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RTV and Aircraft Engines

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ngeorge(at)continentalmot
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:50 am Post subject: RTV and Aircraft Engines

For those of you advocating the use of RTV in aircraft engines, or for those who might be tempted to use it, I offer  the attached photos. 

  

One photo is of a hydraulic valve lifter, packed with RTV.  RTV gets soft in the presence of motor oil and gasoline.   Heat accelerates the deterioration.   Youâ€™d be surprised where it ends upâ€¦ 

  

The other photo is the result of loss of torque on critical fasteners.  RTV was used instead of the indicated (required) sealant.  In operation, under the stresses of the power stroke, RTV in critical joints allows things to move that shouldnâ€™t â€“ like crankcase halves.  Movement results in fretting.  As the main bearing saddles fret, the through-bolts lose their clamping force and the bearings begin to move.  In this instance, the main bearings walked fore and aft, stopped by the adjacent crank-pin cheeks.  When the bearing touched the cheek, it left a mark â€“ a stress riser.  The result is inevitable. 

  

  

[img]cid:image003.png(at)01CF7E69.5908AB80[/img] 

  

[img]cid:image005.jpg(at)01CF7E69.5908AB80[/img] 

  

  

    

From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing

 Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 5:58 AM

 To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Induction leaks where and how did you find them 

 

 

   

Perhaps it should be....it works!

 

 Dale Ensing 

  



 On May 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero (ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero)> wrote: 

  	  Quote: 	
		     

Gentlemen -  

  

  

  

You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand of engine.  

  

  

  

The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles. 

 

 Neal George 

  

Continental Motors 

  

Technical Support / Customer Service  

Sent from my iPhone 

 

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		     

 <![if !supportLists]>1.   <![endif]>Replace the Intake Gasket.  

 <![if !supportLists]>2.   <![endif]>AND seal it with High Temp RTV. 

 

     	
 

   _-=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-=3D          - The LycomingEngines-List Email Forum -_-=3D Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse_-=3D the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,_-=3D Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,  	
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recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:05 am Post subject: RTV and Aircraft Engines

Thanks for the 'result' photo's



--

ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:11 pm Post subject: RTV and Aircraft Engines

Interesting and valuable post on the Matronics lists.

I'm good for Wednesday, morning or afternoon. It appears Wednesday will be hot, but the hottest days are Thursday and Friday.

  



RF

On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero (ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero)> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		            

For those of you advocating the use of RTV in aircraft engines, or for those who might be tempted to use it, I offer  the attached photos. 

Â  

One photo is of a hydraulic valve lifter, packed with RTV.Â  RTV gets soft in the presence of motor oil and gasoline.  Â Heat accelerates the deterioration.Â   Youâ€™d be surprised where it ends upâ€¦ 

Â  

The other photo is the result of loss of torque on critical fasteners.Â  RTV was used instead of the indicated (required) sealant.Â  In operation, under the stresses of the power stroke, RTV in critical joints allows things to move that shouldnâ€™t â€“ like crankcase halves.Â  Movement results in fretting.Â  As the main bearing saddles fret, the through-bolts lose their clamping force and the bearings begin to move.Â  In this instance, the main bearings walked fore and aft, stopped by the adjacent crank-pin cheeks.Â  When the bearing touched the cheek, it left a mark â€“ a stress riser.Â  The result is inevitable. 

Â  

Â  

[img]cid:image003.png(at)01CF7E69.5908AB80[/img]   

Â  

[img]cid:image005.jpg(at)01CF7E69.5908AB80[/img]   

Â  

Â  

Â    

From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)  [mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing

 Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 5:58 AM

 To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com (lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them 

 

 

Â   

Perhaps it should be....it works!

 

 Dale Ensing 

  



 On May 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero (ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero)> wrote: 

  	  Quote: 	
		     

Gentlemen -Â  

  

Â  

  

You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand of engine.Â  

  

Â  

  

The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles.Â 

 

 Neal George 

  

Continental Motors 

  

Technical Support / Customer Service  

Sent from my iPhone 

 

  

Â  

  	  Quote: 	
		     

 1.Â Â  Replace the Intake Gasket.  

