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kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
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 Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:41 pm Post subject: I Hate Leaking Fuel Tanks! |
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Hmmm
There I said it!
Anyway, over the past few months I have developed rivet line leaks in both my QB tanks along the inboard line of fuel tank rivets on the tank bottom. I am hoping that it is the rivets that are leaking and not between the flange and the bottom tank skin. Is there something special about how these inboard flanges are sealed that makes them prone to leaks.
To date my only leaks have been on the rivets on the top of the tanks.
If the leak(s) are between the skin and the flange, is there a good (and simple) way to correct the problem?
Cheers
Les
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flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:07 pm Post subject: I Hate Leaking Fuel Tanks! |
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The only thing I've heard of to seal really small leaks is green
Loctite. You need to clean the hole with acetone. Pull a small vacuum
on the tank and suck the acetone through the hole .... the more the
better ..... and then let that evaporate. Then apply the loctite so it
get sucked into the hole.
Linn
On 10/13/2016 4:41 PM, kearney wrote:
| Quote: |
Hmmm
There I said it!
Anyway, over the past few months I have developed rivet line leaks in both my QB tanks along the inboard line of fuel tank rivets on the tank bottom. I am hoping that it is the rivets that are leaking and not between the flange and the bottom tank skin. Is there something special about how these inboard flanges are sealed that makes them prone to leaks.
To date my only leaks have been on the rivets on the top of the tanks.
If the leak(s) are between the skin and the flange, is there a good (and simple) way to correct the problem?
Cheers
Les
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461241#461241
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cooprv7(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:26 pm Post subject: I Hate Leaking Fuel Tanks! |
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Very frustrating indeed! Real fun thing is they did not become an issue until after I had the airplane painted.
I actually had pretty good success using the green Loctite (penetrating) others had recommended in the past. It took a lot of applications but no surgery.
Marcus
On Oct 13, 2016, at 4:41 PM, kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
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sportav8r(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:57 am Post subject: I Hate Leaking Fuel Tanks! |
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Disclaimer: I have some slowly seeping rivets on y 20year old 6, but have not yet performed this repair. I have read about it and thought about it quite a bit.
Pulling vacuum on the fuel tank is inherently risky, as atmospheric pressure can distort and crease the tank if it should partially collapse. It takes surprisingly little vacuum, I am told, to accomplish this.
Since the idea is to create a pressure differential across the leaking area to migrate solvent and Loctite into the area, I believe a suitable and completely safe alternative is to apply local higher pressure to the outside of the tank, instead of pulling vacuum on the inside. A syringe attached to a suction cup, or with the tip cut off to leave a straight cylinder, ringed with a bead of RTV(cured) to allow a press-seal against the tank skin, should suffice to apply gentle pressure. This should let you push the acetone and the green Loctite in without risking any structural damage. Pressure should only be needed for a few seconds, not for the entire Loctite curing time. With a suitable seal on the hose end, you could use the pressure side of your shop vac to accomplish this.
My opinion only, FWIW. Â
Bill B
On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com (flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com (flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com)>
The only thing I've heard of to seal really small leaks is green Loctite. You need to clean the hole with acetone. Pull a small vacuum on the tank and suck the acetone through the hole .... the more the better ..... and then let that evaporate. Then apply the loctite so it get sucked into the hole.
Linn
On 10/13/2016 4:41 PM, kearney wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: "kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)>
Hmmm
There I said it!
Anyway, over the past few months I have developed rivet line leaks in both my QB tanks along the inboard line of fuel tank rivets on the tank bottom. I am hoping that it is the rivets that are leaking and not between the flange and the bottom tank skin. Is there something special about how these inboard flanges are sealed that makes them prone to leaks.
To date my only leaks have been on the rivets on the top of the tanks.
If the leak(s) are between the skin and the flange, is there a good (and simple) way to correct the problem?
Cheers
Les
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461241#461241
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dmaib@me.com
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 454
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:42 am Post subject: Re: I Hate Leaking Fuel Tanks! |
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| sportav8r(at)gmail.com wrote: | Disclaimer: I have some slowly seeping rivets on y 20year old 6, but have not yet performed this repair. I have read about it and thought about it quite a bit.
Pulling vacuum on the fuel tank is inherently risky, as atmospheric pressure can distort and crease the tank if it should partially collapse. It takes surprisingly little vacuum, I am told, to accomplish this.
