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Softness in wing?

 
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bakerocb



Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 720
Location: FAIRFAX VA

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 6:27 am    Post subject: Softness in wing? Reply with quote

From: Owen Baker
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:42 AM
To: pastormac(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Softness in wing?

5/16/2017

Hello Stephen, I would not attempt to analyze the problem without actually
seeing it personally, but it could be a very serious problem requiring some
expert composite aircraft repair training to help solve.

Apparently you meant wing ribs rather than spars in your description of the
location of the soft spot with regard to how far it is from the fuselage.
Just as important is where is it located fore and aft. Is it over the
portion of the wing that contains fuel? If it is over the fuel tank you
could find yourself stepping into fuel someday.

I recommend that you ask for help from the KIS Matronics group by forwarding
this email to the group.

Also see here:

http://www.mansbergeraircraft.com/

http://www.aviationpros.com/article/11105657/the-a-b-cs-of-aircraft-composite-repair

http://www.deltatechops.com/mro-capabilities/view/category/composite-maintenance

OC

===========================================

From: pastormac(at)comcast.net
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:24 PM
To: Owen Baker
Subject: Softness in wing?

Hi Owen,
Trust all is well? I had a question. Where I step on the Wong to enter the
plane a soft spot has developed. I have a strip to protect the paint and
thought about removing it and drilling a small hole and try and eject some
epoxy in the area. Any thoughts? The area seems to be between the two
spars. The one close to the door and the next spar. It's about a 6 by 6 area
or a little larger.

To our success,
Stephen McIntosh


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Keith.Miller(at)esa.int
Guest





PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 7:12 am    Post subject: Softness in wing? Reply with quote

Can we determine "how soft is soft ",
is it possible to measure how much weight needs to be applied to start the
surface deflection , a matter of a couple of pounds or many more.

Also can you measure the distances from the leading edge backwards and
distance outboard from the fuselage, this will determine if its over fuel or
not and if there is a wing rib anywhere close to it .
Do you step on the wing from the front or the back ?

Keith

From: "Owen Baker " <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
To: "KIS-LIST MATRONICS" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: 05/16/2017 04:28 PM
Subject: Fw: Softness in wing?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com


From: Owen Baker
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:42 AM
To: pastormac(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Softness in wing?

5/16/2017

Hello Stephen, I would not attempt to analyze the problem without actually
seeing it personally, but it could be a very serious problem requiring some
expert composite aircraft repair training to help solve.

Apparently you meant wing ribs rather than spars in your description of the
location of the soft spot with regard to how far it is from the fuselage.
Just as important is where is it located fore and aft. Is it over the
portion of the wing that contains fuel? If it is over the fuel tank you
could find yourself stepping into fuel someday.

I recommend that you ask for help from the KIS Matronics group by forwarding
this email to the group.

Also see here:

http://www.mansbergeraircraft.com/

http://www.aviationpros.com/article/11105657/the-a-b-cs-of-aircraft-composite-repair
http://www.deltatechops.com/mro-capabilities/view/category/composite-maintenance
OC

===========================================

From: pastormac(at)comcast.net
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:24 PM
To: Owen Baker
Subject: Softness in wing?

Hi Owen,
Trust all is well? I had a question. Where I step on the Wong to enter the
plane a soft spot has developed. I have a strip to protect the paint and
thought about removing it and drilling a small hole and try and eject some
epoxy in the area. Any thoughts? The area seems to be between the two
spars. The one close to the door and the next spar. It's about a 6 by 6 area
or a little larger.

To our success,
Stephen McIntosh

This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or
addressees only.
The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole
or in part) of its
content is not permitted.
If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it
from your system.
Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.

Please consider the environment before printing this email.
This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only.
The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its
content is not permitted.
If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system.
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Please consider the environment before printing this email.


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pastormac62



Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 47
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:19 am    Post subject: Softness in wing? Reply with quote

Not near fuel cell. I step on the wing from the back of the wing over the flaps which I have in down position. You can push down on the spot with little pressure before it starts to give.

