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email(at)jaredyates.com
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 Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:24 pm Post subject: Local Automotive Source for Starter Contactor? |
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When I attempted to crank my Z13/8 today I got nothing, no click or anything from the starter contactor. It has been working fine for 250 hours with no hints of any trouble.
First step was to verify with the meter that I am getting 12v at the contactor when I engage the start switch, and that is verified, so I'm thinking the contactor must have gone bad.
One easy option is to order one of these from B&C:
http://www.bandc.aero/intermittentdutystartercontactor.aspx
But he's in Kansas and I'm AOG in North Carolina. I'll call first thing in the morning to see how long it will take for him to ship one to me.
Bob has said in the list archives that the B&C is a part with automotive pedigree. Being that there are 5 different brands of auto parts stores within short driving distance, has anyone found what that automotive pedigree is? Usually around here the folks that work at those places can't operate without a year/make/model to put into their computer. So has anyone found a way to get a similar part from the local chain auto parts store? Like what kind of car it might have once been used in?
Looking at ebay item 1639535936 it looks very similar, though I gather that on the ebay option one of the two small terminals needs to be routed to ground, instead of to a starter engaged indicator. The seller lists in his compatibility charts that it fits a huge list of ubiquitous vehicles including the F150, Taurus, etc. If there isn't a closer match to the B&C, is there a good reason why this one wouldn't be a good choice to get back in the air safely?
Thanks in advance!
Jared
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user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1908
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Local Automotive Source for Starter Contactor? |
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Since the eBay seller lists compatible vehicles, why not go to your local auto parts store and tell them that you want to buy a starter contactor for one of those vehicles mentioned on eBay?
Bob's website has contactor manufacturer's datasheets.
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data.html
Pick one that has mounting holes and internal connections like your old one.
Install an arc suppression diode across the coil with the banded end connected to the small positive terminal.
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hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:11 am Post subject: Local Automotive Source for Starter Contactor? |
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Numerous Ford vehicles in the 60's through at least the 80's used a similar starter relay. The real problem is getting one that actually works for a decent period of time. I have a 1988 Ford Bronco II that recently needed a new contactor, so I went to my local NAPA to get one. It failed within 2 weeks, and worse yet, it failed by not disengaging! I returned it and asked if they perhaps had a better quality one. Paid a little extra, but same problem within a month. I finally put an old salvaged contactor from a derelict Cessna 150 on my Bronco and it's been fine every since. My take is that it might be difficult to get a quality unit from a chain auto parts store. A contactor that doesn't engage is one thing. It's a lot worse when it won't stop cranking your engine. I still drive around with a handy wrench to disconnect my battery. Fortunately, in your plane you can turn off the master switch.
Ivan Haecker
On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 9:23 PM, Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com (email(at)jaredyates.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | When I attempted to crank my Z13/8 today I got nothing, no click or anything from the starter contactor. It has been working fine for 250 hours with no hints of any trouble.
First step was to verify with the meter that I am getting 12v at the contactor when I engage the start switch, and that is verified, so I'm thinking the contactor must have gone bad.
One easy option is to order one of these from B&C:
http://www.bandc.aero/intermittentdutystartercontactor.aspx
But he's in Kansas and I'm AOG in North Carolina. I'll call first thing in the morning to see how long it will take for him to ship one to me.
Bob has said in the list archives that the B&C is a part with automotive pedigree. Being that there are 5 different brands of auto parts stores within short driving distance, has anyone found what that automotive pedigree is? Usually around here the folks that work at those places can't operate without a year/make/model to put into their computer. So has anyone found a way to get a similar part from the local chain auto parts store? Like what kind of car it might have once been used in?
Looking at ebay item 1639535936 it looks very similar, though I gather that on the ebay option one of the two small terminals needs to be routed to ground, instead of to a starter engaged indicator. The seller lists in his compatibility charts that it fits a huge list of ubiquitous vehicles including the F150, Taurus, etc. If there isn't a closer match to the B&C, is there a good reason why this one wouldn't be a good choice to get back in the air safely?