 2.Â Â  AND seal it with High Temp RTV. 

 

 Â Â Â  	
 

 Â Â  	
 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D[/b] 	
   Â  - The LycomingEngines-List Email Forum -[/b][/quote] >[/u][/b][/quote] [/b][/quote] Q,[/b][/quote] /b>[/quote] cs.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List[/b][/quote] D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D[/b][/quote]   Â Â Â Â Â Â  - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -[/b][/quote] [/b][/quote] onics.com[/b][/quote] D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D[/b][/quote]   Â Â Â Â  - List Contribution Web Site -[/b][/quote] t![/b][/quote] Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.[/b][/quote] cs.com/contribution[/b][/quote] D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D[/b]Â [/quote] 

 

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Dale Ensing

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 571
Location: Aero Plantation Weddington NC

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:10 pm Post subject: RTV and Aircraft Engines

Mr. George, 

Your point is well taken. But, You are generalizing the term RTV. RTV is not a product. It is a description of a product that is Room Temperature Vulcanized. The chemistry of RTV products is wide and varied with performance accordingly. Not all RTVs are created equal! There are RTVs that do not "get soft in the presence of motor oil and gasoline"



Dale Ensing



On Jun 2, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero (ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero)> wrote:



[quote]      v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} <![endif]-->    <![endif]-->  Clean false    false false false  EN-US X-NONE X-NONE                    <![endif]-->                                                                                                                                            <![endif]-->/* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable 	{mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; 	mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; 	mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; 	mso-style-noshow:yes; 	mso-style-priority:99; 	mso-style-parent:""; 	mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; 	mso-para-margin:0in; 	mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; 	mso-pagination:widow-orphan; 	font-size:10.0pt; 	font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} <![endif]-->  <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->    

For those of you advocating the use of RTV in aircraft engines, or for those who might be tempted to use it, I offer  the attached photos. 

  

One photo is of a hydraulic valve lifter, packed with RTV.  RTV gets soft in the presence of motor oil and gasoline.   Heat accelerates the deterioration.   Youâ€™d be surprised where it ends upâ€¦ 

  

The other photo is the result of loss of torque on critical fasteners.  RTV was used instead of the indicated (required) sealant.  In operation, under the stresses of the power stroke, RTV in critical joints allows things to move that shouldnâ€™t â€“ like crankcase halves.  Movement results in fretting.  As the main bearing saddles fret, the through-bolts lose their clamping force and the bearings begin to move.  In this instance, the main bearings walked fore and aft, stopped by the adjacent crank-pin cheeks.  When the bearing touched the cheek, it left a mark â€“ a stress riser.  The result is inevitable. 

  

  

<image003.png> 

  

<image005.jpg> 

  

  

    

From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)  [mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing

 Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 5:58 AM

 To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com (lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them 

 

 

   

Perhaps it should be....it works!

 

 Dale Ensing 

  



 On May 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero (ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero)> wrote: 

  	  Quote: 	
		     

Gentlemen -  

  

  

  

You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand of engine.  

  

  

  

The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles. 

 

 Neal George 

  

Continental Motors 

  

Technical Support / Customer Service  

Sent from my iPhone 

 

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		     

 1.   Replace the Intake Gasket.  

 2.   AND seal it with High Temp RTV. 

 

    	
 

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_________________
Dale Ensing
RV-6A
Aero Plantation
Weddington NC

BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:10 pm Post subject: RTV and Aircraft Engines

Neal:

  No One - Is advocating using RTV inside the engine.  The IDIOT that did that should never blow his nose...  He will blow his brains out!

  Yet!  Lycoming does use an RTV to seal the case halves. So, making a 'general' - "Don't do it!" statement is not the way to go.  There were very particulars on What to use and How to use it.  

 



NOTE:  All RTV are not the same. And when you consider that Lycomning use to use a Silk Thread and Varnish to seal the case halves - Damn!  RTV is one hell of an improvement.

 So, I guess RTV is 'recommended'!

 



Barry

"Chop'd Liver"

 



On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero (ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero)> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		            

For those of you advocating the use of RTV in aircraft engines, or for those who might be tempted to use it, I offer  the attached photos. 

