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912s vs. Jabiru 3300?
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darinh

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:29 pm Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

I am trying to make a decision between the 912s and the Jabiru 3300 for my series 7 and would like any and all comments or thoughts on either one.  If anyone has experience with both, their comments would be greatly appreciated.  I like the fact that the Jabiru doesn't have a gearbox and has 20 more hp.  I also like the fact that it has a longer TBO and the cost of that overhaul is substantially less than the Rotax.  The Jabiru is a bit heavier but not much so the weight to hp ratio is about the same.  I have owned a 912UL and I know they are bulletproof (at least mine was), but...



All comments welcome.



Thanks, Darin

Kaufjm(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:39 pm Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

I have a Kitfox IV with a 912 ULS and I'll hopefully never own another  aircraft with a Rotax! I 

  Go with the Jabiru.

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:50 am Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

On Jul 1, 2006, at 6:29 AM, darinh wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   All comments welcome.


	


I have a Jabiru 2200, Darin, and I am extremely pleased with it. I have 

also been for two years on the Yahoo Jabiru list and I hear a lot about 

the 3300. So far no noticeable complain from the owners. Mind you, the 

2200 is so-called third generation engine and the 3300 is newer.

I also like the direct drive, air-cooled principle. In my mind, less is 

more. What doesn't exist, can't brake down.

One thing, though: If you intend to have a complex propeller like 

in-flight pitch adjustable, the Jabiru may not be the best choice 

because, as I understand it, the direct drive transmits engine harmonic 

vibrations to the prop.



Cheers,

Michel

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:38 am Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

 	  Quote: 	
		     I have a Kitfox IV with a 912 ULS and I'll hopefully never own another aircraft with a Rotax! I 

  Go with the Jabiru. Or Subarooooo



	


Looking for love? Check out  XtraMSN Personals

n981ms(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:00 am Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

As I was considering engines, Frank Miller at Skystar suggested to me that the rpm required to get the rated HP on the Jabiru limits prop diameter and therefore short field performance somewhat.  I ended up with the Continental IO240 and I am pleased.  That being said, the guys who actually have Jabirus on Foxes like them a lot.  I have hac 2 friends with Titans and they loved the 4 cylinder Jab.

   

  Maxwell



darinh <gerns25(at)netscape.net> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" 



I am trying to make a decision between the 912s and the Jabiru 3300 for my series 7 and would like any and all comments or thoughts on either one. If anyone has experience with both, their comments would be greatly appreciated. I like the fact that the Jabiru

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:24 am Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

On Jul 1, 2006, at 2:59 PM, W Duke wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   rpm required to get the rated HP on the Jabiru limits prop diameter 

 and therefore short field performance somewhat.


	


That is true. I was told that direct drives deliver lesser torque and 

hence can't spin a large prop. Mine is 60 by 38 inches and only two 

blades. I get off the ground as fast as with the 582 but most probably 

not as with a 912. With 2,400 ft of asphalt, at sea level, in a "cold" 

country, short field performance was not an issue for me.



Cheers,

Michel

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:28 am Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

Darinh,



I just checked the Jabiru website and they do claim a 2000 hour TBO.  What I 

wonder about that is Rotax increased their TBOs stepwise as they gained 

experience with the engines.  My thought is that because the Jabiru engines 

are fairly new by Rotax standards, I doubt there are many Jabs that have 

reached TBO.  I wonder how they got their numbers.



Lowell

---

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:40 am Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

Jon,



I feel exactly the opposite as do all the guys I fly with and the 30 Rotax 

912 series aircraft at the Rans fly-in in Utah last weekend.  I am curious 

about specifics.  You gave us an opinion - how about the reasons for your 

opinion.



Lowell

---

jdmcbean(at)cableone.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:45 am Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

If I remember correctly.. the Jab is a 1000 hour top and a 2000 hour

bottom...



Fly Safe !!

John & Debra McBean

208.337.5111

www.kitfoxaircraft.com   www.sportplanellc.com

"The Sky is not the Limit...  It's a Playground"



--

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:52 am Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

On Jul 1, 2006, at 4:27 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   My thought is that because the Jabiru engines are fairly new by Rotax 

 standards, I doubt there are many Jabs that have reached TBO.  I 

 wonder how they got their numbers.