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

Quote:
On May 16, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:




From: Owen Baker
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:42 AM
To: pastormac(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Softness in wing?

5/16/2017

Hello Stephen, I would not attempt to analyze the problem without actually
seeing it personally, but it could be a very serious problem requiring some
expert composite aircraft repair training to help solve.

Apparently you meant wing ribs rather than spars in your description of the
location of the soft spot with regard to how far it is from the fuselage.
Just as important is where is it located fore and aft. Is it over the
portion of the wing that contains fuel? If it is over the fuel tank you
could find yourself stepping into fuel someday.

I recommend that you ask for help from the KIS Matronics group by forwarding
this email to the group.

Also see here:

http://www.mansbergeraircraft.com/

http://www.aviationpros.com/article/11105657/the-a-b-cs-of-aircraft-composite-repair

http://www.deltatechops.com/mro-capabilities/view/category/composite-maintenance

OC

===========================================

From: pastormac(at)comcast.net
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:24 PM
To: Owen Baker
Subject: Softness in wing?

Hi Owen,
Trust all is well? I had a question. Where I step on the Wong to enter the
plane a soft spot has developed. I have a strip to protect the paint and
thought about removing it and drilling a small hole and try and eject some
epoxy in the area. Any thoughts? The area seems to be between the two
spars. The one close to the door and the next spar. It's about a 6 by 6 area
or a little larger.

To our success,
Stephen McIntosh





- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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View user's profile Send private message
Keith.Miller(at)esa.int
Guest





PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:29 am    Post subject: Softness in wing? Reply with quote

The wing in that area where you step on , has no wing ribs supporting it
from inside , the closest wing ribs at BL 24 and BL 45 ( 24 Inches from the
centre and 45" from the centre line ), which in my opinion is a design
fault , and i wonder why it was not taken into account during the initial
design, knowing that high pressure loads are going to be applied when
climbing in and out of the fuselage. Its possible to also enter from the
front of the wing and there is a rib at BL 32 which adds a bit of support.
I find entering from the front easier

The good news is that it would be relatively easy to if any damage is on
the inner part of the skin with one of those cheap flexible inspection
camera, by drilling a small hole on the underside . Assuming there is no
damage then I would as suggested drilling a series if small holes in the
upper surface and inject some expoxy / micro mix to effectively relace the
foam core with a more solid replacement. since you have wing walk paint it
shouldnt even be noticeable wit a bit of touching up .

Hope that makes sense.


From: pastormac(at)comcast.net
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: 05/16/2017 06:20 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Softness in wing?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com



Not near fuel cell. I step on the wing from the back of the wing over the
flaps which I have in down position. You can push down on the spot with
little pressure before it starts to give.

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

Quote:
On May 16, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:


From: Owen Baker
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:42 AM
To: pastormac(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Softness in wing?

5/16/2017

Hello Stephen, I would not attempt to analyze the problem without actually
seeing it personally, but it could be a very serious problem requiring some
expert composite aircraft repair training to help solve.

Apparently you meant wing ribs rather than spars in your description of the
location of the soft spot with regard to how far it is from the fuselage.
Just as important is where is it located fore and aft. Is it over the
portion of the wing that contains fuel? If it is over the fuel tank you
could find yourself stepping into fuel someday.

I recommend that you ask for help from the KIS Matronics group by
forwarding

Quote:
this email to the group.

Also see here:

http://www.mansbergeraircraft.com/
http://www.aviationpros.com/article/11105657/the-a-b-cs-of-aircraft-composite-repair


Quote:


http://www.deltatechops.com/mro-capabilities/view/category/composite-maintenance


Quote:

OC

===========================================

From: pastormac(at)comcast.net
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:24 PM
To: Owen Baker
Subject: Softness in wing?