  

One photo is of a hydraulic valve lifter, packed with RTV.  RTV gets soft in the presence of motor oil and gasoline.   Heat accelerates the deterioration.   You&rsquo;d be surprised where it ends up&hellip; 

  

The other photo is the result of loss of torque on critical fasteners.  RTV was used instead of the indicated (required) sealant.  In operation, under the stresses of the power stroke, RTV in critical joints allows things to move that shouldn&rsquo;t &ndash; like crankcase halves.  Movement results in fretting.  As the main bearing saddles fret, the through-bolts lose their clamping force and the bearings begin to move.  In this instance, the main bearings walked fore and aft, stopped by the adjacent crank-pin cheeks.  When the bearing touched the cheek, it left a mark &ndash; a stress riser.  The result is inevitable. 

  

  

[img]cid:image003.png(at)01CF7E69.5908AB80[/img]   

  

[img]cid:image005.jpg(at)01CF7E69.5908AB80[/img]   

  

  

    

From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)  [mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing

 Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 5:58 AM

 To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com (lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them 

 

 

   

Perhaps it should be....it works!

 

 Dale Ensing 

  



 On May 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero (ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero)> wrote: 

  	  Quote: 	
		     

Gentlemen -  

  

  

  

You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand of engine.  

  

  

  

The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles. 

 

 Neal George 

  

Continental Motors 

  

Technical Support / Customer Service  

Sent from my iPhone 

 

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		     

 1.   Replace the Intake Gasket.  

 2.   AND seal it with High Temp RTV. 

 

    	
 

   	
 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D[/b] 	
     - The LycomingEngines-List Email Forum -[/b][/quote] >[/u][/b][/quote] [/b][/quote] Q,[/b][/quote] /b>[/quote] cs.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List[/b][/quote] D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D[/b][/quote]          - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -[/b][/quote] [/b][/quote] onics.com[/b][/quote] D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D[/b][/quote]        - List Contribution Web Site -[/b][/quote] t![/b][/quote]                       -Matt Dralle, List Admin.[/b][/quote] cs.com/contribution[/b][/quote] D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D[/b] [/quote] 

 

  [/quote]

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dalamphere(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:39 pm Post subject: RTV and Aircraft Engines

When I rebuilt my Lycoming 320, I used silk thread and a glue (spec'd by Lycoming) that reminded me of Pliobond - didn't seem to be varnish. Anyway, no leakage yet (at)360 hrs.



Dave L.



On Jun 2, 2014, at 8:08 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Neal:

 No One - Is advocating using RTV inside the engine.  The IDIOT that did that should never blow his nose...  He will blow his brains out!

 Yet!  Lycoming does use an RTV to seal the case halves. So, making a 'general' - "Don't do it!" statement is not the way to go.  There were very particulars on What to use and How to use it.  

 



NOTE:  All RTV are not the same. And when you consider that Lycomning use to use a Silk Thread and Varnish to seal the case halves - Damn!  RTV is one hell of an improvement.

 So, I guess RTV is 'recommended'!

 



Barry

"Chop'd Liver"

 



On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero (ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		    

For those of you advocating the use of RTV in aircraft engines, or for those who might be tempted to use it, I offer the attached photos.

 

One photo is of a hydraulic valve lifter, packed with RTV.  RTV gets soft in the presence of motor oil and gasoline.   Heat accelerates the deterioration.   You’d be surprised where it ends up…

 

The other photo is the result of loss of torque on critical fasteners.  RTV was used instead of the indicated (required) sealant.  In operation, under the stresses of the power stroke, RTV in critical joints allows things to move that shouldn’t – like crankcase halves.  Movement results in fretting.  As the main bearing saddles fret, the through-bolts lose their clamping force and the bearings begin to move.  In this instance, the main bearings walked fore and aft, stopped by the adjacent crank-pin cheeks.  When the bearing touched the cheek, it left a mark – a stress riser.  The result is inevitable.

 

 

<image003.png>

 

<image005.jpg>

 

 

   

From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing

 Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 5:58 AM

 To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com (lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them 

 



  

Perhaps it should be....it works!

