested in knowing the other options. From what I have read, 2 blade props are best below 300HP but there also seems to be a number of 3 blade options as well.
Any info appreciated.
Cheers
Les
#40643 012345678901234567
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jdriggs49(at)msn.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:15 am Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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I have a Barrett IO-540. What an engine!!!
Couldn't be happier. If you use their cold air induction you will need the Show Planes cowl which works very well.
I have a MT three blade prop and it seems to be almost as fast as the Hartzell blended two blade
But it really out climbs it. Also a function of more horse power.
From: rene(at)felker.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 11:14:53 -0600
Just for reference. I am very happy with my Hartzell IO-540 (260 HP) combination. I fly out of Utah, field elevation 4460 and have operated hot and heavy out of other higher altitude fields. Climb performance with that combination is more than adequate. Having not done any side by side comparison on 2 vs 3 blades I do not know the performance differences. I think there is some use full information in the archive on that type of testing.
One thing to note, I would not like anything that made getting the lower cowling on and off more difficult.
The three blade props do look sexy and fast……
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2014 10:55 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
Hi
As some of may recall, I took the path less travelled and put a 3.6L Subie on my -10. Over the past year I have been quite happy with the performance that is to say until I had a piston problem. As I a) haven’t been able to determine the root cause of the problem and b) determine how to prevent it, I have decided to retrofit an IO540. Although there many 3.0L Subies flying on small RV’s, there are not many 3.6L engines which complicates matters.
I plan to get a Barret engine but still need to decide on a governor / propeller combination. Van’s Hartzell seems like a good choice especially from a cost perspective but I would be interested in knowing the other options. From what I have read, 2 blade props are best below 300HP but there also seems to be a number of 3 blade options as well.
Any info appreciated.
Cheers
Les
#40643 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
01234567
8
[quote][b]
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kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:15 am Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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Hi Rene
I agree with the sexy bit. I will miss my 4 blade Quinti prop....
Les
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 1, 2014, at 11:14 AM, "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com (rene(at)felker.com)> wrote:
[quote] <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Just for reference. I am very happy with my Hartzell IO-540 (260 HP) combination. I fly out of Utah, field elevation 4460 and have operated hot and heavy out of other higher altitude fields. Climb performance with that combination is more than adequate. Having not done any side by side comparison on 2 vs 3 blades I do not know the performance differences. I think there is some use full information in the archive on that type of testing.
One thing to note, I would not like anything that made getting the lower cowling on and off more difficult.
The three blade props do look sexy and fast……
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2014 10:55 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
Hi
As some of may recall, I took the path less travelled and put a 3.6L Subie on my -10. Over the past year I have been quite happy with the performance that is to say until I had a piston problem. As I a) haven’t been able to determine the root cause of the problem and b) determine how to prevent it, I have decided to retrofit an IO540. Although there many 3.0L Subies flying on small RV’s, there are not many 3.6L engines which complicates matters.
I plan to get a Barret engine but still need to decide on a governor / propeller combination. Van’s Hartzell seems like a good choice especially from a cost perspective but I would be interested in knowing the other options. From what I have read, 2 blade props are best below 300HP but there also seems to be a number of 3 blade options as well.
Any info appreciated.
Cheers
Les
#40643 01234567
8
[b]
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kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:32 am Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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Danny
What was the vist of the MT? I have heard that they are quite spendy.
Cheers
Les
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 1, 2014, at 12:14 PM, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)> wrote:
[quote] I have a Barrett IO-540. What an engine!!!
Couldn't be happier. If you use their cold air induction you will need the Show Planes cowl which works very well.
I have a MT three blade prop and it seems to be almost as fast as the Hartzell blended two blade
But it really out climbs it. Also a function of more horse power.