Hi Owen,
Trust all is well? I had a question. Where I step on the Wong to enter the
plane a soft spot has developed. I have a strip to protect the paint and
thought about removing it and drilling a small hole and try and eject some
epoxy in the area. Any thoughts? The area seems to be between the two
spars. The one close to the door and the next spar. It's about a 6 by 6
area

Quote:
or a little larger.

To our success,
Stephen McIntosh



This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or
addressees only.
The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole
or in part) of its
content is not permitted.
If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it
from your system.
Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.

Please consider the environment before printing this email.
This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only.
The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its
content is not permitted.
If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system.
Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.

Please consider the environment before printing this email.


- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Back to top
pastormac62



Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 47
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 2:45 am    Post subject: Softness in wing? Reply with quote

Thanks Keith. Hoping it's not a fuel cell leak. I have a soft spot on towards the front where I do not step.

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

Quote:
On May 17, 2017, at 4:28 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:



The wing in that area where you step on , has no wing ribs supporting it
from inside , the closest wing ribs at BL 24 and BL 45 ( 24 Inches from the
centre and 45" from the centre line ), which in my opinion is a design
fault , and i wonder why it was not taken into account during the initial
design, knowing that high pressure loads are going to be applied when
climbing in and out of the fuselage. Its possible to also enter from the
front of the wing and there is a rib at BL 32 which adds a bit of support.
I find entering from the front easier

The good news is that it would be relatively easy to if any damage is on
the inner part of the skin with one of those cheap flexible inspection
camera, by drilling a small hole on the underside . Assuming there is no
damage then I would as suggested drilling a series if small holes in the
upper surface and inject some expoxy / micro mix to effectively relace the
foam core with a more solid replacement. since you have wing walk paint it
shouldnt even be noticeable wit a bit of touching up .

Hope that makes sense.




From: pastormac(at)comcast.net
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: 05/16/2017 06:20 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Softness in wing?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com





Not near fuel cell. I step on the wing from the back of the wing over the
flaps which I have in down position. You can push down on the spot with
little pressure before it starts to give.

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

> On May 16, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> From: Owen Baker
> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:42 AM
> To: pastormac(at)comcast.net
> Subject: Re: Softness in wing?
>
> 5/16/2017
>
> Hello Stephen, I would not attempt to analyze the problem without actually
> seeing it personally, but it could be a very serious problem requiring some
> expert composite aircraft repair training to help solve.
>
> Apparently you meant wing ribs rather than spars in your description of the
> location of the soft spot with regard to how far it is from the fuselage.
> Just as important is where is it located fore and aft. Is it over the
> portion of the wing that contains fuel? If it is over the fuel tank you
> could find yourself stepping into fuel someday.
>
> I recommend that you ask for help from the KIS Matronics group by
forwarding
> this email to the group.
>
> Also see here:
>
> http://www.mansbergeraircraft.com/
>
>
http://www.aviationpros.com/article/11105657/the-a-b-cs-of-aircraft-composite-repair

>
>
http://www.deltatechops.com/mro-capabilities/view/category/composite-maintenance

>
> OC
>
> ===========================================
>
> From: pastormac(at)comcast.net
> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:24 PM
> To: Owen Baker
> Subject: Softness in wing?
>
> Hi Owen,
> Trust all is well? I had a question. Where I step on the Wong to enter the
> plane a soft spot has developed. I have a strip to protect the paint and
> thought about removing it and drilling a small hole and try and eject some
> epoxy in the area. Any thoughts? The area seems to be between the two
> spars. The one close to the door and the next spar. It's about a 6 by 6
area
> or a little larger.
>
> To our success,
> Stephen McIntosh
>
>
>






This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or
addressees only.
The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole
or in part) of its
content is not permitted.
If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it
from your system.
Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.

Please consider the environment before printing this email.






This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only.
The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its
content is not permitted.
If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system.
Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.

Please consider the environment before printing this email.







