Matronics Email Lists Forum Index Matronics Email Lists
BBS Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
 
 Get Email Distribution Too!Get Email Distribution Too!    FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

tail hinges

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Pietenpol-List
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
nightmare



Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 427

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:54 pm    Post subject: tail hinges Reply with quote

Hey guys. Fabricating tail feather hinges as per plans. Those who have also done so, couple of questions.
1. Clevis pin / cotter pin arrangement or nut and bolt?

2. Plans hinge has just enough room on female hinge to allow male hinge to fit with no washer. Should I make a little wider to allow a washer in there?

3. Should I recess into wood? And does fabric need to be cut out of that recess when the time comes?

4. If you are south of the equator and you flush a toilet which way does the water spin?


- The Matronics Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List

_________________
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
glen



Joined: 17 Sep 2013
Posts: 143
Location: Oregon Coast

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:07 pm    Post subject: tail hinges Reply with quote

Hey Paul
Don't know answers to 1-3,but number 4 here goes yes and water comes up from the bottom of toilet cause it's upside down. Pretty obvious ,yes?

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Feb 13, 2014, at 4:54 PM, "nightmare" <pauldonahuepilot(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



Hey guys. Fabricating tail feather hinges as per plans. Those who have also done so, couple of questions.
1. Clevis pin / cotter pin arrangement or nut and bolt?

2. Plans hinge has just enough room on female hinge to allow male hinge to fit with no washer. Should I make a little wider to allow a washer in there?

3. Should I recess into wood? And does fabric need to be cut out of that recess when the time comes?

4. If you are south of the equator and you flush a toilet which way does the water spin?

--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418676#418676












- The Matronics Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
tools



Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 714

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: tail hinges Reply with quote

1. Clevis and cotter pin.

2. I've got no washer... never really thought about it.

3. Seen it done all four ways. Recessed, covered over. Recessed and cut out. Surface mounted covered and cut out.

My preference would be leave flush, install hinges after covering, which means you'll need nut plates inside. This seems to be the best arrangement for maintenance. Also probably the neatest in terms of covering and painting. Cutting around them is harder for me.

I recessed them in MSP/St Pauls EAA chapter project. If I were to do that again, I would use flat head fasteners.

4. Always meant to look, but forgot. Got no clue!


- The Matronics Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
nightmare



Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 427

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: tail hinges Reply with quote

Great Tools. Ill be doing all the above as you described. Thankyou

- The Matronics Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List

_________________
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
tools



Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 714

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:43 am    Post subject: Re: tail hinges Reply with quote

If you're considering nut plates... here's what I just learned...

The aircraft variants are lock nuts. You have to push on a phillips decently to get them in. If you install the nut plates with nails or glue, you'll likely pop one loose. Then you've got a mess...

I just redid all of mine with #2 wood screws to hold the nut plates. Also, use BRAND NEW phillips fasteners and a BRAND NEW screwdriver (edit) THAT FITS*. Or, better yet, use a fancy new fangled drive (square, T series, perhaps hex) that'll prevent you from having to push at all, lessening the chance of taking one loose during installation.

You can make your own nut plates too, using a pinched style of lock nut by brazing to a plate. I wouldn't use nylon in this case since the brazing would probably mess up the nylon...

Probably don't have to use lock nuts, just preflight well, or use lock washers on the outside. I'd cover the part with fasteners partially inserted to prevent any paint substance from getting inside them during covering and painting. Can't really clean lock nuts effectively with a tap afterwards, without removing most of the "lock".

Sans lock nuts at all, I'd use fine thread as that's better for vibration resistance. Regular threads are for strength.
*using a screw driver of the right size is ALWAYS a good idea, but especially so in this case. I removed mine using a poor screwdriver and broke several loose. I had to cut fabric to get in there and hold the spinning nut plate manually. Not a big deal in this case as I was uncovering that part of the wing for repairs. Had that not been the case, I would have been miserable.