Thanks in advance!
Jared
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email(at)jaredyates.com
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:26 am Post subject: Local Automotive Source for Starter Contactor? |
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Thanks Ivan, I'm going to try a NAPA ST404 and see how it holds up. It is taking a little work to get it installed, with the terminals and mounting holes being different than the old one. I didn't see you at Oshkosh this year were you around?
On August 16, 2017 11:19:14 "H. Ivan Haecker" <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com> wrote: | Quote: | Numerous Ford vehicles in the 60's through at least the 80's used a similar starter relay. The real problem is getting one that actually works for a decent period of time. I have a 1988 Ford Bronco II that recently needed a new contactor, so I went to my local NAPA to get one. It failed within 2 weeks, and worse yet, it failed by not disengaging! I returned it and asked if they perhaps had a better quality one. Paid a little extra, but same problem within a month. I finally put an old salvaged contactor from a derelict Cessna 150 on my Bronco and it's been fine every since. My take is that it might be difficult to get a quality unit from a chain auto parts store. A contactor that doesn't engage is one thing. It's a lot worse when it won't stop cranking your engine. I still drive around with a handy wrench to disconnect my battery. Fortunately, in your plane you can turn off the master switch.
Ivan Haecker
On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 9:23 PM, Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com (email(at)jaredyates.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | When I attempted to crank my Z13/8 today I got nothing, no click or anything from the starter contactor. It has been working fine for 250 hours with no hints of any trouble.
First step was to verify with the meter that I am getting 12v at the contactor when I engage the start switch, and that is verified, so I'm thinking the contactor must have gone bad.
One easy option is to order one of these from B&C:
http://www.bandc.aero/intermittentdutystartercontactor.aspx
But he's in Kansas and I'm AOG in North Carolina. I'll call first thing in the morning to see how long it will take for him to ship one to me.
Bob has said in the list archives that the B&C is a part with automotive pedigree. Being that there are 5 different brands of auto parts stores within short driving distance, has anyone found what that automotive pedigree is? Usually around here the folks that work at those places can't operate without a year/make/model to put into their computer. So has anyone found a way to get a similar part from the local chain auto parts store? Like what kind of car it might have once been used in?
Looking at ebay item 1639535936 it looks very similar, though I gather that on the ebay option one of the two small terminals needs to be routed to ground, instead of to a starter engaged indicator. The seller lists in his compatibility charts that it fits a huge list of ubiquitous vehicles including the F150, Taurus, etc. If there isn't a closer match to the B&C, is there a good reason why this one wouldn't be a good choice to get back in the air safely?
Thanks in advance!
Jared
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hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:11 pm Post subject: Local Automotive Source for Starter Contactor? |
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Yes, I flew Mark's Patrol up there, but since it was damaged during a demo flight, I got to fly the LSA back to Texas. I was impressed with its performance.
I believe a company named White Rogers makes a good quality stater contactor.
Ivan Haecker
On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com (email(at)jaredyates.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Thanks Ivan, I'm going to try a NAPA ST404 and see how it holds up. It is taking a little work to get it installed, with the terminals and mounting holes being different than the old one. I didn't see you at Oshkosh this year were you around?
On August 16, 2017 11:19:14 "H. Ivan Haecker" <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com)> wrote: | Quote: | Numerous Ford vehicles in the 60's through at least the 80's used a similar starter relay. The real problem is getting one that actually works for a decent period of time. I have a 1988 Ford Bronco II that recently needed a new contactor, so I went to my local NAPA to get one. It failed within 2 weeks, and worse yet, it failed by not disengaging! I returned it and asked if they perhaps had a better quality one. Paid a little extra, but same problem within a month. I finally put an old salvaged contactor from a derelict Cessna 150 on my Bronco and it's been fine every since. My take is that it might be difficult to get a quality unit from a chain auto parts store. A contactor that doesn't engage is one thing. It's a lot worse when it won't stop cranking your engine. I still drive around with a handy wrench to disconnect my battery. Fortunately, in your plane you can turn off the master switch.