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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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View user's profile Send private message
Keith.Miller(at)esa.int
Guest





PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 4:04 am    Post subject: Softness in wing? Reply with quote

If the soft spots are more or less inline with each other it could be that
the foam core has started to disintegrate for some reason, most likely fuel
seeping backwards . drilling a small hole ( 1/8") in the top surface aft of
the wing spar over the soft spot will confirm if its fuel that is causing
the foam to disintegrate or something else , but at least you will know and
we can start think about how to fix it . ( any sniff of fuel at this point
will confirm it) . Doing nothing, if it is fuel, will only make the problem
bigger over time.
From: pastormac(at)comcast.net
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: 05/17/2017 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Softness in wing?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com



Thanks Keith. Hoping it's not a fuel cell leak. I have a soft spot on towards
the front where I do not step.

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

Quote:
On May 17, 2017, at 4:28 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:



The wing in that area where you step on , has no wing ribs supporting it
from inside , the closest wing ribs at BL 24 and BL 45 ( 24 Inches from the
centre and 45" from the centre line ), which in my opinion is a design
fault , and i wonder why it was not taken into account during the initial
design, knowing that high pressure loads are going to be applied when
climbing in and out of the fuselage. Its possible to also enter from
the

Quote:
front of the wing and there is a rib at BL 32 which adds a bit of
support.

Quote:
I find entering from the front easier

The good news is that it would be relatively easy to if any damage is on
the inner part of the skin with one of those cheap flexible inspection
camera, by drilling a small hole on the underside . Assuming there is no
damage then I would as suggested drilling a series if small holes in the
upper surface and inject some expoxy / micro mix to effectively relace
the

Quote:
foam core with a more solid replacement. since you have wing walk paint
it

Quote:
shouldnt even be noticeable wit a bit of touching up .

Hope that makes sense.


From: pastormac(at)comcast.net
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: 05/16/2017 06:20 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Softness in wing?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com



Not near fuel cell. I step on the wing from the back of the wing over the
flaps which I have in down position. You can push down on the spot with
little pressure before it starts to give.

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

> On May 16, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: Owen Baker
> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:42 AM
> To: pastormac(at)comcast.net
> Subject: Re: Softness in wing?
>
> 5/16/2017
>
> Hello Stephen, I would not attempt to analyze the problem without actually
> seeing it personally, but it could be a very serious problem requiring
some

Quote:
> expert composite aircraft repair training to help solve.
>
> Apparently you meant wing ribs rather than spars in your description of
the

Quote:
> location of the soft spot with regard to how far it is from the fuselage.
> Just as important is where is it located fore and aft. Is it over the
> portion of the wing that contains fuel? If it is over the fuel tank you
> could find yourself stepping into fuel someday.
>
> I recommend that you ask for help from the KIS Matronics group by
forwarding
> this email to the group.
>
> Also see here:
>
> http://www.mansbergeraircraft.com/

http://www.aviationpros.com/article/11105657/the-a-b-cs-of-aircraft-composite-repair


Quote:


http://www.deltatechops.com/mro-capabilities/view/category/composite-maintenance


Quote:

>
> OC
>
> ===========================================
>
> From: pastormac(at)comcast.net
> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:24 PM
> To: Owen Baker
> Subject: Softness in wing?
>
> Hi Owen,
> Trust all is well? I had a question. Where I step on the Wong to enter
the

Quote:
> plane a soft spot has developed. I have a strip to protect the paint and
> thought about removing it and drilling a small hole and try and eject some
> epoxy in the area. Any thoughts? The area seems to be between the two
> spars. The one close to the door and the next spar. It's about a 6 by 6
area
> or a little larger.
>
> To our success,
> Stephen McIntosh
>
This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee
or

Quote:
addressees only.
The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole
or in part) of its
content is not permitted.
If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete
it

Quote:
from your system.
Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the
sender.

Quote:

Please consider the environment before printing this email.
This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee
or addressees only.

Quote:
The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole
or in part) of its

Quote:
content is not permitted.
If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete
it from your system.

Quote:
Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the
sender.

Quote:

Please consider the environment before printing this email.


