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MK 111 rebuild
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pipercolt

Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 46
Location: Randolph New York

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: MK 111 rebuild

Hi All

I just looked in my airframe logbook and it says that if it is flown solo, the pilot must weigh at least 195 lbs. That is with the pizza cutter tail wheel. I am removing that one and installing one that weighs about twice as much. I have not run the numbers yet but I am guessing that the pilot will have to be well over 200 lbs to stay within limits. As far as the battery goes, on my snowmobile forum there is a lot of talk of light weight batteries that work well if it isn't real cold out.

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:35 am Post subject: Re: MK 111 rebuild

I got one of those batteries, and it is awesome! Shorai Lithium Iron battery, 14 Amp Hour, 210 CCA, and weighs 1.5 pounds. 

That's right, 1.5 pounds. With that little weight, you won't have to do a great deal of reinforcing if you move it to the nose.

http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/pg9.htm



However, I did add a master cut off switch that isolates the battery from everything, like the dragsters use, and turn it off and on every time I do anything with the airplane, because if you ever totally discharge one of those batteries, it is toast. About $150 worth of toast.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:42 am Post subject: MK 111 rebuild

You'll have more weight in cable than battery if it is relocated to the

nose.



I think the numbers on a Kolb W&B weigh more than the actual "aft CG"

problem.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama



--

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:22 am Post subject: MK 111 rebuild

John



I figure my battery cables are two-three feet longer attaching to my nose cone mounted battery than they would be if they were attached to the battery behind the seat. What size cables do you use. Figuring three feet of cable weighing more than a 12-14 lb battery, those must be mighty big cables.

I also switched to a Lithium Iron battery (another brand also less than 2 lb) last summer. The cables are still less than half the weight of that battery. The two lb. battery and app one pound of cables still helps my weight and balance.

Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIC

On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 10:41 AM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

 

 You'll have more weight in cable than battery if it is relocated to the

 nose.

 

 I think the numbers on a Kolb W&B weigh more than the actual "aft CG"

 problem.

 

 john h

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

 

 --

pipercolt

Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 46
Location: Randolph New York

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: MK 111 rebuild

Hi Neil

What size battery cable did you use? Yes Richard, that is the battery I was thinking of. Isn't it funny how many years ago when I was flying corporate we used NiCad batteries and every so often we totally discharged them and then recharged them. How theories have changed.

Bob

pipercolt

Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 46
Location: Randolph New York

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: MK 111 rebuild

Hi Neil

What size battery cable did you use? Yes Richard, that is the battery I was thinking of. Isn't it funny how many years ago when I was flying corporate we used NiCad batteries and every so often we totally discharged them and then recharged them. How theories have changed.

Bob

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:43 pm Post subject: MK 111 rebuild

Well……reckon I should have put smiley faces on my post, or some such.

 

Why would someone put the battery in the nose if it is not necessary?

 

Why would someone put a 2 lb bat in the nose and run extra battery cable?  Cost more, weighs more, and every inch means a little more voltage drop.

 

Remember, my comments are for myself.  I don't care what you all do with your airplanes.  

 

I find it amusing that folks add weight to the nose of a Kolb, but bust their ass to try and save a couple washers to reduce weight.  

 

This comment below goes right along with the subject above.

 

Miss P'fer is on her newly overhauled gear.  Brian did a super job of straightening the sagging twisted gear legs.  She looks and sits like she did when she was new.  Still have to put the seats back in, hook up the power pack for the Whelen Strobes, and replace a bunch of tie wraps that got cut to remove and replace the wheels, brakes, and gear legs.  Never goes back together easy after it is cut apart and welded, but Dennis did a great job and I was able to get all the bolts back in.  Sure feels good.  

 

Now I need some good weather to clean her up and do a lot of test flying, for me and the airplane.  Forecast rain all week at hauck's holler.

 

Plan to depart to Lakeland Monday, 20 April.  Hope to see a bunch of you all down there.

 

BTW:  I don't know how much my battery weighs or how big the battery cables are, but I can pick them up with two hands if I grunt a little.

 

john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

 

 

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Neilsen

Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2015 1:23 PM

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: MK 111 rebuild



 

John

 



I figure my battery cables are two-three feet longer attaching to my nose cone mounted battery than they would be if they were attached to the battery behind the seat. What size cables do you use. Figuring three feet of cable weighing more than a 12-14 lb battery, those must be mighty big cables.