From: rene(at)felker.com (rene(at)felker.com)
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 11:14:53 -0600
Just for reference. I am very happy with my Hartzell IO-540 (260 HP) combination. I fly out of Utah, field elevation 4460 and have operated hot and heavy out of other higher altitude fields. Climb performance with that combination is more than adequate. Having not done any side by side comparison on 2 vs 3 blades I do not know the performance differences. I think there is some use full information in the archive on that type of testing.
One thing to note, I would not like anything that made getting the lower cowling on and off more difficult.
The three blade props do look sexy and fast……
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2014 10:55 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
Hi
As some of may recall, I took the path less travelled and put a 3.6L Subie on my -10. Over the past year I have been quite happy with the performance that is to say until I had a piston problem. As I a) haven’t been able to determine the root cause of the problem and b) determine how to prevent it, I have decided to retrofit an IO540. Although there many 3.0L Subies flying on small RV’s, there are not many 3.6L engines which complicates matters.
I plan to get a Barret engine but still need to decide on a governor / propeller combination. Van’s Hartzell seems like a good choice especially from a cost perspective but I would be interested in knowing the other options. From what I have read, 2 blade props are best below 300HP but there also seems to be a number of 3 blade options as well.
Any info appreciated.
Cheers
Les
#40643 01234567
8
9
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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michaelrorth
Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:47 am Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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FOR SALE
3 ENGINES & 1 PROP
ENGINE #1-RIGHT
CONTINENTAL 10-470L
S/N 91968-5-L
TTSO 1489.8
COMPLETE ENGINE & PROPELLER PITCH CONTROL.
COMPLETE LOGS.
REMOVED FROM BEECHCRAFT BARON THAT LANDED GEAR-UP. INCIDENT HAS NOT BEEN ENTERED INTO ENGINE LOG.
OIL DRAINED AND SHOWED NO SIGN OF CONTAMINATION.
OIL-PAN DROPPED AND VISUAL INSPECTION SHOWED NO SIGN OF DAMAGE.
MY FEELING IS THAT THIS ENGINE DID NOT SUFFER ANY DAMAGE AS THE RESULT OF THE ACCIDENT.
COULD BE USED IN A/C, AIRBOAT, OR HOVERCRAFT.
PRICE $5,000 USD; YOU PAY SHIPPING.
ENGINE #2-LEFT
CONTINENTAL 10-470L
S/N 91945-5-L
TTSO 1457.8
COMPLETE ENGINE & PROPELLER PITCH CONTROL.
COMPLETE LOGS
REMOVED FROM BEECHCRAFT BARON THAT LANDED GEAR-UP. INCIDENT HAS NOT BEEN ENTERED INTO ENGINE LOG.
OIL DRAINED AND SHOWED NO SIGN OF CONTAMINATION.
OIL-PAN DROPPED AND VISUAL INSPECTION SHOWED NO SIGN OF DAMAGE.
MY FEELING IS THAT THIS ENGINE DID NOT SUFFER ANY DAMAGE AS THE RESULT OF THE ACCIDENT.
COULD BE USED IN A/C, AIRBOAT, OR HOVERCRAFT.
PRICE $5,000 USD; YOU PAY SHIPPING.
ENGINE #3
LYCOMING IO-540 G1D5
S/N L-9927-48
TTSO 5.43
COMPLETE LOGS
PROP #1
HARTZELL HC-92WK-1DW
TTSO 2.12
S/N S/N AC-206
PRICE-ENGINE & PROP $18,000 USD. YOU PAY SHIPPING.
