Matronics Email Lists Forum Index Matronics Email Lists
BBS Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
 
 Get Email Distribution Too!Get Email Distribution Too!    FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Wing walk
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> KIS-List
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
hansoncp(at)netnitco.net
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:12 am    Post subject: Wing walk Reply with quote

Bob, I would try mounting the GPS antennas under the glare shield as Galin says. I have a fiberglass glare shield and mine works fine with GPS and ADS-B in. You can always move it to outside later if need be.
[quote] ---


- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
Back to top
Robert Reed



Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 244
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:41 am    Post subject: Wing walk Reply with quote

Galin,
I had planned and purchased the GPS-2020 prior to mounting the overhead console with every intent to mount it inside the overhead console but then I read the following.
The SV-GPS-2020 is limited to ground speeds of 400 knots and below. To meet the integrity level required for an ADS-B position source, the SV-GPS-2020 needs a stronger GPS signal than the SV-GPS-250 and may not work acceptably unless mounted on the outside of the aircraft.


I called Dynon to confirm their recommendation included fiberglass aircraft and they confirmed. They did say that it "might" work ok and I could try it and if not acceptable then move to the outside. Personally, I am TIRED of mounting, dismounting, mounting and repeating. I mounted the GPS antenna on the outside top just behind the back of the doors. I wired and upholstered the overhead and it's IN and done, hopefully to stay in for a long time.
Bob

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>
To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Wing walk


What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals.
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:
Al,

Totally agree with everything you said. I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow. I cringed at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside. I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional. As a result, it has cost me more time and money than Icould ever imagine and still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect. My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible. If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell. Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly.

I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur upholstery work. The lower cowling has already and will continue to get some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time. As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight. That once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire thing but not now. I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection.
Bob Reed

PS: I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years. I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it.
From: Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> To: kisbuilders <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: Wing walk
A few thoughts:A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple". The same could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines.

I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step. That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size shoe or wore heels?

I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Galin's pics). If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with a grit mixture can be used.
Al

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)> wrote: > > gave







- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:08 am    Post subject: Wing walk Reply with quote

Take it from someone who has studies and worked in RF propagation for over 40yrs, it makes no noticeable difference. Otherwise fiberglass radomes would not exist over the majority of radar sites/installations. But if it is done then don't worry about it and continue forward. Except for aesthetics, there will be little to no difference in aerodynamics or RF reception and we all want to see your bird flying. 

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:
Galin,
I had planned and purchased the GPS-2020 prior to mounting the overhead console with every intent to mount it inside the overhead console but then I read the following.
The SV-GPS-2020 is limited to ground speeds of 400 knots and below. To meet the integrity level required for an ADS-B position source, the SV-GPS-2020 needs a stronger GPS signal than the SV-GPS-250 and may not work acceptably unless mounted on the outside of the aircraft.


I called Dynon to confirm their recommendation included fiberglass aircraft and they confirmed.  They did say that it "might" work ok and I could try it and if not acceptable then move to the outside.  Personally, I am TIRED of mounting, dismounting, mounting and repeating.  I mounted the GPS antenna on the outside top just behind the back of the doors.  I wired and upholstered the overhead and it's IN and done, hopefully to stay in for a long time.
Bob

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>
To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Wing walk


What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals.
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:
Al,

Totally agree with everything you said.  I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow.  I cringed at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside.  I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional.  As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever  imagine and still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect.  My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible.  If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell.  Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly.

I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur upholstery work.  The lower cowling has already and will continue to get some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time.  As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight.   That once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire thing but not now.  I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection.
Bob Reed

PS:  I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years.  I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it.
From: Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> To: kisbuilders <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: Wing walk
A few thoughts:A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple".  The same could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines.

I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step.  That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size shoe or wore heels?

I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Galin's pics).  If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with a grit mixture can be used.
Al

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)> wrote: > > gave












- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
Back to top
Robert Reed



Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 244
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:37 am    Post subject: Wing walk Reply with quote

Galin,
It's done, has been done for a couple of weeks. I hated it at first but now I just look at it as one more step behind me. I posted a photo to the Facebook group showing current status including the GPS antenna. Hell, it just looks like a wart on the top of the plane. (BG) Got a lot of wiring to do this weekend and waiting for the FLYEFII system to arrive. Received all the engine sensors so I can start on them. Also have the Dynon Adahrs with pitot and static lines to install this weekend.
I estimate about 160 hours of actual work remaining on the plane and another 40 hours for documentation and paperwork.
I am looking for a good Test Pilot to do the first 5 hours. I know I am not current or qualified to do that.
Know anyone Galin....Hint, Hint?
Bob
PS: Sure glad you weren't still in Houston during all of the current disaster.

