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Did I Fry My Optima Battery?!?!?

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billhuntersemail(at)gmail
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:44 pm Post subject: Did I Fry My Optima Battery?!?!?

So…I left my battery charger connected to an Optima battery overnight on the 10 Amp charge position.  In the immortal words of Homer Simpson “!!!DOH!!!”

 

The Optima battery can be installed in any position other than upside down and my battery was installed on its side.  Well in the morning, I noticed that clear liquid was leaking out of the two small gray ports so I assume that these ports are some kind of vent to release the internal pressure in the instance where some DumbBass left the charger plugged in all night and the battery overheated.   

 

I felt the battery was not hot nor even warm however the liquid was definitely dripping out a fair amount.

 

I thought that these things were supposed to be “spill proof” because they are “gel filled”.  In the past I noticed that when in the battery charger is in the 10 amp position the battery charger only puts out a voltage of about 13.0 volts so I would not have thought that it could cook a battery.  

 

[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01D2EDC9.499F6D00[/img]

 

How can one (me) determine if the fluid/gel level of an Optima battery is still adequate?  I can weigh it and/or I can get it tested at the auto parts store?

 

THANKS for your suggestions/experience/feed back!!!

..

 

Cheers!!!

 

Bill  Hunter

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:36 pm Post subject: Did I Fry My Optima Battery?!?!?

At 05:39 PM 6/25/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  So…I left my battery charger connected to an Optima battery overnight on the 10 Amp charge position.  In the immortal words of Homer Simpson “!!!DOH!!!”

  

 The Optima battery can be installed in any position other than upside down and my battery was installed on its side.  Well in the morning, I noticed that clear liquid was leaking out of the two small gray ports so I assume that these ports are some kind of vent to release the internal pressure in the instance where some DumbBass left the charger plugged in all night and the battery overheated.   

  

 I felt the battery was not hot nor even warm however the liquid was definitely dripping out a fair amount.

  

 I thought that these things were supposed to be “spill proof” because they are “gel filled”.  In the past I noticed that when in the battery charger is in the 10 amp position the battery charger only puts out a voltage of about 13.0 volts so I would not have thought that it could cook a battery.  	


    The 13.0 volt observation seems valid . . . and certainly

    not enough snort to cook an SVLA battery. Yet, here we are.

    I would do a cranking load test on it first. Go to a battery store

    and have them load it DOWN and HOLD at 9 volts for 15 seconds. At the

    end of 15 seconds, note the current. A new battery of that genre would

    probably dump 400-600A.  This test will normally consume less than

    10% of a battery's snort. Follow up with a cap check. Hook a 55W head

    lamp to the battery and see how long it runs before the voltage drops

    below 11.0 volts. Again, for a battery of that ilk, 8 to 10 hours

    is healthy.



    After the first test, put it on a known-good charger/maintainer

    and repeat the test.



    Now, even if it still performs electrically, I wouldn't

    recommend using it for anything other than ground ops.

    It's obviously compromised. 



    Optimas are jelly-roll cells with a rich heritage in

    AGM development and marketing. I'm a bit surprised that

    this thing leaked 'juice'.



    Hmmm . . . found these tid-bits on the 'net



  http://tinyurl.com/ya7lnv5u

  http://tinyurl.com/yaxbbaxl

  http://tinyurl.com/ydbpvo5z

  http://tinyurl.com/y76kk7q9



 

    Seems your experience is not unheard of . . .



    What is the brand and model number of your battery charger?

    I have found, disappointingly, that even the masters of

    battery chargers stub their toe from time to time. I have

    a 'beefy' automotive charger by Schumacher I bought at

    Walmart a few years ago.



  http://tinyurl.com/y7yrzlyk



 

    I was evaluating a battery for Hawker-Beech that

    was purported to be a new, 'carbon foam' device.

    The sample I was working with was a 100A.h. group

    31 truck battery. Needed something much larger than

    my usual stable of battery charger-maintainers.



    This thing was supposed to output charging profiles

    tailored to flooded, gel and AGM batteries. Got to

    watch the behavior during a dozen or more recharge

    cycles on the test battery. Frankly, the behaviors

    in each mode did not match conventional wisdom.



    I've still got the charger. Used it on the truck

    a few weeks ago to mitigate a dome-light-discharge

    event. But in spite of the claims in literature, I

    would not use this charger for anything but utility

    recoveries . . . it's not a 'maintainer' in spite

    of its apparent used of software.



    It would be interesting to test your charger with

    instrumentation to see if it might be responsible

    for your battery's 'accident'.



 



 

 

   Bob . . .

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billhuntersemail(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:04 am Post subject: Did I Fry My Optima Battery?!?!?

 	  Quote: 	
		   Yet, here we are.

 
	


Yup…THANKS Bob for the words of encouragement.

 

I betcha if I would have had the battery sitting straight up that the “gel” would not have leaked out.

..

 

Cheers!!!

 

Bill  Hunter

 

 

 



 

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III

Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 7:36 PM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Did I Fry My Optima Battery?!?!?

 

At 05:39 PM 6/25/2017, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

So…I left my battery charger connected to an Optima battery overnight on the 10 Amp charge position.  In the immortal words of Homer Simpson “!!!DOH!!!”

 

The Optima battery can be installed in any position other than upside down and my battery was installed on its side.  Well in the morning, I noticed that clear liquid was leaking out of the two small gray ports so I assume that these ports are some kind of vent to release the internal pressure in the instance where some DumbBass left the charger plugged in all night and the battery overheated.   