This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only.
The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its
content is not permitted.
If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system.
Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.

Please consider the environment before printing this email.


- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Back to top
pastormac62



Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 47
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject: Softness in wing? Reply with quote

Thanks Keith. Going to drill the small hole tomorrow.

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

Quote:
On May 17, 2017, at 8:04 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:



If the soft spots are more or less inline with each other it could be that
the foam core has started to disintegrate for some reason, most likely fuel
seeping backwards . drilling a small hole ( 1/8") in the top surface aft of
the wing spar over the soft spot will confirm if its fuel that is causing
the foam to disintegrate or something else , but at least you will know and
we can start think about how to fix it . ( any sniff of fuel at this point
will confirm it) . Doing nothing, if it is fuel, will only make the problem
bigger over time.


From: pastormac(at)comcast.net
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: 05/17/2017 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Softness in wing?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com





Thanks Keith. Hoping it's not a fuel cell leak. I have a soft spot on towards
the front where I do not step.

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

> On May 17, 2017, at 4:28 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:
>
>
>
> The wing in that area where you step on , has no wing ribs supporting it
> from inside , the closest wing ribs at BL 24 and BL 45 ( 24 Inches from the
> centre and 45" from the centre line ), which in my opinion is a design
> fault , and i wonder why it was not taken into account during the initial
> design, knowing that high pressure loads are going to be applied when
> climbing in and out of the fuselage. Its possible to also enter from
the
> front of the wing and there is a rib at BL 32 which adds a bit of
support.
> I find entering from the front easier
>
> The good news is that it would be relatively easy to if any damage is on
> the inner part of the skin with one of those cheap flexible inspection
> camera, by drilling a small hole on the underside . Assuming there is no
> damage then I would as suggested drilling a series if small holes in the
> upper surface and inject some expoxy / micro mix to effectively relace
the
> foam core with a more solid replacement. since you have wing walk paint
it
> shouldnt even be noticeable wit a bit of touching up .
>
> Hope that makes sense.
>
>
>
>
> From: pastormac(at)comcast.net
> To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: 05/16/2017 06:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: Softness in wing?
> Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Not near fuel cell. I step on the wing from the back of the wing over the
> flaps which I have in down position. You can push down on the spot with
> little pressure before it starts to give.
>
> To our success, Stephen McIntosh
>
>> On May 16, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Owen Baker
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:42 AM
>> To: pastormac(at)comcast.net
>> Subject: Re: Softness in wing?
>>
>> 5/16/2017
>>
>> Hello Stephen, I would not attempt to analyze the problem without actually
>> seeing it personally, but it could be a very serious problem requiring
some
>> expert composite aircraft repair training to help solve.
>>
>> Apparently you meant wing ribs rather than spars in your description of
the
>> location of the soft spot with regard to how far it is from the fuselage.
>> Just as important is where is it located fore and aft. Is it over the
>> portion of the wing that contains fuel? If it is over the fuel tank you
>> could find yourself stepping into fuel someday.
>>
>> I recommend that you ask for help from the KIS Matronics group by
> forwarding
>> this email to the group.
>>
>> Also see here:
>>
>> http://www.mansbergeraircraft.com/
>>
>>
>
http://www.aviationpros.com/article/11105657/the-a-b-cs-of-aircraft-composite-repair

>
>>
>>
>
http://www.deltatechops.com/mro-capabilities/view/category/composite-maintenance

>
>>
>> OC
>>
>> ===========================================
>>
>> From: pastormac(at)comcast.net
>> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:24 PM
>> To: Owen Baker
>> Subject: Softness in wing?
>>
>> Hi Owen,
>> Trust all is well? I had a question. Where I step on the Wong to enter
the
>> plane a soft spot has developed. I have a strip to protect the paint and
>> thought about removing it and drilling a small hole and try and eject some
>> epoxy in the area. Any thoughts? The area seems to be between the two
>> spars. The one close to the door and the next spar. It's about a 6 by 6
> area
>> or a little larger.
>>
>> To our success,
>> Stephen McIntosh
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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pastormac62



Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 47
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 5:38 am    Post subject: Softness in wing? Reply with quote

Hi Guys,
I drilled a small hole over the softest area right over the fuel tank and there was no smell of fuel!!! I was going to order some west systems epoxy, and drill several small holes to stabilize the area. I need one that would flow well and bond. Any suggestions would be appreciated!!