THIS IS HOW THE ENGINE WAS DESCRIBED TO ME:
“…. purchased the engine and prop from Westair International Company, Monument, CO 80132 Jim Cullen is the owner. (719) 481-2286 He sold a number of these engines and was recommended to me by Murphy. They thought this was a perfect engine for their plane. I called a fellow who bought one from him to check up on his transaction. He was very pleased with Jim and the engine and prop. (His name is John Knutson, Chicago, (312) 642 0335 home (312) 383 1300 x 104 work) I believe he was putting it into his homebuilt. I haven't talked to him in ten years so I don't know if the numbers are still good. The engine arrived as promised and is complete with magnetos, harness, fuel pump, Bendix injection system, alternator and starter. It is preserved, and includes platinum spark plugs (not installed--the plug holes have the things in them that absorb moisture--I can't remember what they are called!) There are three tech manuals also. It is still in the shipping crate which has always been in my heated shop. I looked in it today and it looks good. The IO-540 G1D5 engine serial number is L-9927-48. It is rated as 290 HP, max rpm 2575. The Hartzell Propeller Model HC-92WK-1DW S/N AC-206 The engine has a total of 799.22 hours since new. It has 5.43 hours since overhaul. The propeller has a total of 731.12 with 2.12 since overhaul. There are two complete log books for the engine and one for the propeller.
My concern before buying was that they came out of an IAR 823 airplane which was a plane used by the Romanian Air Force! (I Googled it and it looks like a Mooney to me.) I checked with several engine building people (including the company that overhauled my Cessna engine) who told me the overhaul facility in Romania is noted for quality services. (BOAC had them do all their engine maintenance.) A fellow on the Murphy group, George Coy (who now sells M14P radials and was building a Moose--put this IO-540 in his plane. I asked him why not use one of his radials and he said he was going to put it on floats in Vermont and could not have any oil dripping into their pristine lakes. I guess coffee cans wired under the jugs does not meet environmental standards for catching 100% of the oil!
The log books are all in Romanian but I had someone go over them with me (they spoke Romanian) and they are very detailed and complete. I was going to sit down with this person and rewrite each entry but haven't yet. I got a new English engine log from Jim Cullen--I'm not sure it is really necessary to translate the old ones. I feel comfortable with the accuracy of the logs and the work that has been done. A mechanic where I get my Cessna serviced was interested in using the engine for his tow plane--checked out the engine and logs, said it looked good but then found his mounts or something were different and it wouldn't fit. He offered my $20,000 for it! (I should have paid for his new mounts!) Hope this is the info you needed--I think it is the right motor for the Murphy. I've watched a friend mess with a M14 radial in his Moose but his struggles with the cowl, oil leaks, air start, parts, mounts and extra fuel burn, etc. etc. convinced me a good old 290 HP Lycoming was what I felt most comfortable with.”
Michael Orth
Beaver Valley, British Columbia, Canada
mosurf(at)xplornet.com
(250) 243-0013
From: Les Kearney (kearney(at)shaw.ca)
Sent: Sunday, June 1, 2014 9:55 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
Hi
As some of may recall, I took the path less travelled and put a 3.6L Subie on my -10. Over the past year I have been quite happy with the performance that is to say until I had a piston problem. As I a) haven’t been able to determine the root cause of the problem and b) determine how to prevent it, I have decided to retrofit an IO540. Although there many 3.0L Subies flying on small RV’s, there are not many 3.6L engines which complicates matters.
I plan to get a Barret engine but still need to decide on a governor / propeller combination. Van’s Hartzell seems like a good choice especially from a cost perspective but I would be interested in knowing the other options. From what I have read, 2 blade props are best below 300HP but there also seems to be a number of 3 blade options as well.
Any info appreciated.
Cheers
Les
#40643
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1700
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:35 pm Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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Les, when I bought my prop and governor a year ago it was around $12K
with shipping for the two together from Jim Ayers. I was notified by MT
that something had happened to Jim, so both came direct from MT in Miami.
On 6/1/2014 11:32 AM, Les Kearney wrote:
| Quote: | Danny
What was the vist of the MT? I have heard that they are quite spendy.
Cheers
Les
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 1, 2014, at 12:14 PM, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com
<mailto:jdriggs49(at)msn.com>> wrote:
> I have a Barrett IO-540. What an engine!!!
> Couldn't be happier. If you use their cold air induction you will
> need the Show Planes cowl which works very well.