 

I felt the battery was not hot nor even warm however the liquid was definitely dripping out a fair amount.

 

I thought that these things were supposed to be “spill proof” because they are “gel filled”.  In the past I noticed that when in the battery charger is in the 10 amp position the battery charger only puts out a voltage of about 13.0 volts so I would not have thought that it could cook a battery.  	




   The 13.0 volt observation seems valid . . . and certainly

   not enough snort to cook an SVLA battery. Yet, here we are.

   I would do a cranking load test on it first. Go to a battery store

   and have them load it DOWN and HOLD at 9 volts for 15 seconds. At the

   end of 15 seconds, note the current. A new battery of that genre would

   probably dump 400-600A.  This test will normally consume less than

   10% of a battery's snort. Follow up with a cap check. Hook a 55W head

   lamp to the battery and see how long it runs before the voltage drops

   below 11.0 volts. Again, for a battery of that ilk, 8 to 10 hours

   is healthy.



   After the first test, put it on a known-good charger/maintainer

   and repeat the test.



   Now, even if it still performs electrically, I wouldn't

   recommend using it for anything other than ground ops.

   It's obviously compromised. 



   Optimas are jelly-roll cells with a rich heritage in

   AGM development and marketing. I'm a bit surprised that

   this thing leaked 'juice'.



   Hmmm . . . found these tid-bits on the 'net



http://tinyurl.com/ya7lnv5u

http://tinyurl.com/yaxbbaxl

http://tinyurl.com/ydbpvo5z

http://tinyurl.com/y76kk7q9

   Seems your experience is not unheard of . . .



   What is the brand and model number of your battery charger?

   I have found, disappointingly, that even the masters of

   battery chargers stub their toe from time to time. I have

   a 'beefy' automotive charger by Schumacher I bought at

   Walmart a few years ago.



http://tinyurl.com/y7yrzlyk

   I was evaluating a battery for Hawker-Beech that

   was purported to be a new, 'carbon foam' device.

   The sample I was working with was a 100A.h. group

   31 truck battery. Needed something much larger than

   my usual stable of battery charger-maintainers.



   This thing was supposed to output charging profiles

   tailored to flooded, gel and AGM batteries. Got to

   watch the behavior during a dozen or more recharge

   cycles on the test battery. Frankly, the behaviors

   in each mode did not match conventional wisdom.



   I've still got the charger. Used it on the truck

   a few weeks ago to mitigate a dome-light-discharge

   event. But in spite of the claims in literature, I

   would not use this charger for anything but utility

   recoveries . . . it's not a 'maintainer' in spite

   of its apparent used of software.



   It would be interesting to test your charger with

   instrumentation to see if it might be responsible

   for your battery's 'accident'.

  Bob . . .

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:20 am Post subject: Did I Fry My Optima Battery?!?!?

At 10:03 AM 6/26/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   > Yet, here we are.

  

 Yup…THANKS Bob for the words of encouragement.

  

 I betcha if I would have had the battery sitting straight up that the “gel” would not have leaked out.

 .

  	


   Maybe . . . but I've been getting search hits on

   Optima leaks that do not correlate with laying

   the battery down.



   Optima may well be suffering from acquisition creep

   and often profound if not terminal degradation of value

   for a product or service.



   Three patents on jelly-roll cells are found at

    http://tinyurl.com/y7p26p9l   One of these dates

   to 1943, 73 years ago. Roots of the Optima cells

   take a genealogic side track when Gates Rubber

   adapts the idea to the AGM technology with their

   work Circa 1975. At this time, the contained liquid

   in the cells was reduced to less than saturation

   of the glass mat separators.



   At this time, the cells were, like other SBLA/AGM

   products, supposed to be 'leak proof'. Drive a

   nail into them and no liquid comes out.



   Gates got out of the battery business and their

   product lines got scattered to the market. Hawker

   Enersys was interested in the smaller, 2.5 a.h.

   cells, Optima took on the larger cells. I see

   that Enersys has expanded their Cyclon jelly-roll

   line to include the larger, 25 a.h. cells.



  http://tinyurl.com/yd9z6x89



   The Optima line may well have spun off directly

   from Gates . . . their operations spooled up

   in Aurora Co, a short distance from the Gats

   facilities in Colorado.



   I understand they are owned by Johnson Controls

   (who also used to do Gel Cells . . . maybe still

   does) and the factory is moved to Mexico . . . not

   necessarily a bad thing but it does give rise to

   questions about why these products have become

   'leakers'.



   B&C offered the Gates 25 a.h. cells . . . I think

   it was their first venture into AGM technolgy. They

   had been offering Sonnenschein GELS for some time

   previous to Gates AGM. I put an array of these cells

   into the PAT-1 prototype about 1980. Unfortunately,

   the airplane was lost with three souls aboard

   during a demonstration flight for NASA. The Gates

   25 a.h. cells proved problematic in aircraft . . . the

   negative terminals were prone to cracking inside

   the battery . . . the newer Enersys cells are, no

   doubt, more robust.



   In any case, leaking from the Optima products is

   mystifying and surprising. I'll see if I can

   find out more about it.  In the mean time, it's

   sure bet that your existing battery is not

   flight worthy.  Why did you choose so hefty a

   battery?



 

   Bob . . .

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