Since the idea is to create a pressure differential across the leaking area to migrate solvent and Loctite into the area, I believe a suitable and completely safe alternative is to apply local higher pressure to the outside of the tank, instead of pulling vacuum on the inside. A syringe attached to a suction cup, or with the tip cut off to leave a straight cylinder, ringed with a bead of RTV(cured) to allow a press-seal against the tank skin, should suffice to apply gentle pressure. This should let you push the acetone and the green Loctite in without risking any structural damage. Pressure should only be needed for a few seconds, not for the entire Loctite curing time. With a suitable seal on the hose end, you could use the pressure side of your shop vac to accomplish this.
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[/quote]
This procedure has been used successfully. I first heard about it from Dan Landry who successfully cured seeping rivets on his RV-6 tanks using a syringe as you describe. He used Plio Bond instead of green loctite. I tried this on two long time seeping rivets on my RV-10 last spring prior to the airplane being repainted. It has been successful for me at this time. Airplane repainted in May and so far, no more seeping on the offending rivets.
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David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL |
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flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:39 am Post subject: I Hate Leaking Fuel Tanks! |
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Great thoughts Bill! The more options there are, the better the choice that fits the circumstances. The vacuum method allows you to treat many leaks simultaneously without damage if you're careful. A really slow leak will take longer to see results.
Actually, a shop-vac loosely in the fuel filler generates enough 'suction' to get the liquid through the hole. If the drop(s) don't disappear loosely fit a rag around the hose. The drawback is the noise.
A Mighty Vac hooked up to the vent line will work also. You'll run out of gripping power before you pull enough vacuum to deform the tank. Either way, if your method of choice starts to deform the tank .... quit! That's too much and unnecessary. Work slowly and carefully.
Linn
On 10/15/2016 8:57 AM, Bill Boyd wrote:
| Quote: | Disclaimer: I have some slowly seeping rivets on y 20year old 6, but have not yet performed this repair. I have read about it and thought about it quite a bit.
Pulling vacuum on the fuel tank is inherently risky, as atmospheric pressure can distort and crease the tank if it should partially collapse. It takes surprisingly little vacuum, I am told, to accomplish this.
Since the idea is to create a pressure differential across the leaking area to migrate solvent and Loctite into the area, I believe a suitable and completely safe alternative is to apply local higher pressure to the outside of the tank, instead of pulling vacuum on the inside. A syringe attached to a suction cup, or with the tip cut off to leave a straight cylinder, ringed with a bead of RTV(cured) to allow a press-seal against the tank skin, should suffice to apply gentle pressure. This should let you push the acetone and the green Loctite in without risking any structural damage. Pressure should only be needed for a few seconds, not for the entire Loctite curing time. With a suitable seal on the hose end, you could use the pressure side of your shop vac to accomplish this.
My opinion only, FWIW. Â
Bill B
On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com (flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com (flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com)>
The only thing I've heard of to seal really small leaks is green Loctite. You need to clean the hole with acetone. Pull a small vacuum on the tank and suck the acetone through the hole .... the more the better ..... and then let that evaporate. Then apply the loctite so it get sucked into the hole.
Linn
On 10/13/2016 4:41 PM, kearney wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: "kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)>
Hmmm
There I said it!
Anyway, over the past few months I have developed rivet line leaks in both my QB tanks along the inboard line of fuel tank rivets on the tank bottom. I am hoping that it is the rivets that are leaking and not between the flange and the bottom tank skin. Is there something special about how these inboard flanges are sealed that makes them prone to leaks.
To date my only leaks have been on the rivets on the top of the tanks.
If the leak(s) are between the skin and the flange, is there a good (and simple) way to correct the problem?
Cheers
Les
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461241#461241
|
====================================
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
====================================
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
====================================
b Site -
     -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
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Lenny Iszak
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:14 am Post subject: Re: I Hate Leaking Fuel Tanks! |
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Whoaaa, hold that shop-vac! "a shop-vac loosely in the fuel filler" with fuel or just fuel vapors in the tank is a surefire way to blow yourself up... as the vapors travel right through the motor that sparks at the brushes.
Lenny
| flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com wrote: | Great thoughts Bill! The more options there are, the better the choice that fits the circumstances. The vacuum method allows you to treat many leaks simultaneously without damage if you're careful. A really slow leak will take longer to see results.