 

 Dale Ensing 

 



 On May 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero (ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero)> wrote: 

  	  Quote: 	
		    

Gentlemen -  

 

  

 

You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand of engine.  

 

  

 

The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles. 

 

 Neal George 

 

Continental Motors 

 

Technical Support / Customer Service 

Sent from my iPhone 

 

 

  

  	  Quote: 	
		    

 1.   Replace the Intake Gasket. 

 2.   AND seal it with High Temp RTV. 

 

    	
 

   	
 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D   - The LycomingEngines-List Email Forum - >  Q, /b> cs.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D        - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -  onics.com D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D      - List Contribution Web Site - t!                       -Matt Dralle, List Admin. cs.com/contribution D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D  	  Quote: 	
		   	
 

 

 	




	


 [quote][b]

ngeorge(at)continentalmot
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:58 pm Post subject: RTV and Aircraft Engines

OK,  

  

The Overhaul Manual for both Lycoming and Continental engines call out specific products and procedures for sealing the  various joints.   

  

Y’all do what you want, but I’m really tired of reading about friends in the news. 

  

A complete discussion of this subject is rather detailed and lengthy, and does not lend itself to email-type back & forth.  Anyone who would like to continue the discussion is welcome to call me on the CMI Tech line or drop by the booth at OSH and we’ll hash it out. 

  

neal 

  

  

From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE

 Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 7:09 PM

 To: LYCOMING ENGINES

 Subject: Re: RTV and Aircraft Engines 

    

Neal: 

  

  

  

No One - Is advocating using RTV inside the engine.  The IDIOT that did that should never blow his nose...  He will blow his brains out! 

  

  

  

Yet!  Lycoming does use an RTV to seal the case halves. So, making a 'general' - "Don't do it!" statement is not the way to go.  There were very particulars on What to use and How to use it.   

  

  

  

NOTE:  All RTV are not the same. And when you consider that Lycomning use to use a Silk Thread and Varnish to seal the case halves - Damn!  RTV is one hell of an improvement. 

  

So, I guess RTV is 'recommended'! 

  

  

  

  

  

Barry 

  

"Chop'd Liver" 

  

   

On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero (ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero)> wrote:   

For those of you advocating the use of RTV in aircraft engines, or for those who might be tempted  to use it, I offer the attached photos. 

  

One photo is of a hydraulic valve lifter, packed with RTV.  RTV gets soft in the presence of motor  oil and gasoline.  Heat accelerates the deterioration.  You’d be surprised where it ends up… 

  

The other photo is the result of loss of torque on critical fasteners.  RTV was used instead of the  indicated (required) sealant.  In operation, under the stresses of the power stroke, RTV in critical joints allows things to move that shouldn’t – like crankcase halves.  Movement results in fretting.  As the main bearing saddles fret, the through-bolts lose  their clamping force and the bearings begin to move.  In this instance, the main bearings walked fore and aft, stopped by the adjacent crank-pin cheeks.  When the bearing touched the cheek, it left a mark – a stress riser.  The result is inevitable. 

  

  

[img]cid:image001.png(at)01CF7EAA.F355CBA0[/img] 

  

[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01CF7EAA.F355CBA0[/img] 

  

  

    

 From:  owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing

 Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 5:58 AM

 To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com (lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them 

 

 

   

Perhaps it should be....it works!

 

 Dale Ensing 

  



 On May 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero (ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero)> wrote: 

  	  Quote: 	
		     

Gentlemen -  

  

  

  

You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand of engine.  

  

  

  

The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles. 

 

 Neal George 

  

Continental Motors 

  

Technical Support / Customer Service  

Sent from my iPhone 

 

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		     

 1.   Replace the Intake Gasket.   

 2.   AND seal it with High Temp RTV. 

 

    	
 

   	
 

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 

  - The LycomingEngines-List Email Forum - 

 	  Quote: 	
		    

Q, 
	


/b> 

cs.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List 

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 

       - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - 

onics.com 

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 

     - List Contribution Web Site - 

t! 