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

Quote:
On May 17, 2017, at 8:34 PM, pastormac(at)comcast.net wrote:



Thanks Keith. Going to drill the small hole tomorrow.

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

> On May 17, 2017, at 8:04 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:
>
>
>
> If the soft spots are more or less inline with each other it could be that
> the foam core has started to disintegrate for some reason, most likely fuel
> seeping backwards . drilling a small hole ( 1/8") in the top surface aft of
> the wing spar over the soft spot will confirm if its fuel that is causing
> the foam to disintegrate or something else , but at least you will know and
> we can start think about how to fix it . ( any sniff of fuel at this point
> will confirm it) . Doing nothing, if it is fuel, will only make the problem
> bigger over time.
>
>
> From: pastormac(at)comcast.net
> To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: 05/17/2017 12:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: Softness in wing?
> Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks Keith. Hoping it's not a fuel cell leak. I have a soft spot on towards
> the front where I do not step.
>
> To our success, Stephen McIntosh
>
>> On May 17, 2017, at 4:28 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> The wing in that area where you step on , has no wing ribs supporting it


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Keith.Miller(at)esa.int
Guest





PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:09 am    Post subject: Softness in wing? Reply with quote

That is good news, maybe the foam has been damaged ( crushed) just where
people have been stepping on and off the wing .

Cant comment on any glues , its been far too long since i had any experience
with any , and the original epoxy ( HEXEL 2427 / Eploite 2427/ also known
as SAF-T-POXY), no longer exists , but maybe a call to West systems will
find something equivalent, but i doubt its necessary to find a certified
avaition glue since your just filling a gap , not adding any structural
strength. The HEXEL 2427 flowed nicely - probably too easy when warm. A few
micro-balloons would thicken it up for your application and not add too much
weight. I would suggest forcing the glue in with a syringe.

let me know how you get on

From: pastormac(at)comcast.net
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: 05/18/2017 03:39 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Softness in wing?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com



Hi Guys,
I drilled a small hole over the softest area right over the fuel tank and
there was no smell of fuel!!! I was going to order some west systems epoxy,
and drill several small holes to stabilize the area. I need one that would
flow well and bond. Any suggestions would be appreciated!!

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

Quote:
On May 17, 2017, at 8:34 PM, pastormac(at)comcast.net wrote:



Thanks Keith. Going to drill the small hole tomorrow.

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

> On May 17, 2017, at 8:04 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:
>
>
>
> If the soft spots are more or less inline with each other it could be
that

Quote:
> the foam core has started to disintegrate for some reason, most likely
fuel

Quote:
> seeping backwards . drilling a small hole ( 1/8") in the top surface aft
of

Quote:
> the wing spar over the soft spot will confirm if its fuel that is causing
> the foam to disintegrate or something else , but at least you will know
and

Quote:
> we can start think about how to fix it . ( any sniff of fuel at this
point

Quote:
> will confirm it) . Doing nothing, if it is fuel, will only make the
problem

Quote:
> bigger over time.
> From: pastormac(at)comcast.net
> To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: 05/17/2017 12:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: Softness in wing?
> Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> Thanks Keith. Hoping it's not a fuel cell leak. I have a soft spot on
towards

Quote:
> the front where I do not step.
>
> To our success, Stephen McIntosh
>
>> On May 17, 2017, at 4:28 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> The wing in that area where you step on , has no wing ribs supporting
it


This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only.
The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its
content is not permitted.
If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system.
Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.

Please consider the environment before printing this email.