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>
To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: Wing walk


Take it from someone who has studies and worked in RF propagation for over 40yrs, it makes no noticeable difference. Otherwise fiberglass radomes would not exist over the majority of radar sites/installations. But if it is done then don't worry about it and continue forward. Except for aesthetics, there will be little to no difference in aerodynamics or RF reception and we all want to see your bird flying.
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:
Galin,

I had planned and purchased the GPS-2020 prior to mounting the overhead console with every intent to mount it inside the overhead console but then I read the following.

The SV-GPS-2020 is limited to ground speeds of 400 knots and below. To meet the integrity level required for an ADS-B position source, the SV-GPS-2020 needs a stronger GPS signal than the SV-GPS-250 and may not work acceptably unless mounted on the outside of the aircraft.
I called Dynon to confirm their recommendation included fiberglass aircraft and they confirmed. They did say that it "might" work ok and I could try it and if not acceptable then move to the outside. Personally, I am TIRED of mounting, dismounting, mounting and repeating. I mounted the GPS antenna on the outside top just behind the back of the doors. I wired and upholstered the overhead and it's IN and done, hopefully to stay in for a long time.

Bob

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:28 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk
What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals.
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:
Al,

Totally agree with everything you said. I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow. I cringed at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside. I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional. As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever imagine and still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect. My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible. If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell. Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly.

I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur upholstery work. The lower cowling has already and will continue to get some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time. As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight. That once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire thing but not now. I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection.
Bob Reed

PS: I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years. I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it.
From: Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> To: kisbuilders <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: Wing walk
A few thoughts:A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple". The same could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines.

I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step. That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size shoe or wore heels?

I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Galin's pics). If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with a grit mixture can be used.
Al

<fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)> wrote: > > gave












- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject: Wing walk Reply with quote

Bob; We can get you current and qualified to do the flights. We did that for Ed Hanson and he fully enjoyed being the 1st person to fly his creation. Once you have the airworthiness certificate in hand it is a simple 3 step process that even the insurance company said was acceptable:

Step 1 - Get 10hrs of dual and an instructor "sign off" in a DA40. This should be easy to do in your area.
Step 2 - Visit St. Augustine for a few days and get 5hrs of KIS4 "orientation" with me. I can't sign as an instructor but with all my KIS4 hours can get you real comfortable with the airframe and the insurance company agreed with this.
Step 3 - Go back to Lancaster and you enjoy the fruits of your hard work by making the flight(s).
You will always regret not doing the first flight in your airplane.


Virus-free. www.avg.com [url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2][/url]

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:
Galin,
It's done, has been done for a couple of weeks.  I hated it at first but now I just look at it as one more step behind me.  I posted a photo to the Facebook group showing current status including the GPS antenna.  Hell, it just looks like a wart on the top of the plane.  (BG)  Got a lot of wiring to do this weekend and waiting for the FLYEFII system to arrive.  Received all the engine sensors so I can start on them.  Also have the Dynon Adahrs with pitot and static lines to install this weekend.
I estimate about 160 hours of actual work remaining on the plane and a8424184955011651065yui_3_16_0_1_1504199798956_6300" dir="ltr">

I am looking for a good Test Pilot to do the first 5 hours.  I know I am not current or qualified to do that. 
Know anyone Galin....Hint, Hint?
Bob
PS:  Sure glad you weren't still in Houston during all of the current disaster.

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>
To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: Wing walk




Take it from someone who has studies and worked in RF propagation for over 40yrs, it makes no noticeable difference. Otherwise fiberglass radomes would not exist over the majority of radar sites/installations. But if it is done then don't worry about it and continue forward. Except for aesthetics, there will be little to no difference in aerodynamics or RF reception and we all want to see your bird flying. 
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:

Quote:
Galin,

I had planned and purchased the GPS-2020 prior to mounting the overhead console with every intent to mount it inside the overhead console but then I read the following.

The SV-GPS-2020 is limited to ground speeds of 400 knots and below. To meet the integrity level required for an ADS-B position source, the SV-GPS-2020 needs a stronger GPS signal than the SV-GPS-250 and may not work acceptably unless mounted on the outside of the aircraft.
I called Dynon to confirm their recommendation included fiberglass aircraft and they confirmed.  They did say that it "might" work ok and I could try it and if not acceptable then move to the outside.  Personally, I am TIRED of mounting, dismounting, mounting and repeating.  I mounted the GPS antenna on the outside top just behind the back of the doors.  I wired and upholstered the overhead and it's IN and done, hopefully to stay in for a long time.

Bob

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:28 AM Subject: Re: Wing walk


What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals.
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:

Quote:
Al,

Totally agree with everything you said.  I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow.  I cringed at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside.  I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional.  As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever  imagine and still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect.  My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible.  If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell.  Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly.

I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur upholstery work.  The lower cowling has already and will continue to get some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time.  As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight.   That once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire thing but not now.  I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection.
Bob Reed

PS:  I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years.  I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it.