                      -Matt Dralle, List Admin. 

cs.com/contribution 

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D  	  Quote:

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rv10pro(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:17 pm Post subject: RTV and Aircraft Engines

Thank you for this post. On Jun 2, 2014 8:07 PM, "Neal George" <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero (ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		             

OK,  

Â  

The Overhaul Manual for both Lycoming and Continental engines call out specific products and procedures for sealing the  various joints. Â  

Â  

Yâ€™all do what you want, but Iâ€™m really tired of reading about friends in the news.  

Â  

A complete discussion of this subject is rather detailed and lengthy, and does not lend itself to email-type back & forth.Â  Anyone who would like to continue the discussion is welcome to call me on the CMI Tech line or drop by the booth at OSH and weâ€™ll hash it out. 

Â  

neal 

Â  

Â  

From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)  [mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE

 Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 7:09 PM

 To: LYCOMING ENGINES

 Subject: Re: RTV and Aircraft Engines 

Â    

Neal: 

  

Â  

  

No One - Is advocating using RTV inside the engine. Â The IDIOT that did that should never blow his nose... Â He will blow his brains out!  

  

Â  

  

Yet! Â Lycoming does use an RTV to seal the case halves. So, making a 'general' - "Don't do it!" statement is not the way to go. Â There were very particulars on What to use and How to use it. Â   

  

Â  

  

NOTE: Â All RTV are not the same. And when you consider that Lycomning use to use a Silk Thread and Varnish to seal the case halves - Damn! Â RTV is one hell of an improvement.  

  

So, I guess RTV is 'recommended'! 

  

Â  

  

Â  

  

Barry 

  

"Chop'd Liver" 

  

Â   

On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero (ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero)> wrote:   

For those of you advocating the use of RTV in aircraft engines, or for those who might be tempted  to use it, I offer the attached photos. 

Â  

One photo is of a hydraulic valve lifter, packed with RTV.Â  RTV gets soft in the presence of motor  oil and gasoline. Â Heat accelerates the deterioration.Â  Youâ€™d be surprised where it ends upâ€¦ 

Â  

The other photo is the result of loss of torque on critical fasteners.Â  RTV was used instead of the  indicated (required) sealant.Â  In operation, under the stresses of the power stroke, RTV in critical joints allows things to move that shouldnâ€™t â€“ like crankcase halves.Â  Movement results in fretting.Â  As the main bearing saddles fret, the through-bolts lose  their clamping force and the bearings begin to move.Â  In this instance, the main bearings walked fore and aft, stopped by the adjacent crank-pin cheeks.Â  When the bearing touched the cheek, it left a mark â€“ a stress riser.Â  The result is inevitable.  

Â  

Â  

[img]cid:image001.png(at)01CF7EAA.F355CBA0[/img] 

Â  

[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01CF7EAA.F355CBA0[/img]  

Â  

Â  

Â    

 From:  owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing

 Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 5:58 AM

 To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com (lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them 

 

 

Â   

Perhaps it should be....it works!

 

 Dale Ensing 

  



 On May 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero (ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero)> wrote: 

  	  Quote: 	
		     

Gentlemen -Â  

  

Â  

  

You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand of engine.Â  

  

Â  

  

The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles.Â 

 

 Neal George 

  

Continental Motors 

  

Technical Support / Customer Service  

Sent from my iPhone 

 

  

Â  

  	  Quote: 	
		     

 1.Â Â  Replace the Intake Gasket.   

 2.Â Â  AND seal it with High Temp RTV. 

 

 Â Â Â  	
 

 Â Â  	
 

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 

Â  - The LycomingEngines-List Email Forum - 

 	  Quote: 	
		  Â  

Q, 
	


/b> 

cs.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List 

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 

Â Â Â Â Â Â  - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - 

onics.com 

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 

Â Â Â Â  - List Contribution Web Site - 

t! 

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin. 

cs.com/contribution 

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D  	  Quote: 	
		  Â  	
 

 

 

 

Â

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BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:14 pm Post subject: RTV and Aircraft Engines

Yes, OK!

