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norman.decou(at)ucdsb.on.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject: plane Reply with quote

I am currently attaching my fuselage sides. I have checked and rechecked my dimensions. As the pictures show, I have an irregular bow inward at the 2nd station from the back.

I am using the long fuselage plans.
The dimensions I am using measured from the tail are
1st strut 19.125" from the end of the tail 7 " across
2nd strut 41.5" from the end of the tail 11" across
3rd strut 68.375" from the end of the tail 17" across
4th strut 95.5`` from the end of the tail 22`` across
Plan dimensions for the sides are 19.375-------19.375 total
22.500-------41.875 total
27.000-------68.875 total
27.250-------96.125 total
I recognize that there are slight differences between my dimensions and the fuselage side dimensions. I believe that some of this is due to the curve at the tail effectively reducing the length when the sides.



I just need to know if someone can identify my error.


I don`t want to arbitrarily change plan dimensions but I do not believe this bow is intended to be there.


Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated,
Norm

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nlebens(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:58 pm    Post subject: plane Reply with quote

Hi Norm,

I used the plans width dimensions from the firewall to the pilot's seat back.  Aft of there, I do recall some discrepancies between the plans and the natural bow my fuse wanted to take, as I pulled the tail together.  Here is what I've measured on my fuse:
Distance forward from tail post and width taken at outside edges of longerons:
19-3/8"   5-5/8"
41-7/8"   11-1/8"
68-7/8"   17-5/16"
94-1/8"   21-3/4"  
Note that I have angled the top of the pilot's seat back 2" beyond the plans, so this probably had some small effect on the aft stations.  I suggest fixing the 68-7/8" station width where you want it and then pull the tail together.  Cut the rest to fit.
Regards,
Ned


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nx15kv(at)yahoo.com
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:15 pm    Post subject: plane Reply with quote

It has been a while since I build mine.
but I do recall that I just made the tail piece look right.
Just made it a natural bow to the tail post, without trying to scale to the plans.
And avoiding any reverse bow.
Hans
NX15KV, Waller, TX
From: "Decou, Norman" <norman.decou(at)ucdsb.on.ca>
To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" <pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, January 2, 2017 1:42 PM
Subject: Fw: plane




I am currently attaching my fuselage sides. I have checked and rechecked my dimensions. As the pictures show, I have an irregular bow inward at the 2nd station from the back.

I am using the long fuselage plans.
The dimensions I am using measured from the tail are
1st strut 19.125" from the end of the tail 7 " across
2nd strut 41.5" from the end of the tail 11" across
3rd strut 68.375" from the end of the tail 17" across
4th strut 95.5`` from the end of the tail 22`` across
Plan dimensions for the sides are 19.375-------19.375 total
22.500-------41.875 total
27.000-------68.875 total
27.250-------96.125 total
I recognize that there are slight differences between my dimensions and the fuselage side dimensions. I believe that some of this is due to the curve at the tail effectively reducing the length when the sides.



I just need to know if someone can identify my error.


I don`t want to arbitrarily change plan dimensions but I do not believe this bow is intended to be there.


Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated,
Norm


III


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normdecou(at)aol.com
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject: plane Reply with quote

Thanks Ned,
I thought the natural bend would be okay.
I wanted to make sure that altering the bend would not reduce the strength of the tail.
Thanks again
Norm




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Dan Helsper



Joined: 28 Dec 2016
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:27 pm    Post subject: plane Reply with quote

Hi Ned,

I don't normally advocate many deviations from the plans, but my aching back and legs (from two trips up and back from Brodhead) concur with your decision to lean the seat back.
Dan Helsper
Loensloe Airfield
Puryear, TN

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Dan Helsper
Loensloe Airfield
Puryear, TN
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normdecou(at)aol.com
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:39 pm    Post subject: plane Reply with quote

Hi Tom,
I spent part of the day today fitting the tail.
Thank for the advice,
Norm



Quote:
Tom Kreiner





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charlescampbell1924(at)gm
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:07 am    Post subject: plane Reply with quote