> I have a MT three blade prop and it seems to be almost as fast as the
> Hartzell blended two blade
> But it really out climbs it. Also a function of more horse power.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: rene(at)felker.com <mailto:rene(at)felker.com>
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 11:14:53 -0600
>
> Just for reference. I am very happy with my Hartzell IO-540 (260 HP)
> combination. I fly out of Utah, field elevation 4460 and have
> operated hot and heavy out of other higher altitude fields. Climb
> performance with that combination is more than adequate. Having not
> done any side by side comparison on 2 vs 3 blades I do not know the
> performance differences. I think there is some use full information
> in the archive on that type of testing.
>
> One thing to note, I would not like anything that made getting the
> lower cowling on and off more difficult.
>
> The three blade props do look sexy and fast……
>
> Rene' Felker
>
> N423CF
>
> 801-721-6080
>
> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Les Kearney
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 01, 2014 10:55 AM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
> *Subject:* Propeller / Governor Recommendations
>
> Hi
>
> As some of may recall, I took the path less travelled and put a 3.6L
> Subie on my -10. Over the past year I have been quite happy with the
> performance that is to say until I had a piston problem. As I a)
> haven’t been able to determine the root cause of the problem and b)
> determine how to prevent it, I have decided to retrofit an IO540.
> Although there many 3.0L Subies flying on small RV’s, there are not
> many 3.6L engines which complicates matters.
>
> I plan to get a Barret engine but still need to decide on a governor
> / propeller combination. Van’s Hartzell seems like a good choice
> especially from a cost perspective but I would be interested in
> knowing the other options. From what I have read, 2 blade props are
> best below 300HP but there also seems to be a number of 3 blade
> options as well.
>
> Any info appreciated.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> #40643
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
> **
> **
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> **
> * *
> *
>
> ist" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ank>http://forums.matronics.com
> rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
> *
>
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> //forums.matronics.com
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> *
*
*
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brunk
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 24
Location: Corpus Christi, texas
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:02 pm Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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I agree the 2 blade is best. I have had a MT and now fly w/ the vans 2blade. FOD caused so much damage to the MT I had to send it to Florida for O/h. Ins pd for 1blade. Had to replace all.very $$$. KISS. You'll be glad you did . Lost climb rate of 500fpm but gained 5gph . I fly out of Ruidoso.6800ft no problem with Vans prop. N661G kcrp. 750 and loving it. Robert Brunkenhoefer
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 1, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
The Van’s two blade Hartzell blended airfoil is, my opinion, the best performance value out there.
For governors, recommend looking at the PCU-5000. I’ve used them on two RVs and they have been flawless. I got both via group buys on Van’s Air Force at significant discounts.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2014 1:15 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
Just for reference. I am very happy with my Hartzell IO-540 (260 HP) combination. I fly out of Utah, field elevation 4460 and have operated hot and heavy out of other higher altitude fields. Climb performance with that combination is more than adequate. Having not done any side by side comparison on 2 vs 3 blades I do not know the performance differences. I think there is some use full information in the archive on that type of testing.
One thing to note, I would not like anything that made getting the lower cowling on and off more difficult.
The three blade props do look sexy and fast……
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2014 10:55 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
Hi
As some of may recall, I took the path less travelled and put a 3.6L Subie on my -10. Over the past year I have been quite happy with the performance that is to say until I had a piston problem. As I a) haven’t been able to determine the root cause of the problem and b) determine how to prevent it, I have decided to retrofit an IO540. Although there many 3.0L Subies flying on small RV’s, there are not many 3.6L engines which complicates matters.
I plan to get a Barret engine but still need to decide on a governor / propeller combination. Van’s Hartzell seems like a good choice especially from a cost perspective but I would be interested in knowing the other options. From what I have read, 2 blade props are best below 300HP but there also seems to be a number of 3 blade options as well.
Any info appreciated.