Actually, a shop-vac loosely in the fuel filler generates enough 'suction' to get the liquid through the hole. If the drop(s) don't disappear loosely fit a rag around the hose. The drawback is the noise.
A Mighty Vac hooked up to the vent line will work also. You'll run out of gripping power before you pull enough vacuum to deform the tank. Either way, if your method of choice starts to deform the tank .... quit! That's too much and unnecessary. Work slowly and carefully.
Linn
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kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:45 am Post subject: Re: I Hate Leaking Fuel Tanks! |
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Lenny
You are a spoil sport. I was looking forward to a big bang event!
Actually, if I was going to pull a vacuum, I would use a shop vac attached to my compressor. On of those small compressed air vacs used when building.
I said "if" because I wouldn't try to pull a vacuum as too much negative pressure would quickly collapse the tank - it wouldn't take much. I once say a pic of a heavy walled refinery vessel that collapsed after a hydro test. The water was allowed to drain but the relief valve didn't open so the draining water caused a partial vacuum. Simple pressure physics took over and the vessel was toast.
Now what I would be interested in is how to "inject" locktite between the inboard skin and flange if that is what is leaking (rather than the flange rivets). Perhaps RTVing a syringe on to the leaking portion of the seam.
Cheers
Les
[quote="Lenny Iszak"]Whoaaa, hold that shop-vac! "a shop-vac loosely in the fuel filler" with fuel or just fuel vapors in the tank is a surefire way to blow yourself up... as the vapors travel right through the motor that sparks at the brushes.
Lenny
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flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:46 am Post subject: I Hate Leaking Fuel Tanks! |
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First off, the blowing up shop vac just doesn't happen (myth busters
really tried hard to make it happen .... they loved blowing things up!)
... and I give the RV-10 crowd enough intelligence to not work on a
tank with fuel in it. However, if you don't feel safe using the shop vac
then do things like Bill pointed out. YMMV!!!
IMHO,
Linn
On 10/15/2016 12:14 PM, Lenny Iszak wrote:
| Quote: |
Whoaaa, hold that shop-vac! "a shop-vac loosely in the fuel filler" with fuel or just fuel vapors in the tank is a surefire way to blow yourself up... as the vapors travel right through the motor that sparks at the brushes.
Lenny
flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com wrote:
> Great thoughts Bill! The more options there are, the better the choice that fits the circumstances. The vacuum method allows you to treat many leaks simultaneously without damage if you're careful. A really slow leak will take longer to see results.
>
> Actually, a shop-vac loosely in the fuel filler generates enough 'suction' to get the liquid through the hole. If the drop(s) don't disappear loosely fit a rag around the hose. The drawback is the noise.
> A Mighty Vac hooked up to the vent line will work also. You'll run out of gripping power before you pull enough vacuum to deform the tank. Either way, if your method of choice starts to deform the tank .... quit! That's too much and unnecessary. Work slowly and carefully.
> Linn
>
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461305#461305
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2871
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:51 am Post subject: I Hate Leaking Fuel Tanks! |
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Yeah, but, at least the explosion will be in the shop vac, so it
probably wouldn't destroy the plane unless the flames also got near the
filler opening and caused them to ignite too. So it would only cause
serious injury or death, but wouldn't total the airplane necessarily.
tongue in cheek of course.
Tim
On 10/15/2016 11:14 AM, Lenny Iszak wrote:
| Quote: |
Whoaaa, hold that shop-vac! "a shop-vac loosely in the fuel filler" with fuel or just fuel vapors in the tank is a surefire way to blow yourself up... as the vapors travel right through the motor that sparks at the brushes.
Lenny
flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com wrote:
> Great thoughts Bill! The more options there are, the better the choice that fits the circumstances. The vacuum method allows you to treat many leaks simultaneously without damage if you're careful. A really slow leak will take longer to see results.
>
> Actually, a shop-vac loosely in the fuel filler generates enough 'suction' to get the liquid through the hole. If the drop(s) don't disappear loosely fit a rag around the hose. The drawback is the noise.
> A Mighty Vac hooked up to the vent line will work also. You'll run out of gripping power before you pull enough vacuum to deform the tank. Either way, if your method of choice starts to deform the tank .... quit! That's too much and unnecessary. Work slowly and carefully.
> Linn
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