 Stop the dramatics and stick with the facts.  An engine is not going to stop running and a plane is not going to fall out of the air because you use RTV...  In the areas we are talking about.  And in the Lycoming manual, as previously stated there is an RTV for sealing the case halves. And as I previously stated you BETTER quote only from the approved Continental Manual...  After all, you should not jeopardize your job or put the company in question.  NOTHING wrong with sticking to the policies.  But, if Continental or Lycoming were the ONLY sources of information and the ONLY way of doing something there would not be any reason for the EAA or advancements in aviation.  Just consider little things in recent years like Electronic Ignitions, Roller Cams, the cange in valves and valve guides, or how about things like Flight Directors for aircraft UNDER $3000!  We all know, or should understand Lycoming & Continental make their decisions by what the Lawyers say...  Not by what Engineers say.

 



You cannot get into trouble by doing what the Manual says.

 Unless you are the prosecuting attorney.

Barry

 "Chop'd Liver"

No-sense in having a public discussion if it only takes place over a phone.  

 





On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 10:57 PM, Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero (ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		            

OK,  

  

The Overhaul Manual for both Lycoming and Continental engines call out specific products and procedures for sealing the  various joints.   

  

Y&rsquo;all do what you want, but I&rsquo;m really tired of reading about friends in the news.  

  

A complete discussion of this subject is rather detailed and lengthy, and does not lend itself to email-type back & forth.  Anyone who would like to continue the discussion is welcome to call me on the CMI Tech line or drop by the booth at OSH and we&rsquo;ll hash it out. 

  

neal 

  

  

From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)  [mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE

 Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 7:09 PM

 To: LYCOMING ENGINES

 Subject: Re: RTV and Aircraft Engines 

    

Neal: 

  

  

  

No One - Is advocating using RTV inside the engine.  The IDIOT that did that should never blow his nose...  He will blow his brains out!  

  

  

  

Yet!  Lycoming does use an RTV to seal the case halves. So, making a 'general' - "Don't do it!" statement is not the way to go.  There were very particulars on What to use and How to use it.    

  

  

  

NOTE:  All RTV are not the same. And when you consider that Lycomning use to use a Silk Thread and Varnish to seal the case halves - Damn!  RTV is one hell of an improvement.  

  

So, I guess RTV is 'recommended'! 

  

  

  

  

  

Barry 

  

"Chop'd Liver" 

 

 

   

On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero (ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero)> wrote: 

  

For those of you advocating the use of RTV in aircraft engines, or for those who might be tempted  to use it, I offer the attached photos. 

  

One photo is of a hydraulic valve lifter, packed with RTV.  RTV gets soft in the presence of motor  oil and gasoline.  Heat accelerates the deterioration.  You&rsquo;d be surprised where it ends up&hellip; 

  

The other photo is the result of loss of torque on critical fasteners.  RTV was used instead of the  indicated (required) sealant.  In operation, under the stresses of the power stroke, RTV in critical joints allows things to move that shouldn&rsquo;t &ndash; like crankcase halves.  Movement results in fretting.  As the main bearing saddles fret, the through-bolts lose  their clamping force and the bearings begin to move.  In this instance, the main bearings walked fore and aft, stopped by the adjacent crank-pin cheeks.  When the bearing touched the cheek, it left a mark &ndash; a stress riser.  The result is inevitable.  

  

  



[img]cid:image001.png(at)01CF7EAA.F355CBA0[/img] 

  

[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01CF7EAA.F355CBA0[/img]  

  

  

    

 From:  owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing

 Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 5:58 AM

 To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com (lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them 

 

 

   

Perhaps it should be....it works!

 

 Dale Ensing 

  



 On May 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero (ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero)> wrote: 

  	  Quote: 	
		     

Gentlemen -  

  

  

  

You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand of engine.  

  

  

  

The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles. 

 

 Neal George 

  

Continental Motors 

  

Technical Support / Customer Service  

Sent from my iPhone 

 

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		     

 1.   Replace the Intake Gasket.   

 2.   AND seal it with High Temp RTV. 

 

    	
 

   	
 

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 

  - The LycomingEngines-List Email Forum - 

 	  Quote: 	
		    

Q, 
	


/b> 

cs.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List 

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 

       - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - 

onics.com 

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 

     - List Contribution Web Site - 

t! 