Cheers
Les
#40643 012345678901234567
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brunk
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 24
Location: Corpus Christi, texas
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:07 pm Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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I agree the 2 blade is best. I have had a MT and now fly w/ the vans 2blade. FOD caused so much damage to the MT I had to send it to Florida for O/h. Ins pd for 1blade. Had to replace all.very $$$. KISS. You'll be glad you did . Lost climb rate of 500fpm but gained 5gph . I fly out of Ruidoso.6800ft no problem with Vans prop. N661G kcrp. 750 and loving it. Robert Brunkenhoefer
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 1, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
The Van’s two blade Hartzell blended airfoil is, my opinion, the best performance value out there.
For governors, recommend looking at the PCU-5000. I’ve used them on two RVs and they have been flawless. I got both via group buys on Van’s Air Force at significant discounts.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2014 1:15 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
Just for reference. I am very happy with my Hartzell IO-540 (260 HP) combination. I fly out of Utah, field elevation 4460 and have operated hot and heavy out of other higher altitude fields. Climb performance with that combination is more than adequate. Having not done any side by side comparison on 2 vs 3 blades I do not know the performance differences. I think there is some use full information in the archive on that type of testing.
One thing to note, I would not like anything that made getting the lower cowling on and off more difficult.
The three blade props do look sexy and fast……
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2014 10:55 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
Hi
As some of may recall, I took the path less travelled and put a 3.6L Subie on my -10. Over the past year I have been quite happy with the performance that is to say until I had a piston problem. As I a) haven’t been able to determine the root cause of the problem and b) determine how to prevent it, I have decided to retrofit an IO540. Although there many 3.0L Subies flying on small RV’s, there are not many 3.6L engines which complicates matters.
I plan to get a Barret engine but still need to decide on a governor / propeller combination. Van’s Hartzell seems like a good choice especially from a cost perspective but I would be interested in knowing the other options. From what I have read, 2 blade props are best below 300HP but there also seems to be a number of 3 blade options as well.
Any info appreciated.
Cheers
Les
#40643 012345678901234567
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1700
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:07 pm Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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Please explain the 5gph gain????
No question a 3 blade will be more expensive to repair and overhaul.
I would expect vibration and noise to be somewhat less with the MT.
Agreed climb is very good either way.
The MT governor is less money than the PCU-500. Haven't heard any strong
reason to choose one over the other.
On 6/1/2014 2:00 PM, Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:
| Quote: | I agree the 2 blade is best. I have had a MT and now fly w/ the vans
2blade. FOD caused so much damage to the MT I had to send it to
Florida for O/h. Ins pd for 1blade. Had to replace all.very $$$. KISS.
You'll be glad you did . Lost climb rate of 500fpm but gained 5gph . I
fly out of Ruidoso.6800ft no problem with Vans prop. N661G kcrp. 750
and loving it. Robert Brunkenhoefer
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 1, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Carl Froehlich
<carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net <mailto:carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>> wrote:
> The Van’s two blade Hartzell blended airfoil is, my opinion, the best
> performance value out there.
|
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Kelly McMullen
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KCHD |
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brunk
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 24
Location: Corpus Christi, texas
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:18 pm Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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I meant 5-7kts faster . I continue to use the MT governor. It works great. Robert
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Jun 1, 2014, at 9:06 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:
Please explain the 5gph gain????
No question a 3 blade will be more expensive to repair and overhaul.
I would expect vibration and noise to be somewhat less with the MT.
Agreed climb is very good either way.
The MT governor is less money than the PCU-500. Haven't heard any strong reason to choose one over the other.
> On 6/1/2014 2:00 PM, Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:
> I agree the 2 blade is best. I have had a MT and now fly w/ the vans 2blade. FOD caused so much damage to the MT I had to send it to Florida for O/h. Ins pd for 1blade. Had to replace all.very $$$. KISS. You'll be glad you did . Lost climb rate of 500fpm but gained 5gph . I fly out of Ruidoso.6800ft no problem with Vans prop. N661G kcrp. 750 and loving it. Robert Brunkenhoefer
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 1, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net <mailto:carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>> wrote:
>>
>> The Van’s two blade Hartzell blended airfoil is, my opinion, the best performance value out there.
|
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:23 pm Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
|
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I assume he meant mph, not gph.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
352-427-0285
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Sent from my iPad
| Quote: | On Jun 1, 2014, at 10:06 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:
Please explain the 5gph gain????
