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Fuel Vapors in Cockpit

 
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Dee One



Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:25 pm    Post subject: Fuel Vapors in Cockpit Reply with quote

I had my maiden flight in my 2007 Allegro yesterday. One concern that I had was the smell of fuel particularly at low airspeed. My 17 gallon tank is in the fuselage under the seats. Has anyone else experienced this issue and if so what was your resolution? Also, would anyone happen to have a fuel system diagram showing feed lines, return lines, and vent lines . . . This may help to determine where are the vapors are originating from. Thanks for your response.

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hgmckay



Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 377

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:40 am    Post subject: Fuel Vapors in Cockpit Reply with quote

Dee One,

If you are smelling fuel, my first suggestion is "don't fly the plane until
you find the source of the fuel smell". You have too much at stake, your
life!!

Is your airplane a new allegro that was manufactured by LSA America? If it
is call them and ask for help in finding the source of the fuel odor. If you
bought your plane as a used Allegro, I would still call them. Another
question is your Allegro a S-LSA or and E-LSA? If you have a S-LSA Allegro
you probably have only a limited amount of technical information, drawings,
diagrams, etc.. I fly an E-LSA Allegro 2000 model which I built from a Kit
and know intimately, and can only comment on that airplane (which is a
little different than an Allegro 2007 model). On the Allegro 2000 the
electric fuel pump is just in front of the main belly tank under the floor
board. Not sure where it is on the 2007 Model. Also, if you have wing tanks
the plumbing for the fuel lines is much more complex than with out wing
tanks.

My first suggestion is to check the two fuel vent connections on the main
fuel tank under your seat. They should be located just inside the cockpit on
the very left side of the tank under the carpet covering.
My second suggestion is to remove the top engine cowl and carefully inspect
ALL the fuel line connections to the mechanical fuel pump, the fuel
distributer (a five prong device that has five fuel lines connected to it)
located on the top of the engine, and all fuel lines down stream from the
fuel distributer. One of these downstream lines is a vent line back to the
main fuel tank, one goes to the fuel pressure gage on your instrument
panel(if you have a mechanical pressure gage), two go to the two carbs., and
the last is the line coming in from the engine fuel pump.

My third suggestion is to find out where the electric fuel pump is located.
If it is under the floor board remove the floor board and check the fuel
line connections to the electric fuel pump and the fuel tank, and the
gascolator if it has one, and all other fuel line connections between the
gascolator and the engine fuel pump.

Do these inspections in sequence and hopefully you will find the problem,
but by all means don't fly the plane until you find the source of fuel odor
and correct it.

Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow, L.M. ASCE
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037

Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
--


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Dee One



Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:51 pm    Post subject: Fuel Vapors in Cockpit Reply with quote

Hello Hugh, good to hear back from you. I have already completed all of the actions that you have suggested below. I have checked all the connections and they all look good. I have made a fuel system diagram and it is as you described below. The only anomaly that I found was fuel stains on the belly between the gascolater (which is in front of the firewall) and the fuel tank drain valve. The fumes may be coming from the gascolater and it may have a bad gasket. I will check into that. Thanks again. Dee LeBlanc
Aerospace Engineer, AIAA
Aero One Ltd
leblancds(at)cox.net (leblancds(at)cox.net)
cell 225-802-1038
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Past is History
The Future is a Mystery
Today is a Gift
That’s Why They Call it the Present

