Matronics Email Lists Forum Index Matronics Email Lists
BBS Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
 
 Get Email Distribution Too!Get Email Distribution Too!    FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

PTFE tubing for aviation fuel

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV-List
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
JOHN TIPTON



Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 223
Location: Torquay - England

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:16 am    Post subject: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel Reply with quote

Hi a Guys

Is a PTFE lined SS tubing OK for aviation fuel

http://www.exact-eng.co.uk/catalogue/300_series_smoothbore_ptfe_hose.htm

Regards

John


- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:20 am    Post subject: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel Reply with quote

Looks similar to Aeroquip 666 hose from Aircraft Spruce.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aq666.php?clickkey=46065
JIC fittings for the teflon hose can be found at most any good hydraulic
outlet.
I would guess that if the dimensions correlate (I don't do 'mm' very
well) it would be great for fuel.

Linn

On 8/8/2016 6:16 AM, JOHN TIPTON wrote:
Quote:


Hi a Guys

Is a PTFE lined SS tubing OK for aviation fuel

http://www.exact-eng.co.uk/catalogue/300_series_smoothbore_ptfe_hose.htm

Regards

John


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459312#459312




- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
Back to top
Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1456
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:17 am    Post subject: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel Reply with quote

I agree that the hose should be okay, however, all such hose in the US
has to have the fittings professionally installed. The teflon is most
commonly used as core for integral fire sleeve tubing such as Aeroquip
466 or Parker 124J.
I assume different tooling and fittings than your common Aeroquip 303.

On 8/8/2016 5:19 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
Quote:


Looks similar to Aeroquip 666 hose from Aircraft Spruce.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aq666.php?clickkey=46065
JIC fittings for the teflon hose can be found at most any good hydraulic
outlet.
I would guess that if the dimensions correlate (I don't do 'mm' very
well) it would be great for fuel.

Linn

On 8/8/2016 6:16 AM, JOHN TIPTON wrote:
>
>
> Hi a Guys
>
> Is a PTFE lined SS tubing OK for aviation fuel
>
> http://www.exact-eng.co.uk/catalogue/300_series_smoothbore_ptfe_hose.htm
>
> Regards
>
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459312#459312
>
>



- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
n146wb(at)cfu.net
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:47 am    Post subject: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel Reply with quote

I've been using this type of hose on my RV-6 for almost 9 years with no
problems. I did change the hose several years ago, but only because I had
to remove the engine so it was a convenient time to replace all the hoses.

--


- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
Back to top
vanremog(at)aol.com
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:04 am    Post subject: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel Reply with quote

Yes. but there is a concern. Extruded PTFE can split over time due to pressure variations (pulsing from reciprocating pumps) as the hose ages. There are better choices in elastomeric hose.

-GV


--


- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
Back to top
flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:25 am    Post subject: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel Reply with quote

Hmmm .... the description on ACS says "Construction of Aeroquip 666 hose is of spiral extruded Teflon™ resin" which may be different for hose just "straight extruded" ..... YMMV
Linn
On 8/8/2016 11:04 AM, vanremog(at)aol.com (vanremog(at)aol.com) wrote:

[quote] Yes. but there is a concern.  Extruded PTFE can split over time due to pressure variations (pulsing from reciprocating pumps) as the hose ages.  There are better choices in elastomeric hose.
 
-GV
 
 
--


- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
Back to top
vanremog(at)aol.com
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:51 am    Post subject: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel Reply with quote

I should correct my info. Apparently this early problem has since been corrected in all PTFE hose sold for fuel use.

Sorry for the misstep. I didn't mean to muddy the water.

-GV


--


- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
Back to top
rampil



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 836

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel Reply with quote

The PTFE you choose should also have an internal conductive strip to prevent static discharge

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

_________________
Ira N224XS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1456
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:21 pm    Post subject: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel Reply with quote

I don't know if you can buy the necessary fittings and hose for
experimental aircraft. I know that no hose shop will sell the Aeroquip
466 or Parker 124J as raw hose. You have to buy pre-made on the integral
firesleeve version. It may have to with the molded firesleeve on the
outside, and not the fittings. Aeroquip 666 may be different, so I may
have mis-stated the requirement.

On 8/8/2016 6:42 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
Quote:
Kelly is correct. The aeroquip 491-X fittings for the aeroquip 303
hose are not compatible with the aeroquip 666 braided stainless teflon
hose. The F-66000-X for the 666 hose has a 'flare' on the hose side.