From: Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> To: kisbuilders <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: Wing walk
A few thoughts:A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple".  The same could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines.

I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step.  That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size shoe or wore heels?

I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Galin's pics).  If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with a grit mixture can be used.
Al

<fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)> wrote: > > gave

















- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
Back to top
Robert Reed



Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 244
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:58 am    Post subject: Wing walk Reply with quote

Galin,
I like your three step process and I will reserve judgement on Step-3 until after I have completed Steps 1 and 2.
1. Does it have to be a DA40 or would a Gruman Tiger substitute? I only know of one place in DFW with the DA40 and they are way on the wrong side of DFW.
2. Are you SURE you want me flying your plane? I have been with you so you know how rusty I was on the rudder. Seriously, I would really appreciate that. It would give me a chance to get to know the plane and the Dynon at the same time.
3. If I feel confident to do so then I will but I don't want to regret that first flight either.
Bob

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>
To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: Wing walk


Bob; We can get you current and qualified to do the flights. We did that for Ed Hanson and he fully enjoyed being the 1st person to fly his creation. Once you have the airworthiness certificate in hand it is a simple 3 step process that even the insurance company said was acceptable:
Step 1 - Get 10hrs of dual and an instructor "sign off" in a DA40. This should be easy to do in your area.
Step 2 - Visit St. Augustine for a few days and get 5hrs of KIS4 "orientation" with me. I can't sign as an instructor but with all my KIS4 hours can get you real comfortable with the airframe and the insurance company agreed with this.
Step 3 - Go back to Lancaster and you enjoy the fruits of your hard work by making the flight(s).

You will always regret not doing the first flight in your airplane.
Virus-free. www.avg.com [url=https://mg.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.partner=sbc&.rand=3tnenns12up77#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2][/url]
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:
Galin,

It's done, has been done for a couple of weeks. I hated it at first but now I just look at it as one more step behind me. I posted a photo to the Facebook group showing current status including the GPS antenna. Hell, it just looks like a wart on the top of the plane. (BG) Got a lot of wiring to do this weekend and waiting for the FLYEFII system to arrive. Received all the engine sensors so I can start on them. Also have the Dynon Adahrs with pitot and static lines to install this weekend.

I estimate about 160 hours of actual work remaining on the plane and a8424184955011651065yui_3_16_0_1_1504199798956_6300" dir="ltr">
I am looking for a good Test Pilot to do the first 5 hours. I know I am not current or qualified to do that.

Know anyone Galin....Hint, Hint?

Bob

PS: Sure glad you weren't still in Houston during all of the current disaster.

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 1:13 PM Subject: Re: Wing walk


Take it from someone who has studies and worked in RF propagation for over 40yrs, it makes no noticeable difference. Otherwise fiberglass radomes would not exist over the majority of radar sites/installations. But if it is done then don't worry about it and continue forward. Except for aesthetics, there will be little to no difference in aerodynamics or RF reception and we all want to see your bird flying.
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:

Quote:
Galin,

I had planned and purchased the GPS-2020 prior to mounting the overhead console with every intent to mount it inside the overhead console but then I read the following.

The SV-GPS-2020 is limited to ground speeds of 400 knots and below. To meet the integrity level required for an ADS-B position source, the SV-GPS-2020 needs a stronger GPS signal than the SV-GPS-250 and may not work acceptably unless mounted on the outside of the aircraft.
I called Dynon to confirm their recommendation included fiberglass aircraft and they confirmed. They did say that it "might" work ok and I could try it and if not acceptable then move to the outside. Personally, I am TIRED of mounting, dismounting, mounting and repeating. I mounted the GPS antenna on the outsidetop just behind the back of the doors. I wired and upholstered the overhead and it's IN and done, hopefully to stay in for a long time.

Bob

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:28 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk


What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals.
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:

Quote:
Al,

Totally agree with everything you said. I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow. I cringed at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside. I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional. As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever imagine and still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect. My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible. If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell. Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly.

I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur upholstery work. The lower cowling has already and will continue to get some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time. As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight. That once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire thing but not now. I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection.
Bob Reed

PS: I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years. I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it.


From: Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> To: kisbuilders <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: Wing walk
A few thoughts:A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple". The same could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines.
I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step. That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size shoe or wore heels?

I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Galin's pics). If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with a grit mixture can be used.
Al

<fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)> wrote: > > gave


















- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Wing walk Reply with quote

Bob, to answer your questions;

1.  Does it have to be a DA40 or would a Gruman Tiger substitute?


I highly recommend a DA40 instead of a Tiger for getting current. You can do 10hrs in less than 1 week. I have some DA40 time (about 15hrs) and I find it's flight characteristics are very similar to our KIS4. A Tiger won't simulate flying a KIS4 like a DA40 will and that is the ultimate goal.
2. Are you SURE you want me flying your plane?  I have been with you so you know how rusty I was on the rudder.  Seriously, I would really appreciate that.  It would give me a chance to get to know the plane and the Dynon at the same time.


