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Stabilator travel change

 
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graeme bird



Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:06 pm    Post subject: Stabilator travel change Reply with quote

Looking at the counter balance weight movement and a rough assessment of angle of movement of the stabilator (down), the weight is not travelling so far down the slot and the angle not so great and I am wondering what the cause could be?
The main tube has not rotated. I presume that if one of the tubes at the bottom of the control column rotated the distance between the two bearing ends would be the same (until one came unthreaded). It didnt seem to be anything to do with the pitch autopilot. Any one else seen this? Or have a clue for me. I'm currently musing on it while on holiday so no access for investigation till I am back, I did do some brief investigating though.
A lack of tail down control might explain the feeling of "running out of air" in my last two (slightly abrupt) landings; with not much airspeed and needing to flare to arrest descent.


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Graeme Bird
kit4 (Wagstaff) TBD
Kit3 G-CLXU (Gregory) mono 914 xs Woodcomp
Kit2 G-PATS - (kesterton) Mono Classic 912 warpdrive
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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:45 am    Post subject: Stabilator travel change Reply with quote

Graeme, Have you measured the actual range of movement from the neutral position of the tailplane? The reqired range is set out in the build manual. If you are not getting the full range it certainly needs sorting before anyy more flying
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ


On 2017-07-10 21:06, graeme bird wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk (graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk)>

Looking at the counter balance weight movement and a rough assessment of angle of movement of the stabilator (down), the weight is not travelling so far down the slot and the angle not so great and I am wondering what the cause could be?
The main tube has not rotated. I presume that if one of the tubes at the bottom of the control column rotated the distance between the two bearing ends would be the same (until one came unthreaded). It didnt seem to be anything to do with the pitch autopilot. Any one else seen this? Or have a clue for me. I'm currently musing on it while on holiday so no access for investigation till I am back, I did do some brief investigating though.
A lack of tail down control might explain the feeling of "running out of air" in my last two (slightly abrupt) landings; with not much airspeed and needing to flare to arrest descent.

--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp 3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 axis AP, PAW, PFLARM core, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP-5, Aera500, SD on Nexus, SmartA3
290 hours &amp; 5 years on the Mono, 930 total
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk


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JonSmith



Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 110

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:50 am    Post subject: Re: Stabilator travel change Reply with quote

Graeme, the tailplane and mass balance arm assembly is effectively a one-piece component pivoting within the torque tube bearings, the limits of movement being the mass balance weight striking the top and bottom of its vertical guides in the fuselage respectively. These limits of movement of the weight are the elevator control stops, there are no other stops anywhere else. When the weight is fully up (against the inside of the fuselage top) then the tailplane will be in its full down elevator position and when the weight is fully down (on its lower stop that is built into the tower just above the elevator control torque tube) then the tailplane will be in its full up elevator postion. The tailplane/ mass balance weight assembly must be able to run fully and freely between these two stops and the control surface deflection must be correct as per the manual at each limit. As David says, if you are in any doubt about the system if only for piece of mind you should have a jolly good look at it all before next flight. Without wild speculation I can't really think what could suddenly go wrong with it? Would be interested to hear if you do find anything - or hopefully if you find everything is ok.....!

Again, without wishing to wildly speculate - if it feels like you are "running out of elevator" on landing, you don't think that for whatever reason you might be getting too slow on final approach and effectively stalling it in? Have you changed anything in your ASI system that could perhaps cause it to overread and therefore you might not be as fast as you might think? Sorry again for speculation - just a thought!
All the best, Jon


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JonSmith



Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 110

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:00 am    Post subject: Re: Stabilator travel change Reply with quote

Ps. Required elevator (tailplane) deflections from the neutral position being;

Elevator UP: 12 degrees (+1 / -0)

Elevator DOWN: 4 degrees (+1 / -0)

Easy to measure with a digital level.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:17 am    Post subject: Stabilator travel change Reply with quote

Graeme/Jon, It is not impossible to imagine that a tool or some other foreign object has got misplaced around the CS10 pitch torque tube or some other part of the the pitch control system in such a way as to limit movement, but measuring tail plane travel The acceptable limits for the movement of the tail plane from its neutral position are:+12 to 13 degrees  & - 4 to 5 degrees. If you are not getting that range you have a problem!
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ


On 2017-07-12 09:50, JonSmith wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "JonSmith" <jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk (jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk)>

Graeme, the tailplane and mass balance arm assembly is effectively a one-piece component pivoting within the torque tube bearings, the limits of movement being the mass balance weight striking the top and bottom of its vertical guides in the fuselage respectively. These limits of movement of the weight are the elevator control stops, there are no other stops anywhere else. When the weight is fully up (against the inside of the fuselage top) then the tailplane will be in its full down elevator position and when the weight is fully down (on its lower stop that is built into the tower just above the elevator control torque tube) then the tailplane will be in its full up elevator postion. The tailplane/ mass balance weight assembly must be able to run fully and freely between these two stops and the control surface deflection must be correct as per the manual at each limit. As David says, if you are in any doubt about the system if only for piece of mind you should have a jo!


lly good look at it all before next flight. Without wild speculation I can't really think what could suddenly go wrong with it? Would be interested to hear if you do find anything - or hopefully if you find everything is ok.....!

Again, without wishing to wildly speculate - if it feels like you are "running out of elevator" on landing, you don't think that for whatever reason you might be getting too slow on final approach and effectively stalling it in? Have you changed anything in your ASI system that could perhaps cause it to overread and therefore you might not be as fast as you might think? Sorry again for speculation - just a thought!
All the best, Jon

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G-TERN
Classic Mono


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pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:45 am    Post subject: Stabilator travel change Reply with quote

Graeme,
I am in complete agreement with everything Jon has written but would also
like to add one further thought. Have you checked for undesirable play
between torque tube TP 4 and either TP12 or TP 9. Excessive play here
could cause loss of correct elevator movement.
For information on this subject refer to LAA-247-001 and LAA-247-002
Flight Safety Bulletins on the LAA web site.
Pete Jeffers
--


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JonSmith



Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 110

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:56 am    Post subject: Re: Stabilator travel change Reply with quote

Hugely valid points David & Pete.

David - brings back sad memories of the Andy Gough Blanik (glider) crash whilst displaying at Brize in the early 80's. Downed by a misplaced spanner fouling the elevator control system.


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graeme bird



Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: Stabilator travel change Reply with quote

thanks for your replies on this I shall check all these points out carefully.

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Graeme Bird
kit4 (Wagstaff) TBD
Kit3 G-CLXU (Gregory) mono 914 xs Woodcomp
Kit2 G-PATS - (kesterton) Mono Classic 912 warpdrive
Kit 1 G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS 912S, Woodcomp G(@)gdbmk.co.uk
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