- The Matronics Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
nightmare



Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 427

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:49 am    Post subject: Re: tail hinges Reply with quote

Yes Ill definitely take care to fasten my fasteners firmly. I have been using t nuts with epoxy around perimeter of back side but after your experience I may put a wood screw or two just outside of perimeter as well so that the head holds it down. Thanks for advice.
Welded first hinge together last night. I cant get over how much fun im having building these many many little parts. Just a bonus that these assembled parts will eventually allow me to get airborne. Paul


- The Matronics Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List

_________________
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
taildrags



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Medford, OR

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:14 am    Post subject: tail hinges Reply with quote

I don't have anything useful to offer here, but the tail surfaces on my airplane have the cast Vi Kapler hinges rotating on clevis pins secured by cotter pins. My comment about them is that they are possibly the most difficult and frustrating cotter pins to install on the entire airplane. The space in the control surface gap is limited and it's difficult to keep the clevis pin from rotating while you try to spread the legs of the cotter pin, and proper cotter pin installation requires that you clip back the legs... which gives you even less leverage to spread them and then fold them back around the clevis pin.

It's a job best done with two people, and preferably one or both persons will have small hands. And finally, if you do it right the first time, you'll only have to do it once. I've done it more than once.


- The Matronics Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List

_________________
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
nightmare



Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 427

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: tail hinges Reply with quote

Thanks Oscar. As a pain in the butt it sounds, nut and bolt probably even more difficult.
Can only find these clevis pins on AS&S http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/clevispinsgrid.php?clickkey=5503
They say that are for secondary controls only???


- The Matronics Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List

_________________
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
taildrags



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Medford, OR

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: tail hinges Reply with quote

Paul; it's not a problem... all of the flight controls on my airplane are secondary. I am the only primary flight controller aboard.

- The Matronics Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List

_________________
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
nightmare



Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 427

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:40 pm    Post subject: Re: tail hinges Reply with quote

Too funny. Love it

- The Matronics Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List

_________________
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Vincent Dunn



Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 16
Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: tail hinges Reply with quote

I'm ready to order tail hinge hardware from ACS and I need a little help.

Clevis pins, AN393-?? What length?

Washers, AN960-10Light, steel or alum?

Cotter pins, MS24665- ?? Length?

Nut plates, K1000 lockers, two ears

Thanks for the help.


- The Matronics Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List

_________________
Vincent Dunn
Salem Oregon
vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
taildrags



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Medford, OR

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 9:30 pm    Post subject: Re: tail hinges Reply with quote

Vincent: the answer to all of those questions is, "it depends". Because the ears or tabs on the hinges can be left rough or cleaned up very square, the distance between the outside faces of the two-tab half of the hinge will vary with the builder. Yes, the clevis pins should be AN393, but the length will have to be determined experimentally. I personally like to use thin steel washers back there (anything to save weight on the tail), and I like to use fairly long cotter pins because my eyes aren't that great and my fingers aren't that slender and the longer ones are easier to thread through the clevis pin holes. Besides, I cut them short with side cutters so there is just enough length to wrap each clipped leg halfway around the clevis pin (I dislike leaving the legs long). All of this takes a heck of a lot more time than you think it would, and because the (at)#$%& things keep wanting to spin on you when you try to bent the cotter pin legs back around the clevis pin, it's much easier to do if you have a patient and understanding helper available when you get ready to cotter the little suckers. For use during building, I just slide some .049 safety wire through them and give it a twist because I know I'll be putting them on and taking them off a couple of times during fitting and rigging. Cotters go in at final installation.

- The Matronics Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List

_________________
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
taildrags



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Medford, OR

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: tail hinges Reply with quote

Vincent; I also forgot to mention that if it were me, I would use single-ear nutplates for the hinge mounting screws. Less weight. If you epoxy them in place, they should be secure without having to mount with two screws. Melt some candle wax into the threaded part and the epoxy won't stick to the threads and can be cleared out after it's set. However, if you feel better with two-ear nutplates, carry on ;o)

- The Matronics Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List

_________________
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Pietenpol-List All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group