[quote]On Apr 4, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
--> Allegro-List message posted by: "Hugh McKay" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)>Dee One,If you are smelling fuel, my first suggestion is "don't fly the plane until you find the source of the fuel smell". You have too much at stake, your life!!Is your airplane a new allegro that was manufactured by LSA America? If it is call them and ask for help in finding the source of the fuel odor. If you bought your plane as a used Allegro, I would still call them. Another question is your Allegro a S-LSA or and E-LSA? If you have a S-LSA Allegro you probably have only a limited amount of technical information, drawings, diagrams, etc.. I fly an E-LSA Allegro 2000 model which I built from a Kit and know intimately, and can only comment on that airplane (which is a little different than an Allegro 2007 model). On the Allegro 2000 the electric fuel pump is just in front of the main belly tank under the floor board. Not sure where it is on the 2007 Model. Also, if you have wing tanks the plumbing for the fuel lines is much more complex than with out wing tanks.My first suggestion is to check the two fuel vent connections on the main fuel tank under your seat. They should be located just inside the cockpit on the very left side of the tank under the carpet covering.My second suggestion is to remove the top engine cowl and carefully inspect ALL the fuel line connections to the mechanical fuel pump, the fuel distributer (a five prong device that has five fuel lines connected to it) located on the top of the engine, and all fuel lines down stream from the fuel distributer. One of these downstream lines is a vent line back to the main fuel tank, one goes to the fuel pressure gage on your instrument panel(if you have a mechanical pressure gage), two go to the two carbs., and the last is the line coming in from the engine fuel pump.My third suggestion is to find out where the electric fuel pump is located. If it is under the floor board remove the floor board and check the fuel line connections to the electric fuel pump and the fuel tank, and the gascolator if it has one, and all other fuel line connections between the gascolator and the engine fuel pump.Do these inspections in sequence and hopefully you will find the problem, but by all means don't fly the plane until you find the source of fuel odor and correct it.Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow, L.M. ASCESenior ConsultantWorldwide Engineering Inc.4090 North NC Hwy. 16Denver, NC 28037Ph. 704-661-8271Fax 704-483-5466email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)http://www.wwegeo.com--


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The Past is History
The Future is a Mystery
Today is a Gift
That’s Why They Call it the Present
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hgmckay



Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 377

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:43 pm    Post subject: Fuel Vapors in Cockpit Reply with quote

Dee,

If all other fuel connections are good the problem may very well be at the gascolater, especially if there are fuel stains on the underside of the airplane’s belly. If the gascolater has never been opened it may have a bad gasket to begin with, or if it has been opened to check for contaminated fuel and bulb re-set; the gasket could be pinched, or the bulb not seated properly on the gasket before tightening. Another possibility is that the bulb itself is cracked due to over tightening. Either of these could cause a small fuel lake at the gascolater which because if its location would allow fumes to come up inside the cockpit under the floor board when taxiing (low engine rpms and very low air speed. speeds. It is going to be hard to determine if the bulb gasket is damaged because of its location, but you can check the integrity of the bulb by simply removing it and carefully inspecting it. I would check the bulb first. If it is not damaged (cracked), then carefully inspect the gasket seat in the bulb housing using a bright light. Of course before you do this you will have to drain all the fuel!

Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow, L.M. ASCE
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037

Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com

From: Dee LeBlanc (leblancds(at)cox.net)
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2016 4:51 PM
To: allegro-list(at)matronics.com (allegro-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Fuel Vapors in Cockpit


Hello Hugh, good to hear back from you. I have already completed all of the actions that you have suggested below. I have checked all the connections and they all look good. I have made a fuel system diagram and it is as you described below. The only anomaly that I found was fuel stains on the belly between the gascolater (which is in front of the firewall) and the fuel tank drain valve. The fumes may be coming from the gascolater and it may have a bad gasket. I will check into that. Thanks again.
Dee LeBlanc
Aerospace Engineer, AIAA
Aero One Ltd
leblancds(at)cox.net (leblancds(at)cox.net)
cell 225-802-1038
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Past is History
The Future is a Mystery
Today is a Gift
That’s Why They Call it the Present









Quote:
On Apr 4, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

--> Allegro-List message posted by: "Hugh McKay" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)>

Dee One,

If you are smelling fuel, my first suggestion is "don't fly the plane until you find the source of the fuel smell". You have too much at stake, your life!!

