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Aileron LE Vee layup

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n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 395

Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:40 am Post subject: Aileron LE Vee layup

Hello to the Europa community,



I am making good progress on my XS and have the two ailerons skinned. A little slow due to vacation and work travel but getting there. I am in the process of doing the layup for the leading edge vee cutout for the aileron hinges (step 5) and I have a question:



Can you do this layup with a single length of 45 biased BID or do you need to splice two pieces? BID can be stretched (with corresponding change in fiber bias) but its generally acceptable up to point. I starter with 6-5 inch wide strips but at a final 4 inches wide I am just a hair short of the full aileron length. It's possible that a wider piece may do it but I am starting to feel I am pushing it too hard. Just trying to see what people did since the manual makes you believe a single long piece will be enough (no mention of splicing or cutting more than two full length pieces).



BTW, I do have a web site where I am documenting my build.  Will make the address public soon!



Thanks,

Chris

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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:22 am Post subject: Aileron LE Vee layup

Chris, You may get a definitive answer from a real expert, but I would say that it would not matter whether you : 

1. Stretch it to cover; 2. put it on at an angle slightly less than 45 degrees to cover or 3. use an extra piece and overlap the pieces. But I would personally reject 3. as being less neat and heavier. 

Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ 

   

 

On 2017-07-05 14:40, n7188u wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com (chmgarb(at)gmail.com)>



Hello to the Europa community,



I am making good progress on my XS and have the two ailerons skinned. A little slow due to vacation and work travel but getting there. I am in the process of doing the layup for the leading edge vee cutout for the aileron hinges (step 5) and I have a question:



Can you do this layup with a single length of 45 biased BID or do you need to splice two pieces? BID can be stretched (with corresponding change in fiber bias) but its generally acceptable up to point. I starter with 6-5 inch wide strips but at a final 4 inches wide I am just a hair short of the full aileron length. It's possible that a wider piece may do it but I am starting to feel I am pushing it too hard. Just trying to see what people did since the manual makes you believe a single long piece will be enough (no mention of splicing or cutting more than two full length pieces).



BTW, I do have a web site where I am documenting my build.  Will make the address public soon!



Thanks,

Chris





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470692#470692

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rowlandcarson(at)gmail.co
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:32 am Post subject: Aileron LE Vee layup

On 2017-07-05, at 14:40, n7188u <chmgarb(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I am in the process of doing the layup for the leading edge vee cutout for the aileron hinges (step 5) and I have a question:

 

 Can you do this layup with a single length of 45 biased BID or do you need to splice two pieces?


	


Chris - I had a similar query a long time ago and went to the source (Neville) for the answer. You can see the story on my build journal for 3 January 2003 here:



http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/200301.php

Hope this helps.



in friendship



Rowland



| Rowland Carson          ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

| <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>            http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk

| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson      Facebook: Rowland Carson

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n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 395

Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Aileron LE Vee layup

Thank you David and Rowland. 



As to the options, I am trying to stay away from the overlap. Probably not that bad but it seems the factory intended you to stretch the tape and it would look better. Even Rutan mentioned it's acceptable for most applications (in the LongEZ and Cozy plans, which is what I'm familiar with).



My problem is that even with stretch, I am a little short. I'll figure it out since it is obvious per Rowland's log that it is possible.



I'm just surprised that they don't have you use two layers of uni at 30 degrees and BID in the aileron hinge reinforcements. By the time you stretch the BID you are probably close to that.



Thanks for the reference to your log Rowland. I actually searched through it and the pictures yesterday since you do have a lot of info there. But I just didn't find it since it's difficult to find exactly where in the logs you are building something of particular interest. But thanks to your reference I have it now bookmarked.



BTW, when reading your log it's obvious that laying up this vee is a bear of a job!! It seems that doing all the layers in the poly is the way to go but the peel-ply removal seems to be a hughe issue. Maybe I will place it not quite all the way in (stay away from the fillet) and sand the inside a little using the flat permagrit tool.



Best regards,

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n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 395

Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Aileron LE Vee layup

As promised, here is my build website:



https://sites.google.com/site/martineuropaxsa291/



Best,

Chris

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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:37 pm Post subject: Aileron LE Vee layup

Great site!  Thx! (Im taking notes:)



One thing, is you tank bonded in with the epoxy layups? I hope not, and hope there is some sort of release between the tank and the glass...otherwise it *will* crack after it swells from the fuel and shrinks when empty (additional fluorinating reduces this phenomena)



Cheers,

Pete



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 5, 2017, at 9:07 PM, n7188u <chmgarb(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 As promised, here is my build website:

 

 https://sites.google.com/site/martineuropaxsa291/home

 

 Best,

 Chris

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470708#470708

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n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 395

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Aileron LE Vee layup

Thanks for the heads up Pete. 



When I bought the kit, the cockpit module came as you see in the picture and, per the documentation I got, it seems that the CM was pre-build when bought.



I took a quick look at the manual and it seems this CM tank installation was performed per the manual instructions but after, reading your post, I did a search in the forum and sure enough there is mention of the issue of tank expansion.



Oh well, something else to have some extra fun with. I will probably post a new message to inquire about this.



Thanks for bringing this up.



Chris

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