                      -Matt Dralle, List Admin. 

cs.com/contribution 

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D  	  Quote:

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stuart(at)stuarthutchison
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:08 pm Post subject: RTV and Aircraft Engines

Thanks Neal.

I rebuilt my Lycoming IO-540 under supervision and learned quite a few logical, but tried and true lessons from the workshop engineers at the time. Your thoughts are much appreciated.

Certain RTVs may be acceptable according to Lycoming, but there's none in my engine and I'm personally glad about that !



Kind regards, Stu



Sent from my iPhone

On 03/06/2014, at 12:57, Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero (ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero)> wrote:

[quote]     v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} <![endif]-->    <![endif]-->  Clean     false false false  EN-US X-NONE X-NONE                    <![endif]-->                                                                                                                                            <![endif]-->/* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable 	{mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; 	mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; 	mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; 	mso-style-noshow:yes; 	mso-style-priority:99; 	mso-style-parent:""; 	mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; 	mso-para-margin:0in; 	mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; 	mso-pagination:widow-orphan; 	font-size:11.0pt; 	font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; 	mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; 	mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; 	mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";} <![endif]-->  <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->    

OK,  

  

The Overhaul Manual for both Lycoming and Continental engines call out specific products and procedures for sealing the  various joints.   

  

Yâ€™all do what you want, but Iâ€™m really tired of reading about friends in the news. 

  

A complete discussion of this subject is rather detailed and lengthy, and does not lend itself to email-type back & forth.  Anyone who would like to continue the discussion is welcome to call me on the CMI Tech line or drop by the booth at OSH and weâ€™ll hash it out. 

  

neal 

  

  

From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)  [mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE

 Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 7:09 PM

 To: LYCOMING ENGINES

 Subject: Re: RTV and Aircraft Engines 

    

Neal: 

  

  

  

No One - Is advocating using RTV inside the engine.  The IDIOT that did that should never blow his nose...  He will blow his brains out! 

  

  

  

Yet!  Lycoming does use an RTV to seal the case halves. So, making a 'general' - "Don't do it!" statement is not the way to go.  There were very particulars on What to use and How to use it.   

  

  

  

NOTE:  All RTV are not the same. And when you consider that Lycomning use to use a Silk Thread and Varnish to seal the case halves - Damn!  RTV is one hell of an improvement. 

  

So, I guess RTV is 'recommended'! 

  

  

  

  

  

Barry 

  

"Chop'd Liver" 

  

   

On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero (ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero)> wrote:   

For those of you advocating the use of RTV in aircraft engines, or for those who might be tempted  to use it, I offer the attached photos. 

  

One photo is of a hydraulic valve lifter, packed with RTV.  RTV gets soft in the presence of motor  oil and gasoline.  Heat accelerates the deterioration.  Youâ€™d be surprised where it ends upâ€¦ 

  

The other photo is the result of loss of torque on critical fasteners.  RTV was used instead of the  indicated (required) sealant.  In operation, under the stresses of the power stroke, RTV in critical joints allows things to move that shouldnâ€™t â€“ like crankcase halves.  Movement results in fretting.  As the main bearing saddles fret, the through-bolts lose  their clamping force and the bearings begin to move.  In this instance, the main bearings walked fore and aft, stopped by the adjacent crank-pin cheeks.  When the bearing touched the cheek, it left a mark â€“ a stress riser.  The result is inevitable. 

  

  

<image001.png> 

  

<image002.jpg> 

  

  

    

 From:  owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing

 Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 5:58 AM

 To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com (lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them 

 

 

   

Perhaps it should be....it works!

 

 Dale Ensing 

  



 On May 29, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero (ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero)> wrote: 

  	  Quote: 	
		     

Gentlemen -  

  

  

  

You will not find RTV listed among the approved sealants for either brand of engine.  

  

  

  

The only place it is acceptable is sealing gaps in baffles. 

 

 Neal George 

  

Continental Motors 

  

Technical Support / Customer Service  

Sent from my iPhone 

 

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		     

 1.   Replace the Intake Gasket.   

 2.   AND seal it with High Temp RTV. 

 

    	
 

   	
 

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