Is your airplane a new allegro that was manufactured by LSA America? If it is call them and ask for help in finding the source of the fuel odor. If you bought your plane as a used Allegro, I would still call them. Another question is your Allegro a S-LSA or and E-LSA? If you have a S-LSA Allegro you probably have only a limited amount of technical information, drawings, diagrams, etc.. I fly an E-LSA Allegro 2000 model which I built from a Kit and know intimately, and can only comment on that airplane (which is a little different than an Allegro 2007 model). On the Allegro 2000 the electric fuel pump is just in front of the main belly tank under the floor board. Not sure where it is on the 2007 Model. Also, if you have wing tanks the plumbing for the fuel lines is much more complex than with out wing tanks.

My first suggestion is to check the two fuel vent connections on the main fuel tank under your seat. They should be located just inside the cockpit on the very left side of the tank under the carpet covering.
My second suggestion is to remove the top engine cowl and carefully inspect ALL the fuel line connections to the mechanical fuel pump, the fuel distributer (a five prong device that has five fuel lines connected to it) located on the top of the engine, and all fuel lines down stream from the fuel distributer. One of these downstream lines is a vent line back to the main fuel tank, one goes to the fuel pressure gage on your instrument panel(if you have a mechanical pressure gage), two go to the two carbs., and the last is the line coming in from the engine fuel pump.

My third suggestion is to find out where the electric fuel pump is located. If it is under the floor board remove the floor board and check the fuel line connections to the electric fuel pump and the fuel tank, and the gascolator if it has one, and all other fuel line connections between the gascolator and the engine fuel pump.

Do these inspections in sequence and hopefully you will find the problem, but by all means don't fly the plane until you find the source of fuel odor and correct it.

Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow, L.M. ASCE
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037

Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)
http://www.wwegeo.com
-----Original Message----- From: Dee One
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2016 4:25 PM
To: allegro-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Fuel Vapors in Cockpit

--> Allegro-List message posted by: "Dee One" <leblancds(at)cox.net>

I had my maiden flight in my 2007 Allegro yesterday. One concern that I had was the smell of fuel particularly at low airspeed. My 17 gallon tank is in the fuselage under the seats. Has anyone else experienced this issue and if so what was your resolution? Also, would anyone happen to have a fuel system diagram showing feed lines, return lines, and vent lines . . . This may help to determine where are the vapors are originating from. Thanks for your response.

--------
The Past is History
The Future is a Mystery
Today is a Gift
That’s Why They Call it the Present


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454512#454512





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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Allegro-List
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Dee One



Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:59 pm    Post subject: Fuel Vapors in Cockpit Reply with quote

OK Hugh, Will pursue this avenue. Thanks for your advice.
Dee



Quote:
On Apr 4, 2016, at 6:43 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
Dee,

If all other fuel connections are good the problem may very well be at the gascolater, especially if there are fuel stains on the underside of the airplane’s belly. If the gascolater has never been opened it may have a bad gasket to begin with, or if it has been opened to check for contaminated fuel and bulb re-set; the gasket could be pinched, or the bulb not seated properly on the gasket before tightening. Another possibility is that the bulb itself is cracked due to over tightening. Either of these could cause a small fuel lake at the gascolater which because if its location would allow fumes to come up inside the cockpit under the floor board when taxiing (low engine rpms and very low air speed. speeds. It is going to be hard to determine if the bulb gasket is damaged because of its location, but you can check the integrity of the bulb by simply removing it and carefully inspecting it. I would check the bulb first. If it is not damaged (cracked), then carefully inspect the gasket seat in the bulb housing using a bright light. Of course before you do this you will have to drain all the fuel!

Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow, L.M. ASCESenior ConsultantWorldwide Engineering Inc.4090 North NC Hwy. 16Denver, NC 28037Ph. 704-661-8271Fax 704-483-5466email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)http://www.wwegeo.com

From: Dee LeBlanc (leblancds(at)cox.net)
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2016 4:51 PM
To: allegro-list(at)matronics.com (allegro-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Fuel Vapors in Cockpit


Hello Hugh, good to hear back from you. I have already completed all of the actions that you have suggested below. I have checked all the connections and they all look good. I have made a fuel system diagram and it is as you described below. The only anomaly that I found was fuel stains on the belly between the gascolater (which is in front of the firewall) and the fuel tank drain valve. The fumes may be coming from the gascolater and it may have a bad gasket. I will check into that. Thanks again.
Dee LeBlanc
Aerospace Engineer, AIAA
Aero One Ltd
leblancds(at)cox.net (leblancds(at)cox.net)
cell 225-802-1038
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Past is History
The Future is a Mystery
Today is a Gift
That’s Why They Call it the Present








Quote:
On Apr 4, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

--> Allegro-List message posted by: "Hugh McKay" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)>Dee One,If you are smelling fuel, my first suggestion is "don't fly the plane until you find the source of the fuel smell". You have too much at stake, your life!!Is your airplane a new allegro that was manufactured by LSA America? If it is call them and ask for help in finding the source of the fuel odor. If you bought your plane as a used Allegro, I would still call them. Another question is your Allegro a S-LSA or and E-LSA? If you have a S-LSA Allegro you probably have only a limited amount of technical information, drawings, diagrams, etc.. I fly an E-LSA Allegro 2000 model which I built from a Kit and know intimately, and can only comment on that airplane (which is a little different than an Allegro 2007 model). On the Allegro 2000 the electric fuel pump is just in front of the main belly tank under the floor board. Not sure where it is on the 2007 Model. Also, if you have wing tanks the plumbing for the fuel lines is much more complex than with out wing tanks.My first suggestion is to check the two fuel vent connections on the main fuel tank under your seat. They should be located just inside the cockpit on the very left side of the tank under the carpet covering.My second suggestion is to remove the top engine cowl and carefully inspect ALL the fuel line connections to the mechanical fuel pump, the fuel distributer (a five prong device that has five fuel lines connected to it) located on the top of the engine, and all fuel lines down stream from the fuel distributer. One of these downstream lines is a vent line back to the main fuel tank, one goes to the fuel pressure gage on your instrument panel(if you have a mechanical pressure gage), two go to the two carbs., and the last is the line coming in from the engine fuel pump.My third suggestion is to find out where the electric fuel pump is located. If it is under the floor board remove the floor board and check the fuel line connections to the electric fuel pump and the fuel tank, and the gascolator if it has one, and all other fuel line connections between the gascolator and the engine fuel pump.Do these inspections in sequence and hopefully you will find the problem, but by all means don't fly the plane until you find the source of fuel odor and correct it.Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow, L.M. ASCESenior ConsultantWorldwide Engineering Inc.4090 North NC Hwy. 16Denver, NC 28037Ph. 704-661-8271Fax 704-483-5466email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)allegro-list(at)matronics.com (allegro-list(at)matronics.com)Subject: Fuel Vapors in Cockpit--> Allegro-List message posted by: "Dee One" <leblancds(at)cox.net (leblancds(at)cox.net)>I had my maiden flight in my 2007 Allegro yesterday. One concern that I had was the smell of fuel particularly at low airspeed. My 17 gallon tank is in the fuselage under the seats. Has anyone else experienced this issue and if so what was your resolution? Also, would anyone happen to have a fuel system diagram showing feed lines, return lines, and vent lines . . . This may help to determine where are the vapors are originating from. Thanks for your response.--------The Past is HistoryThe Future is a MysteryToday is a GiftThat’s Why They Call it the PresentRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454512#454512








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aerosiam



Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:32 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel Vapors in Cockpit Reply with quote

Dee, do you have wing tanks ?

I had a problem of fuel vapour smells but only on the climb out. The translucent small fuel overflow / vent lines from the wing tanks were the problem. The original connections and Tees looked ok but they leaked. If I remember correctely, the hoses didn't quite fit over the barbs and the material was soft. I changed them all and the problem went away.

Regards
Paul


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