Yes I am sure. Once you have a DA40 sign off you will feel comfortable flying the KIS4 and I am confident you will not have any problems. We have flow together so I know what to expect.
3. If I feel confident to do so then I will but I don't want to regret that first flight either.



THAT is the best way to approach the 1st flight. You can make that final decision after completing steps 1 & 2.
On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 2:44 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:
Galin,
I like your three step process and I will reserve judgement on Step-3 until after I have completed Steps 1 and 2. 
1.  Does it have to be a DA40 or would a Gruman Tiger substitute?  I only know of one place in DFW with the DA40 and they are way on the wrong side of DFW.
2. Are you SURE you want me flying your plane?  I have been with you so you know how rusty I was on the rudder.  Seriously, I would really appreciate that.  It would give me a chance to get to know the plane and the Dynon at the same time.
3. If I feel confident to do so then I will but I don't want to regret that first flight either.
Bob

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>
To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: Wing walk


Bob; We can get you current and qualified to do the flights. We did that for Ed Hanson and he fully enjoyed being the 1st person to fly his creation. Once you have the airworthiness certificate in hand it is a simple 3 step process that even the insurance company said was acceptable:
Step 1 - Get 10hrs of dual and an instructor "sign off" in a DA40. This should be easy to do in your area.
Step 2 - Visit St. Augustine for a few days and get 5hrs of KIS4 "orientation" with me. I can't sign as an instructor but with all my KIS4 hours can get you real comfortable with the airframe and the insurance company agreed with this.
Step 3 - Go back to Lancaster and you enjoy the fruits of your hard work by making the flight(s).

You will always regret not doing the first flight in your airplane.
Virus-free. www.avg.com [url=https://mg.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.partner=sbc&.rand=3tnenns12up77#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2][/url]
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:
Galin,

It's done, has been done for a couple of weeks.  I hated it at first but now I just look at it as one more step behind me.  I posted a photo to the Facebook group showing current status including the GPS antenna.  Hell, it just looks like a wart on the top of the plane.  (BG)  Got a lot of wiring to do this weekend and waiting for the FLYEFII system to arrive.  Received all the engine sensors so I can start on them.  Also have the Dynon Adahrs with pitot and static lines to install this weekend.

I estimate about 160 hours of actual work remaining on the plane and a8424184955011651065yui_3_16_0_1_1504199798956_6300" dir="ltr">
I am looking for a good Test Pilot to do the first 5 hours.  I know I am not current or qualified to do8424184955011651065yui_3_16_0_1_1504199798956_6335" dir="ltr">
Know anyone Galin....Hint, Hint?

Bob
PS:  Sure glad you weren't still in Houston during all of the current disaster.

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 1:13 PM Subject: Re: Wing walk


Take it from someone who has studies and worked in RF propagation for over 40yrs, it makes no noticeable difference. Otherwise fiberglass radomes would not exist over the majority of radar sites/installations. But if it is done then don't worry about it and continue forward. Except for aesthetics, there will be little to no difference in aerodynamics or RF reception and we all want to see your bird flying. 
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:

Quote:
Galin,

I had planned and purchased the GPS-2020 prior to mounting the overhead console with every intent to mount it inside the overhead console but then I read the following.
The SV-GPS-2020 is limited to ground speeds of 400 knots and below. To meet the integrity level required for an ADS-B position source, the SV-GPS-2020 needs a stronger GPS signal than the SV-GPS-250 and may not work acceptably unless mounted on the outside of the aircraft.
I called Dynon to confirm their recommendation included fiberglass aircraft and they confirmed.  They did say that it "might" work ok and I could try it and if not acceptable then move to the outside.  Personally, I am TIRED of mounting, dismounting, mounting and repeating.  I mounted the GPS antenna on the outside top just behind the back of the doors.  I wired and upholstered the overhead and it's IN and done, hopefully to stay in for a long time.

Bob

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:28 AM Subject: Re: Wing walk


What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals.
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:

Quote:
Al,

Totally agree with everything you said.  I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow.  I cringed at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside.  I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional.  As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever  imagine and still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect.  My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible.  If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell.  Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly.

I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur upholstery work.  The lower cowling has already and will continue to get some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time.  As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight.   That once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire thing but not now.  I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection.
Bob Reed

PS:  I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years.  I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it.


From: Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> To: kisbuilders <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: Wing walk
A few thoughts:A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple".  The same could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines.
I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step.  That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size shoe or wore heels?

I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Galin's pics).  If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with a grit mixture can be used.
Al

<fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)> wrote: > > gave

























- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> KIS-List All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group