Norman, as tkreiner said, your tail post looks too wide.  The tail post needs to be 1 inch wide, outside to outside.  The way I did it was to put in cross pieces back to station 3 (from the front (keeping every thing square).  Then I pulled the two tail posts together and sawed down the center until the tail post was 1-inch wide.  Then I just measured at each station and cut the cross pieces as wide as they need to be.  I didn't pay any attention to the dimensions of the cross pieces given on the plans because the dimensions given are for the short fuselage.  (My plans don't have a top view (giving dimensions) of the fuselage frame.  I don't believe the dimensions given for the short fuselage will work for the long fuselage.)  Chuck

On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 2:42 PM, Decou, Norman <norman.decou(at)ucdsb.on.ca (norman.decou(at)ucdsb.on.ca)> wrote:
Quote:



I am currently attaching my fuselage sides.  I have checked and rechecked my dimensions.  As the pictures show, I have an irregular bow inward at the 2nd station from the back. 

I am using the long fuselage plans.
The dimensions I am using measured from the tail are
1st strut 19.125" from the end of the  tail 7 " across
2nd strut 41.5" from the end of the tail 11" across
3rd strut 68.375" from the end of the tail 17" across
4th strut 95.5`` from the end of the tail 22`` across
Plan dimensions for the sides are 19.375-------19.375 total
                                                            22.500-------41.875 total
                                                            27.000-------68.875 total
                                                            27.250-------96.125 total
I recognize that there are slight differences between my dimensions and the fuselage side dimensions.  I believe that some of this is due to the curve at the tail effectively reducing the length when the sides. 



I just need to know if someone can identify my error.


I don`t want to arbitrarily change plan dimensions but I do not believe this bow is intended to be there.


Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated,
Norm

III







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aviken



Joined: 27 Sep 2013
Posts: 127
Location: arkansas

PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: plane Reply with quote

I haven't checked your measurements against my plans, I built the 1933 plans plane and it all seemed to work out. I would not want to have the reverse bow, I believe it will add un-needed stress to those joints. Surely there is a mistake somewhere in the dimensions . I believe the most important area would be the tail-post and the seat back station. I wouldn't want to wander too far at those points, but I don't believe a variation of width between those two to keep a smooth bow would hurt.
That being said, I have found everytime I have strayed from the plans, somewhere down the line I regretted it.
Just my opinion and it isn't worth much ha ha.


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normdecou(at)aol.com
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:23 am    Post subject: plane Reply with quote

Hi aviken,
The reverse bow concerned me too but like you I do not like to stray fro established plans (I usually pay the price down the road).
Thanks for your thoughts,
Norm





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tkreiner



Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 185
Location: Spring, TX

PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: plane Reply with quote

Norm,

Don't know how I deleted my original reply, but from your 4th photo, it appears the tailpost is too wide. As others have chimed in, sawing it to the 1" thickness would be appropriate...

Reverse bow, however, is another issue, and I concur; the bow needs to be eliminated entirely, as others have already stated. Whatever length of crosspieces is needed to achieve this should probably be notated on your set of plans.

One item I just noted is that you have TWO double bows, as the firewall end appears to be bowed together, which would mean the fuse is wider at the cockpits... Have you widened the cockpit, maybe? Or made it 24" inside, rather than outside? Something appears amiss here....

Best of luck with your build & Happy New Year!


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Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 714

PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: plane Reply with quote

This falls squarely in the "things that make you go hmmm...."zone.

Seemed to happen a lot building model airplanes.

As much as anything, different pieces of wood bend differently and will contribute. So, two choices as I see it. Just live with the result, I do not believe it introduces any detrimental stress. That sort of stress lives in all wing ribs, and in the bend at the front of the fuse. Second, just cut to fit and ensure a nice smooth curve. In this case, you will not be introducing enough change to cascade into a problem later. Some things do, and right quick, but not there.

When I rebuilt my fuse, main gear and fittings, and replaced the wing struts, I was pretty worried about inadvertent change to the rigging of the plane. But, it had to be done, figured I'd just do the best I could, and test fly very conservatively and work from there. Turns out I could tell no difference. This plane lives right smack dab in the middle of the forgiving zone.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:43 am    Post subject: plane Reply with quote

Hi Chuck,
Hopefully, by the end of the day today I will have the tail down to 1 inch. Thanks or the advice. I know from building other assemblies that if the primary structure is not square everything that follows is a nightmare.
Thanks again,
Norm




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