All the fittings like this that I've seen are steel .... which is what
you want under the cowl ...... haven't seen any aluminum ones yet.
The F-66000-X fittings go together with two wrenches and do not require
a mandrel like the 303 hose fittings or being crimped.
I wasn't aware of the requirement that the fittings be 'professionally
installed'. I'd like Kelly to expand on that ...... what's that phrase
mean??
Linn

On 8/8/2016 9:17 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>
> I agree that the hose should be okay, however, all such hose in the US
> has to have the fittings professionally installed. The teflon is most
> commonly used as core for integral fire sleeve tubing such as Aeroquip
> 466 or Parker 124J.
> I assume different tooling and fittings than your common Aeroquip 303.
>
> On 8/8/2016 5:19 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>>
>>
>> Looks similar to Aeroquip 666 hose from Aircraft Spruce.
>> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aq666.php?clickkey=46065
>> JIC fittings for the teflon hose can be found at most any good hydraulic
>> outlet.
>> I would guess that if the dimensions correlate (I don't do 'mm' very
>> well) it would be great for fuel.
>>
>> Linn
>>
>> On 8/8/2016 6:16 AM, JOHN TIPTON wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi a Guys
>>>
>>> Is a PTFE lined SS tubing OK for aviation fuel
>>>
>>> http://www.exact-eng.co.uk/catalogue/300_series_smoothbore_ptfe_hose.htm
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459312#459312
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>



- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:39 pm    Post subject: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel Reply with quote

OK, I'll bite. Why? The fuel in the hose is too rich to ignite even if
it gets lots of air in it, and the steel ends are connected by the
stainless steel braid.
I agree that having the conductive strip would further lessen the
possibility of static discharge but don't see it as an absolute
necessity. But then, if we were anal about removing all possible risk
.... we probably wouldn't fly an experimental airplane ..... IMHO of
course.
Linn

On 8/8/2016 3:11 PM, rampil wrote:
Quote:


The PTFE you choose should also have an internal conductive strip to prevent static discharge

--------
Ira N224XS


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459335#459335




- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
Back to top
ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:30 pm    Post subject: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel Reply with quote

Without some form of conductive material in the liner, the fuel moving
through the line can generate a large static potential. It's not an
issue inside the hose, it's the 'potential potential difference' the
beginning and end points that pose a risk. The conductive liner
'prevents static discharge' by bleeding off any charge as it develops
(or prevents its development). Really no different from the requirement
that you ground the a/c before fueling; it keeps both ends at the same
electrical potential so there can be no spark from charge equalization.

On 8/8/2016 3:38 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
Quote:


OK, I'll bite. Why? The fuel in the hose is too rich to ignite even
if it gets lots of air in it, and the steel ends are connected by the
stainless steel braid.
I agree that having the conductive strip would further lessen the
possibility of static discharge but don't see it as an absolute
necessity. But then, if we were anal about removing all possible risk
..... we probably wouldn't fly an experimental airplane ..... IMHO of
course.
Linn

On 8/8/2016 3:11 PM, rampil wrote:
>
>
> The PTFE you choose should also have an internal conductive strip to
> prevent static discharge
>
> --------
> Ira N224XS


- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
Back to top
gyoung



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 207
Location: Republic of Texas

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:57 pm    Post subject: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel Reply with quote

I get that but why does it have to be in the liner To restate Linn's point - Doesn't the SS braid connected to the metal fittings on both ends equalize the potential?

--


- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:09 pm    Post subject: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel Reply with quote

I got this answer in an offline email ...... thought it should be shared
.....

The issue with non conductive Teflon hose is that over time it will leak. The fluid flowing through it creates static discharge which over time will create pinhole leaks and cause the hose to seep.

Linn
On 8/8/2016 5:56 PM, bigdog(at)bentwing.com wrote:
[quote]

I get that but why does it have to be in the liner To restate Linn's point - Doesn't the SS braid connected to the metal fittings on both ends equalize the potential?

--


- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
Back to top
ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:32 pm    Post subject: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel Reply with quote

If we ignore the possibility that the stainless braid connection could
fail, there's still the fact that the fuel itself will take on a charge
as it flows through the line (if the line isn't conductive). I did a
quick google search trying to find an easy technical description, &
stumbled onto another reason for the conductive liner (that I've read
about, but had forgotten).
http://ionixgastechnologies.com/Static%20Control%20in%20PE%20Fuel%20Gas%20Pipe.pdf
The link is about 'natural' gas; not liquid fuel, but the same principle
applies. Static buildup in the fuel can actually discharge *through* the
non-conductive liner into the grounded braid, burning pinholes in the
liner. Here's a link to a mfgr's page on the type of line we're discussing:
http://racetronix.com/press-release/551/

I'll bet you can't even find a fuel-rated PTFE lined hose these days
that doesn't have a conductive material added.

Charlie

On 8/8/2016 4:56 PM, bigdog(at)bentwing.com wrote:
[quote]

I get that but why does it have to be in the liner To restate Linn's point - Doesn't the SS braid connected to the metal fittings on both ends equalize the potential?

--


- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV-List All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group