	


Good point, Lowell, and I have been wondering about the same. But 

first, while TBO is 2,000 hours, the engine needs a cylinder head 

service at 1,000. So, it's not 2,000 hours with only changing the oil 

and filter. Then, I understand that the engine is certified in 

Australia. I don't know all the mumbo-jumbo of what is certified and 

what is not, but I think that their TBO is not only marketing stuff but 

controlled by a stately aviation authority.

Well, with my  132 hours, I still have some time to go before I need to 

worry about TBO! 



Cheers,

Michel

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

mike
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:54 am Post subject: Re: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

Yup, with 700hrs. on mine, without a complaint.  All I do is oil changes and put the dreaded fuel in the tanks.  What's suppose to be wrong with them.

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:01 am Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

Hi Darin,



I was very close to buying the #4 Jabber 3300, but it

was just too much risk for me at the time.  The

factory was not ready to support installation in the

KF yet.  Got the Soob with the whole package instead.



Today I would support the Jabber very strongly.  The

installation, except for cooling ducts, is very simple

and easy to maintain afterwords.  Look at any of the

other planes with a 3300 in them and you would be

impressed as to how simple it can be.  The 6 cylinder

will be smoother than the 4 Rotax.  Overall costs

should be lower than the Rotax, who's parts keep going

up a lot to me.



I have heard nothing seriously bad about the Jabbers

in years.  Just use the right prop.  They don't handle

heavy props well.  But the Rotax has the problems

often talked about on our site.  Thrown carbs, shaking

start, cracks and stuff.  It just makes me think the

Jabber is a bit better.



Only if you need the short field performance of the

long props on Rotax are they the better bet in my

book.



Kurt S.



--- darinh <gerns25(at)netscape.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I am trying to make a decision between the 912s and

 the Jabiru 3300 for my series 7 and would like any

 and all comments or thoughts on either one.  If

 anyone has experience with both, their comments

 would be greatly appreciated.  I like the fact that

 the Jabiru doesn't have a gearbox and has 20 more

 hp.  I also like the fact that it has a longer TBO

 and the cost of that overhaul is substantially less

 than the Rotax.  The Jabiru is a bit heavier but not

 much so the weight to hp ratio is about the same.  I

 have owned a 912UL and I know they are bulletproof

 (at least mine was), but...

 

 All comments welcome.

 

 Thanks, Darin


	


__________________________________________________

darinh

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

I spoke with Pete at USJabiru and he did state that the engine requires a top overhaul at 1000 ($1700 parts and labor) and a complete overhaul at 2000 ($5500 parts and labor).  The cost for overhaul on the Jabiru is significantly cheaper than the Rotax.  



I have heard about the prop issue which for me may be the major deciding factor.  I live in Utah and I try to stay away from pavement as much as possible and take every chance I get to get into the short strips in Idaho.  I don't see why an in-flight adjustable would be a problem though.  These engines are direct drive just like a lycosaurus or continental and they have CS props all the time, granted most in the 120 range have fixed.  If this engine doesn't have the torque down low in the rpm range it seems to me that an in-flight adjustable would be the perfect fit as you could decrease pitch on take off to allow the engine to reach its peak rpm.  I don't want to add the weight of a CS prop and governor so that is out of the question but I very much want to have the ability to increase pitch during flight to get better cruise speed.  I have an emial into USJabiru on the subject and will post it when it comes.



I received my AOPA Pilot mag yesterday and they have a little piece on the 3300 in the "engine talk" section so I will review that and see if it has any pointers.  I also learned that the Certified Legend Cub has an option for the Jabiru 3300 so the engine must have gained certification in the states.  Lastly, someone mentioned that they were curious if Jabiru had many engines that had gone to TBO.  I don't know the answer but it is my understanding that they have been building engines for 14 or 15 years now so my guess is that they have had plenty go that long.  



I am very interested by the engine for the extra power and the simplicity of it being direct drive an all...but I loved my last 912 and if I can't put an IFA prop on the Jab, I think it will be an easy choice.  Thanks for all the comments, and suggestions and keep them coming if anyone has any more.



Darin

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

MY 3 cents worth now.  Again, ride in the airplane with the 3300 and then with the 912ULS.  You will get your answer in a hurry.  The 3300 is 200 cubin inches, same as a 0200.  figure it out.    Clint  PS don't forget your earplugs.