 



I also switched to a Lithium Iron battery (another brand also less than 2 lb) last summer. The cables are still less than half the weight of that battery. The two lb. battery and app one pound of cables still helps my weight and balance.



 



Rick Neilsen



Redrive VW powered MKIIIC

 

On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 10:41 AM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>



You'll have more weight in cable than battery if it is relocated to the

nose.



I think the numbers on a Kolb W&B weigh more than the actual "aft CG"

problem.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama



--

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:47 am Post subject: Re: MK 111 rebuild

 	  pipercolt wrote: 	
		  Hi Neil

What size battery cable did you use? Yes Richard, that is the battery I was thinking of. Isn't it funny how many years ago when I was flying corporate we used NiCad batteries and every so often we totally discharged them and then recharged them. How theories have changed.

Bob 	




I had a friend at a car sound system shop sell me some of this at a good price: http://www.americanbassusa.com/categories/power---speaker-wires.htm



I have never seen wire cable like this before, it uses extremely small fine wires woven together, it is almost as limp as rope. I used 8 gauge, soldered the end fittings on and it seems to work fine - for 18 years so far.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

Last edited by Richard Pike on Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:25 am Post subject: MK 111 rebuild

On 4/13/2015 8:47 AM, Richard Pike wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 pipercolt wrote:

> Hi Neil

> What size battery cable did you use? Yes Richard, that is the battery I was thinking of. Isn't it funny how many years ago when I was flying corporate we used NiCad batteries and every so often we totally discharged them and then recharged them. How theories have changed.

> Bob

 I had a friend at a car sound system shop sell me some of this at a good price: http://www.americanbassusa.com/categories/power---speaker-wires.htm

 I have never seen large diameter wire like this before, it uses extremely small fine wires woven together, it is almost as limp as rope. I used 8 gauge, soldered the end fittings on and it seems to work fine.

 --------

 Richard Pike

 Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

 Kingsport, TN 3TN0

 There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'

That's how welding cable is made, with the bonus of having durable 

insulation that's probably a lot more fire resistant than the stuff on 

that speaker wire. Very common to see welding cable used for 

battery/starter wire in big...(sorry, John) heavier homebuilts. 

Available in various sizes from any local welding supply shop.

Charlie

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:57 am Post subject: MK 111 rebuild

My MKIII must be an antique.  I bought battery cable from Aircraft Spruce in

1991.  It is aviation grade with a woven fabric chafe guard.



Looked for battery cable at Aircraft Spruce before writing this post.  They

don't have anything that resembles the cable I am using.  Guess it is a

thing of the past.  All they have is what looks like normal 4 and 8 ga

cable.



Could hand prop the 80 horse 912, although it was still risky and not easy

to do because of the sharp edges of the blades.  Hand propping the 912ULS is

out of the question with higher compression ratio on top of the gear

reduction.  It is extremely important for me to be able to rely on battery

start.  Want to make sure I have a system that is going to perform and get

stuck out in the boondocks somewhere.  



On occasion I have failed to turn off the Master Switch and run the battery

down.  If it gets near depletion the alternator will not pick up the charge.

One year at Sun and Fun I had a helper turn on my Master Switch, or I

accidentally hit the toggle switch with my toe getting out of the aircraft.

I got a jump start to get home, but was not able to get the alternator to

pick up the charge.  I flew 425 miles with no electrical system.  Radio was

able to operate on its integral battery.  GPS on its batteries.  Lost all my

electric engine instruments.  All was well until I got to Headland, AL, to

refuel.  No one at the airport to help me.  Could not shut the engine down.

Was able to get close enough to the gas pump to get a chock with my foot,

while I kept the aircraft from rolling away.  Refueled hot, which I did most

of the time in VN, and made the remainder of the flight back to Gantt IAP

without incident. 



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama



 

That's how welding cable is made, with the bonus of having durable

insulation that's probably a lot more fire resistant than the stuff on that

speaker wire. Very common to see welding cable used for battery/starter wire

in big...(sorry, John) heavier homebuilts. 

Available in various sizes from any local welding supply shop.



Charlie

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: MK 111 rebuild

Hard core John, hard core. Good on ya, do what you have to do. I guess I am spoiled, the 582 is a jewel when it comes to hand start.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

pipercolt

Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 46
Location: Randolph New York

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: MK 111 rebuild

Thanks Richard for your last comment about hand propping the 582. I was just about to post that question.

Bob

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