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Fuselage #30 rivets

 
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JOHN TIPTON



Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 218
Location: Torquay - England

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 2:39 am    Post subject: Fuselage #30 rivets Reply with quote

Hi Guys

There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals, does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed

Regards

John


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 7:06 am    Post subject: Fuselage #30 rivets Reply with quote

On 5/22/2016 5:39 AM, JOHN TIPTON wrote:
Quote:


Hi Guys

There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals, does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed

Regards

John

I'm building a -7 (same fuselage), & can't figure out which area you're
talking about. Having said that, I'm not an aero engineer, so I try not
to second guess the designer (who, hopefully, is) if the area is
structural. Perhaps the cover you're talking about is required to
complete an area that's structurally significant.

Charlie


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gyoung



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 207
Location: Republic of Texas

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 7:18 am    Post subject: Fuselage #30 rivets Reply with quote

The short answer is yes. Van is a minimalist. His designs do not include anything he doesn't believe is needed. The RV's also use mostly -3 rivets so when they use -4's it's for a reason.

Greg Young

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JOHN TIPTON



Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 218
Location: Torquay - England

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 9:33 am    Post subject: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets Reply with quote

Charlie

Can't imagine you don't know what the tunnel cover is:

https://buildaplane.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/4-f-741b-center-tunnel-cover-fabricated-and-ready-to-drill.jpg. (Full acknowledgement to the copyright owner)

John


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dickseiders(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 10:57 am    Post subject: Fuselage #30 rivets Reply with quote

Read Greg young's answer again.
Dick seiders

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On May 22, 2016, at 12:33 PM, JOHN TIPTON <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> wrote:



Charlie

Can't imagine you don't know what the tunnel cover is:

https://buildaplane.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/4-f-741b-center-tunnel-cover-fabricated-and-ready-to-drill.jpg. (Full acknowledgement to the copyright owner)

John




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456447#456447












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halbenjamin101(at)gmail.c
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 11:25 am    Post subject: Fuselage #30 rivets Reply with quote

Greg is right on. Besides, if you build it per Van's instructions that is one thing less to worry about as you're about to advance the throttle on your first flight!
Hal Benjamin
RV-4 Flying
Long Island, NY
218 Hours

Sent from my iPad

[quote] On May 22, 2016, at 11:17 AM, "bigdog(at)bentwing.com" <bigdog(at)bentwing.com> wrote:



The short answer is yes. Van is a minimalist. His designs do not include anything he doesn't believe is needed. The RV's also use mostly -3 rivets so when they use -4's it's for a reason.

Greg Young

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JOHN TIPTON



Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 218
Location: Torquay - England

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets Reply with quote

Van is a 'minimalist' - I thought his planes were over engineered (bullet proof) - but I stand corrected

John


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 12:14 pm    Post subject: Fuselage #30 rivets Reply with quote

Van is not known for an excessive use of anything. If the plans call for it, do it!

Harry Crosby

RV-6 N16CX, 1365 hours.

From: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com>
To: "RV-List" <rv-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 3:39:39 AM
Subject: Fuselage #30 rivets
--> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com>
Hi Guys
There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals, does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed
Regards
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456436#456436
-Matt Dralle, List ==========


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jsflyrv(at)frontier.com
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 12:16 pm    Post subject: Fuselage #30 rivets Reply with quote

I think you took Greg's answer in the wrong way. Van's airplanes ARE
over engineered.

JOHN TIPTON wrote:
Quote:


Van is a 'minimalist' - I thought his planes were over engineered (bullet proof) - but I stand corrected

John


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456456#456456



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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 1:19 pm    Post subject: Fuselage #30 rivets Reply with quote

Van's designs are "well engineered". Some things like the original spar were over engineered. Other areas were maybe a little light and prone to cracking but they have been corrected as the designs matured.

After all of the things we have put Van's planes thru over the years I think it is safe to say that they have stood the test of time, so I would recommend building per plans. Small downside, large upside.

-GV


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JOHN TIPTON



Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 218
Location: Torquay - England

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets Reply with quote

I agree

John


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 2:17 pm    Post subject: Fuselage #30 rivets Reply with quote

On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 12:33 PM, JOHN TIPTON <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com (jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com (jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com)>

Charlie

Can't imagine you don't know what the tunnel cover is:

https://buildaplane.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/4-f-741b-center-tunnel-cover-fabricated-and-ready-to-drill.jpg. (Full acknowledgement to theĀ  copyright owner)

John


Thought that might be what you were talking about, but wasn't sure. (Had to go find mine; it's been a while since I built it.)
Look at what it's built of, and what it's expected to withstand in normal use. That's pretty heavy Z channel for a 'cover,' no? Why not use .030 sheet instead of extruded Z stock, & bend it up out of one piece? But what happens when your 200 lb passenger plants their foot on it and pushes off, exiting the plane?
Van is a minimalist, *and* the planes are over-built. I'm sure you can work out the paradox.
Charlie


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 2:31 pm    Post subject: Fuselage #30 rivets Reply with quote

On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 5:16 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:


On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 12:33 PM, JOHN TIPTON <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com (jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com (jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com)>

Charlie

Can't imagine you don't know what the tunnel cover is:

https://buildaplane.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/4-f-741b-center-tunnel-cover-fabricated-and-ready-to-drill.jpg. (Full acknowledgement to theĀ  copyright owner)

John


Thought that might be what you were talking about, but wasn't sure. (Had to go find mine; it's been a while since I built it.)
Look at what it's built of, and what it's expected to withstand in normal use. That's pretty heavy Z channel for a 'cover,' no? Why not use .030 sheet instead of extruded Z stock, & bend it up out of one piece? But what happens when your 200 lb passenger plants their foot on it and pushes off, exiting the plane?
Van is a minimalist, *and* the planes are over-built. I'm sure you can work out the paradox.
Charlie



Should have added (or maybe led with), My kit didn't come with any universal head 3/32 rivets. Maybe the engineer decided that 1/8 round heads (already in the kit) would be fine and avoid the need to dimple the top piece & countersink the Z channels.


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