Ivan Haecker
On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 9:23 PM, Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com (email(at)jaredyates.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | When I attempted to crank my Z13/8 today I got nothing, no click or anything from the starter contactor. It has been working fine for 250 hours with no hints of any trouble.
First step was to verify with the meter that I am getting 12v at the contactor when I engage the start switch, and that is verified, so I'm thinking the contactor must have gone bad.
One easy option is to order one of these from B&C:
http://www.bandc.aero/intermittentdutystartercontactor.aspx
But he's in Kansas and I'm AOG in North Carolina. I'll call first thing in the morning to see how long it will take for him to ship one to me.
Bob has said in the list archives that the B&C is a part with automotive pedigree. Being that there are 5 different brands of auto parts stores within short driving distance, has anyone found what that automotive pedigree is? Usually around here the folks that work at those places can't operate without a year/make/model to put into their computer. So has anyone found a way to get a similar part from the local chain auto parts store? Like what kind of car it might have once been used in?
Looking at ebay item 1639535936 it looks very similar, though I gather that on the ebay option one of the two small terminals needs to be routed to ground, instead of to a starter engaged indicator. The seller lists in his compatibility charts that it fits a huge list of ubiquitous vehicles including the F150, Taurus, etc. If there isn't a closer match to the B&C, is there a good reason why this one wouldn't be a good choice to get back in the air 6579150429883879774HOEnZb">Jared
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email(at)jaredyates.com
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:14 am Post subject: Local Automotive Source for Starter Contactor? |
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Thanks Bob, I was able to test the Napa version today, and so far it is working.
On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 09:23 PM 8/15/2017, you wrote:
| Quote: | | When I attempted to crank my Z13/8 today I got nothing, no click or anything from the starter contactor. It has been working fine for 250 hours with no hints of any trouble. |
Yup . . . things break
| Quote: | First step was to verify with the meter that I am getting 12v at the contactor when I engage the start switch, and that is verified, so I'm thinking the contactor must have gone bad.
One easy option is to order one of these from B&C:
http://www.bandc.aero/intermittentdutystartercontactor.aspx
But he's in Kansas and I'm AOG in North Carolina. I'll call first thing in the morning to see how long it will take for him to ship one to me. |
Go to any local parts store and ask for a Standard
SS598 or it's cross-referenced equivalent.
[img]cid:.0[/img]
| Quote: | | Bob has said in the list archives that the B&C is a part with automotive pedigree. Being that there are 5 different brands of auto parts stores within short driving distance, has anyone found what that automotive pedigree is? Usually around here the folks that work at those places can't operate without a year/make/model to put into their computer. So has anyone found a way to get a similar part from the local chain auto parts store? Like what kind of car it might have once been used in? |
Just about every part that found its way onto
airplanes has roots in grounded vehicles.
Event the vaunted split-rocket switch
customized for aircraft in the early
days of alternators-on-airplanes was
a modified, commercial off the shelf
component with no roots in aviation.
| Quote: | | Looking at ebay item 1639535936 it looks very similar, though I gather that on the ebay option one of the two small terminals needs to be routed to ground, instead of to a starter engaged indicator. The seller lists in his compatibility charts that it fits a huge list of ubiquitous vehicles including the F150, Taurus, etc. If there isn't a closer match to the B&C, is there a good reason why this one wouldn't be a good choice to get back in the air safely? |
Define 'safely'. There is no such thing
as a safe airplane. Airplanes are dangerous as
hell with all manner of hazard when
limits are not identified and accounted
for with training, planning and skilled
execution.
So your contactor failed. Did that create
a high risk condition? In what circumstance
would a contactor failure in flight represent
a more high risk condition?
If you're wanting to get back the air ASAP,
then hit the local autoparts store. There
are few, if any starter contactors offered
there that cannot be adapted to your needs
with immeasurable difference in levels
of risk.
Bob . . .
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