No question a 3 blade will be more expensive to repair and overhaul.
I would expect vibration and noise to be somewhat less with the MT.
Agreed climb is very good either way.
The MT governor is less money than the PCU-500. Haven't heard any strong reason to choose one over the other.
> On 6/1/2014 2:00 PM, Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:
> I agree the 2 blade is best. I have had a MT and now fly w/ the vans 2blade. FOD caused so much damage to the MT I had to send it to Florida for O/h. Ins pd for 1blade. Had to replace all.very $$$. KISS. You'll be glad you did . Lost climb rate of 500fpm but gained 5gph . I fly out of Ruidoso.6800ft no problem with Vans prop. N661G kcrp. 750 and loving it. Robert Brunkenhoefer
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 1, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net <mailto:carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>> wrote:
>>
>> The Van’s two blade Hartzell blended airfoil is, my opinion, the best performance value out there.
|
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:11 pm Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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Figured it was grins/hr, which is approximately equal to knots 
Do not archive
On Sunday, June 1, 2014, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse Saint <[url=javascript:;]jesse(at)saintaviation.com[/url]>
I assume he meant mph, not gph.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
352-427-0285
[url=javascript:;]jesse(at)saintaviation.com[/url]
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 1, 2014, at 10:06 PM, Kelly McMullen <[url=javascript:;]kellym(at)aviating.com[/url]> wrote:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <[url=javascript:;]kellym(at)aviating.com[/url]>
>
> Please explain the 5gph gain????
> No question a 3 blade will be more expensive to repair and overhaul.
> I would expect vibration and noise to be somewhat less with the MT.
> Agreed climb is very good either way.
> The MT governor is less money than the PCU-500. Haven't heard any strong reason to choose one over the other.
>
>> On 6/1/2014 2:00 PM, Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:
>> I agree the 2 blade is best. I have had a MT and now fly w/ the vans 2blade. FOD caused so much damage to the MT I had to send it to Florida for O/h. Ins pd for 1blade. Had to replace all.very $$$. KISS. You'll be glad you did . Lost climb rate of 500fpm but gained 5gph . I fly out of Ruidoso.6800ft no problem with Vans prop. N661G kcrp. 750 and loving it. Robert Brunkenhoefer
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jun 1, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Carl Froehlich <[url=javascript:;]carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net[/url] <mailto:[url=javascript:;]carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net[/url]>> wrote:
>>>
>>> The Van’s two blade Hartzell blended airfoil is, my opinion, the best performance value out there.
>
>
>
>
>
===========
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
===========
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
e -
     -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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--Dave Saylor
[quote][b]
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:29 am Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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Now that we are on same page......
I vaguely recall a few early builders doing some prop comparisons, but don't know if they are in the archives. I know Van's did some comparing props for 2 seat models, but I don't think there is anything handy for the RV-10. Seems like Rob of AFS might have compared the MT and Hartzell, or maybe it was Hartzell 2 blade vs their 3 blade carbon fiber.
I certainly would be interested to see some data as to prop performance under controlled conditions, i.e. wide open throttle with same or identical engines and cowlings, perhaps power settings between two planes holding formation, etc.
Seems like our EFIS panels could collect the data while pilots just held position on each other. The usual figures I see on other makes with same question are 0 to 5 kts speed advantage for 2 vs 3 blade props depending on variety of 3 blade. Usually the aluminum variety give up more because they cannot optimize prop airfoil for strength/machining limitations, and the composite come closer to equaling the 2 blade on speed while doing much better on climb.