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Robert Reed



Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 217
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:52 am    Post subject: Softness in wing? Reply with quote

Steven,
My approach and it's worth only what you are paying for it.....
1. Use the tap test to map out the extent of the void under the skin. Your comments indicate that it is a bit larger than you first indicated and you will need to try and identify the affected area as best possible. The tap test (tap on skin and listen for difference in sound.) should give you a good measure of the size of the void.
2. Drill injection holes that will allow you to ensure access to the extent of the open areas. They should be close enough that you can cover the area between them without having to force the mix into it. (Check repeatedly for any signs of FUEL)
3. Use an epoxy micro bead mix that will not run out but can still be fluid enough for injection with a syringe. Syringes are available from multiple sources with plastic tips. You may need several. You don't want to use just epoxy because it is too fluid and will run to and settle in any low spots without filling the voids. It's also much heavier than the micro mix.  I don't know how to describe the micro mix except to say thin enough to inject but thick enough to not have the epoxy run.
4. Be careful to provide openings for the micro mix to ooze out rather than bulge the skin out. After application and before the mix has set, check the area and level the skin if any bulges are detected. Fill it but don't over fill it.
5. After cure, do the tap test again to make sure you have it all filled. (The filled areas will sound different from the void and from the foam areas.)  Repeat if necessary.
6. Clean up and fill any small holes remaining and touch up paint.


PS: I have a couple of containers of micro beads left over that I could send you one if needed. (Coffee can size)
Hope this helps,
Bob Reed
From: "pastormac(at)comcast.net" <pastormac(at)comcast.net>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Softness in wing?


--> KIS-List message posted by: pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net)

Hi Guys,

I drilled a small hole over the softest area right over the fuel tank and there was no smell of fuel!!! I was going to order some west systems epoxy, and drill several small holes to stabilize the area. I need one that would flow well and bond. Any suggestions would be appreciated!!

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

Quote:
On May 17, 2017, at 8:34 PM, pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net) wrote:

Quote:


Quote:
--> KIS-List message posted by: pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net)

Quote:


Quote:
Thanks Keith. Going to drill the small hole tomorrow.

Quote:


Quote:
To our success, Stephen McIntosh

Quote:


Quote:
> On May 17, 2017, at 8:04 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int (Keith.Miller(at)esa.int) wrote:

Quote:
>

Quote:
> --> KIS-List message posted by: Keith.Miller(at)esa.int (Keith.Miller(at)esa.int)

Quote:
>

Quote:
> If the soft spots are more or less inline with each other it could be that

Quote:
> the foam core has started to disintegrate for some reason, most likely fuel

Quote:
> seeping backwards . drilling a small hole ( 1/8") in the top surface aft of

Quote:
> the wing spar over the soft spot will confirm if its fuel that is causing

Quote:
> the foam to disintegrate or something else , but at least you will know and

Quote:
> we can start think about how to fix it . ( any sniff of fuel at this point

Quote:
> will confirm it) . Doing nothing, if it is fuel, will only make the problem

Quote:
> bigger over time.

Quote:
>

Quote:
>

Quote:
> From: pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net)

Quote:
> To:   kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

Quote:
> Date: 05/17/2017 12:46 PM

Quote:
> Subject: Re: Fw: Softness in wing?

Quote:
> Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)

Quote:
>

Quote:
>

Quote:
>

Quote:
> --> KIS-List message posted by: pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net)

Quote:
>

Quote:
> Thanks Keith. Hoping it's not a fuel cell leak. I have a soft spot on towards

Quote:
> the front where I do not step.

Quote:
>

Quote:
> To our success, Stephen McIntosh

Quote:
>

Quote:
>> On May 17, 2017, at 4:28 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int (Keith.Miller(at)esa.int) wrote:

Quote:
>>

Quote:
>> --> KIS-List message posted by: Keith.Miller(at)esa.int (Keith.Miller(at)esa.int)

Quote:
>>

Quote:
>> The wing  in that area where you step on , has no wing ribs supporting it



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