 

 [quote]   

From:  "darinh" <gerns25(at)netscape.net>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  Re: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

Date:  Sat, 1 Jul 2006 15:07:30 -0700

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" <gerns25(at)netscape.net>



I spoke with Pete at USJabiru and he did state that the engine requires a top overhaul at 1000 ($1700 parts and labor) and a complete overhaul at 2000 ($5500 parts and labor).  The cost for overhaul on the Jabiru is significantly cheaper than the Rotax.



I have heard about the prop issue which for me may be the major deciding factor.  I live in Utah and I try to stay away from pavement as much as possible and take every chance I get to get into the short strips in  Idaho.  I don't see why an in-flight adjustable would be a problem though.  These engines are direct drive just like a lycosaurus or continental and they have CS props all the time, granted most in the 120 range have fixed.  If this engine doesn't have the torque down low in the rpm range it seems to me that an in-flight adjustable would be the perfect fit as you could decrease pitch on take off to allow the engine to reach its peak rpm.  I don't want to add the weight of a CS prop and governor so that is out of the question but I very much want to have the ability to increase pitch during flight to get better cruise speed.  I have an emial into USJabiru on the subject and will post it when it comes.



I received my AOPA Pilot mag yesterday and they have a little piece on the 3300 in the "engine talk" section so I will review that  and see if it has any pointers.  I also learned that the Certified Legend Cub has an option for the Jabiru 3300 so the engine must have gained certification in the states.  Lastly, someone mentioned that they were curious if Jabiru had many engines that had gone to TBO.  I don't know the answer but it is my understanding that they have been building engines for 14 or 15 years now so my guess is that they have had plenty go that long.



I am very interested by the engine for the extra power and the simplicity of it being direct drive an all...but I loved my last 912 and if I can't put an IFA prop on the Jab, I think it will be an easy choice.  Thanks for all the comments, and suggestions and keep them coming if anyone has any more.



Darin





Read this topic online

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:14 pm Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

---

taildragon(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->   

 You know, Lowell, John McB would love for you to build a Classic IV with a  Jabiru. You could probably build it in less than a year. You could take it on  your "back-country" trips next summer! Have you (or anyone else out there)  considered an Aero-Lift for your hangar? That way you could build while having  your flying "Fox" hovering over you for inspiration!

  

 Roger

  

 P.S. Or you could use the Rotec radial and have some fun designing a cowl  to fit the Rotec...Wow! Classic airplane, Classic radial!

 [quote]   ---

mike
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

wait a minute.  Do you even know why those carbs fall off?  try because the intake manifolds are reversed to accomidate the cowling on the model 4's.  All you need to do is do the proper start up and shut down and the carbs will not be a factor, same for the cracking of the tubes.  I don't know if you need to do the manifolds on the 7 but the manifolds are reversed on the 4's and below.  With them reversed the carbs are shoved further outside of center, thus any shake of the engine is magnified and causes the carbs to fall off.

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

Hi Roger,  The rumor I hear is that Kitfox LLC has discontinued the Model IV 

to focus on the big airframe.  If I did build one it would have to be a 

"used" kit.  And then I would have to convince myself the Jab would be a 

good idea.  I prefer someone else doing that - I'd go for another Rotax in a 

heart beat..



Lowell



---

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:47 pm Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

Just had a long talk with with Phil Laker.  There new model 7 will come in at 750 lbs with a 912ULS.  Won't lose it's 1550 gross.  Great work for Kitfox.  Clint

 

 [quote]   

From:  "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject:  Re: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

Date:  Sat, 1 Jul 2006 19:20:34 -0700

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>



Hi Roger,  The rumor I hear is that Kitfox LLC has discontinued the Model IV to focus on the big airframe.  If I did build one it would have to be a "used" kit.  And then I would have to convince myself the Jab would be a good idea.  I prefer someone else doing that - I'd go for another Rotax in a heart beat..



Lowell



---

darinh

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300?

 	  clint_bazzill(at)hotmail. wrote: 	
		  MY 3 cents worth now.? Again, ride in the airplane with the 3300 and then with the 912ULS.? You will get your answer in a hurry.? The 3300 is 200 cubin inches, same as a 0200.? figure it out.? ? Clint? PS don't forget your earplugs. 	




Clint,



I don't quite follow, are you saying you think it would be a good idea or not?  The Jab may be 200 cubes like the 0200 but it has 20 more horses and weighs about 25 to 30 lbs less.  I think is would outperform the 0200 hands down...please expound on your post if you will.  I still would like to find someone who has experience with both engines, anybody have any contacts...?

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