On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com (dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]Figured it was grins/hr, which is approximately equal to knots
Do not archive
On Sunday, June 1, 2014, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
I assume he meant mph, not gph.
|
[b]
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bobw
Joined: 31 Mar 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Marquette, MI
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:02 am Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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I’m not sure that I can offer a great deal here as it was on a Cessna 310. What I noticed was an improved climb and virtually no difference in speed. The real benefit was that they were infinitely quieter at full throttle or cruise. I do plan on using a 3 blade on the RV-10 that I want to build.
Bob Wilson
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 10:29 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
Now that we are on same page......
I vaguely recall a few early builders doing some prop comparisons, but don't know if they are in the archives. I know Van's did some comparing props for 2 seat models, but I don't think there is anything handy for the RV-10. Seems like Rob of AFS might have compared the MT and Hartzell, or maybe it was Hartzell 2 blade vs their 3 blade carbon fiber.
I certainly would be interested to see some data as to prop performance under controlled conditions, i.e. wide open throttle with same or identical engines and cowlings, perhaps power settings between two planes holding formation, etc.
Seems like our EFIS panels could collect the data while pilots just held position on each other. The usual figures I see on other makes with same question are 0 to 5 kts speed advantage for 2 vs 3 blade props depending on variety of 3 blade. Usually the aluminum variety give up more because they cannot optimize prop airfoil for strength/machining limitations, and the composite come closer to equaling the 2 blade on speed while doing much better on climb.
On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com (dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Figured it was grins/hr, which is approximately equal to knots
Do not archive
On Sunday, June 1, 2014, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)>
I assume he meant mph, not gph.
|
==============[/b][/quote] V10-List Email Forum -[/b][/quote] >[/b][/quote] :p>[/b][/quote] /o:p>[/b][/quote] tor?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List[/b][/quote] ==============[/b][/quote] nbsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -[/b][/quote] :p>[/b][/quote] tp://forums.matronics.com[/b][/quote] ==============[/b][/quote] bsp; - List Contribution Web Site -[/b][/quote] e> bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.[/b][/quote] bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution[/b][/quote] ==============[/b] [b]
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partner14
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:56 am Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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OK, here's my 2 cents.
When people are comparing the props and give numbers on speed differences, that is wide open throttle and rpm.
I've raced my 3 blade MT against 8 RV10's, 7 with 2 blade hartzell's, one with a 3 blade, but not MT, and beat them all. Ok, so I have more ponies.... but it's smoother, climbs at least as well, and who flies flat out all the time anyway. I'm able to cruise at roughly the same speed, but am able to run lower MP (18-19) and RPM settings (2,000 to 2,200), and have found no other 10 that gets as good of fuel mileage as I get. (9.5 to 10.3)
Latest test was on a long trip in the 10 with a brand new RV8 with a new IO-390.... at 10,500', I heard those wonderful words from the 8 "you're pulling me".
Just remember if it seems smoother to you, it's easier on everything, the engine, the airframe, the avionics, etc.
Don McDonald
From: Robert Brunkenhoefer <robertbrunk(at)mac.com> To: "rv10-list(at)matronics.com" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, June 1, 2014 9:17 PM Subject: Re: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
--> RV10-List message posted by: Robert Brunkenhoefer <robertbrunk(at)mac.com (robertbrunk(at)mac.com)>I meant 5-7kts faster . I continue to use the MT governor. It works great. RobertSent from my iPhone> On Jun 1, 2014, at 9:06 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:> > --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>> > Please explain the 5gph gain????> No question a 3 blade will be more expensive to repair and overhaul.> I would expect vibration and noise to be somewhat less with the MT.> Agreed climb is very good either way.> The MT governor is less money than the PCU-500. Haven't heard any strong reason to choose one over the other.> >> On 6/1/2014 2:00 PM, Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:>> I agree the 2 blade is best. I have had a MT and now fly w/ the vans 2blade. FOD caused so much damage to the MT I had to send it to Florida for O/h. Ins pd for 1blade. Had to replace all.very $$$. KISS. You'll be glad you did . Lost climb rate of 500fpm but gained 5gph . I fly out of Ruidoso.6800ft no problem with Vans prop. N661G kcrp. 750 and loving it. Robert Brunkenhoefer>> >> Sent from my iPhone>> >>> On Jun 1, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net) <mailto:carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)>> wrote:>>> >>> The Van’s two blade Hartzell blended airfoil is, my opinion, the best performance value out there.> > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matr========
[quote][b]
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brunk
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 24
Location: Corpus Christi, texas
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:49 am Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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I went to the Northwest Territories with my MT prop and could not go to kuglutuk north of the arctic circle because the gravel runways might damage the prop and there was no way to file them and fly out of there. They have that limitation. IMHO
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 2, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com (building_partner(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | OK, here's my 2 cents.
When people are comparing the props and give numbers on speed differences, that is wide open throttle and rpm.
I've raced my 3 blade MT against 8 RV10's, 7 with 2 blade hartzell's, one with a 3 blade, but not MT, and beat them all. Ok, so I have more ponies.... but it's smoother, climbs at least as well, and who flies flat out all the time anyway. I'm able to cruise at roughly the same speed, but am able to run lower MP (18-19) and RPM settings (2,000 to 2,200), and have found no other 10 that gets as good of fuel mileage as I get. (9.5 to 10.3)
Latest test was on a long trip in the 10 with a brand new RV8 with a new IO-390.... at 10,500', I heard those wonderful words from the 8 "you're pulling me".
Just remember if it seems smoother to you, it's easier on everything, the engine, the airframe, the avionics, etc.
Don McDonald
From: Robert Brunkenhoefer <robertbrunk(at)mac.com (robertbrunk(at)mac.com)> To: "rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Sunday, June 1, 2014 9:17 PM Subject: Re: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
--> RV10-List message posted by: Robert Brunkenhoefer <robertbrunk(at)mac.com (robertbrunk(at)mac.com)>I meant 5-7kts faster . I continue to use the MT governor. It works great. RobertSent from my iPhone> On Jun 1, 2014, at 9:06 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:> > --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>> > Please explain the 5gph gain????> No question a 3 blade will be more expensive to repair and overhaul.> I would expect vibration and noise to be somewhat less with the MT.> Agreed climb is very good either way.> The MT governor is less money than the PCU-500. Haven't heard any strong reason to choose one over the other.> >> On 6/1/2014 2:00 PM, Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:>> I agree the 2 blade is best. I have had a MT and now fly w/ the vans 2blade. FOD caused so much damage to the MT I had to send it to Florida for O/h. Ins pd for 1blade. Had to replace all.very $$$. KISS. You'll be glad you did . Lost climb rate of 500fpm but gained 5gph . I fly out of Ruidoso.6800ft no problem with Vans prop. N661G kcrp. 750 and loving it. Robert Brunkenhoefer>> >> Sent from my iPhone>> >>> On Jun 1, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net) <mailto:carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)>> wrote:>>> >>> The Van’s two blade Hartzell blended airfoil is, my opinion, the best performance value out there.> > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matr========
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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So as I see it the answer is.....
All these props are close enough to each other that only a direct A-B test (change props on the same airplane) can tell the difference. So far as I see only Robert has actually done that, and he seems to confirm the folklore:
2 blade: least expensive, fastest cruise.
3 blade: best climb performance, quieter and smoother.
Fro the record, I have the 2 blade Hartzell and Hartzell governor straight from Vans, and am happy with both.
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Bob Turner
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rleffler
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:49 am Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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I too have both Hartzell prop and gov from Vans. No complaints from me, but I only have about sixty hours at the moment.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 2, 2014, at 2:17 PM, "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
Fro the record, I have the 2 blade Hartzell and Hartzell governor straight from Vans, and am happy with both.
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Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424219#424219
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Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
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