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Bill1200

Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 111
Location: medford oregon

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:14 pm Post subject: WON'T START

1982 Yak 52



Has always been difficult to start. Cold weather almost impossible without 2-3 tanks of air added. warm weather still difficult. 

Have tried different priming techniques found online, no help.



Fuel pressure guage never stays in green during system side prime. Cylinder prime floods after 4-5 pumps, as evidenced by gas coming out the oil drain (add on to help prevent hydraulic lock)



question: should the fuel pressure stay in the green with system side prime



Any bullet proof starting techniques would be appreciated



Additional info: runs great once it starts. will start fine if I go somewhere and park briefly. Park overnight and same hard start. Fresh annual one month ago

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:28 pm Post subject: WON'T START

Have you tried the starting procedure on my web site?  See attached.

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 10/1/2017 5:14 PM, Bill1200 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 1982 Yak 52



 Has always been difficult to start. Cold weather almost impossible without 2-3 tanks of air added. warm weather still difficult.

 Have tried different priming techniques found online, no help.



 Fuel pressure guage never stays in green during system side prime. Cylinder prime floods after 4-5 pumps, as evidenced by gas coming out the oil drain (add on to help prevent hydraulic lock)



 question: should the fuel pressure stay in the green with system side prime



 Any bullet proof starting techniques would be appreciated



 Additional info: runs great once it starts. will start fine if I go somewhere and park briefly. Park overnight and same hard start. Fresh annual one month ago





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473242#473242

Engine_Start-Up_Procedure.pdf

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Engine_Start-Up_Procedure.pdf

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Bill1200

Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 111
Location: medford oregon

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: WON'T START

I have Dennis and in the winter I would use your technique after warming the engine for 20-30 minutes with a propane heater, seemed to help but was never totally reliable.

What is your input on the fuel pressure gauge not staying in the green while priming the system side? Thanks

hkgibby(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:48 pm Post subject: WON'T START

Bill-



Do you prime while hitting start button?  That will always help;  crack the throttle open just a bit more?... also check the air distributor check valves at each cylinder (where the metal pipes end from the distributor) as they can corrode and block/leak starting air; the QDF-1 start solenoid lower half can be a source of bad/no starts and can leak air or not open properly due to corrosion.  I would confirm that the QDF-1 is operating properly first when you hit the start button.  Next would be the start coil/shower of sparks which might be weak for some reason.  New and properly gapped spark plugs?  Air, Fuel and Spark;  has to be one of those three things...probably a simple system fix or tweak of your starting technique that others can chime in with advice.



Hoot



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Oct 1, 2017, at 5:14 PM, Bill1200 <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 1982 Yak 52

 

 Has always been difficult to start. Cold weather almost impossible without 2-3 tanks of air added. warm weather still difficult. 

 Have tried different priming techniques found online, no help.

 

 Fuel pressure guage never stays in green during system side prime. Cylinder prime floods after 4-5 pumps, as evidenced by gas coming out the oil drain (add on to help prevent hydraulic lock)

 

 question: should the fuel pressure stay in the green with system side prime

 

 Any bullet proof starting techniques would be appreciated

 

 Additional info: runs great once it starts. will start fine if I go somewhere and park briefly. Park overnight and same hard start. Fresh annual one month ago

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473242#473242

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:57 pm Post subject: WON'T START

That shouldn't be a problem.

I'd suggest you may want to first test and then maybe replace the starting coil wire from the starting coil to the left mag.  You can test it with two people.  Remove the starting coil wire from the left magneto.  Next, bleed ALL the air off using the brake handle WITH the main air valve turned off.  ie: until you not longer can hear the "woosh" sound when you squeeze and release the brake handle.  Now, with a pair of plies with rubber grips, have the second person hold the tip of the starting coil wire off of any metal attached to the engine about 3/8-1/2".  Next, turn on the battery and ignition switches in the cockpits and press the START button.  The engine will not rotate because you have no air forward of the main air valve.  The spark from the starting coil wire should jump to ground at least about 3/8".  If the second person has to hold the starting coil wire very close to ground to get the spark to jump, you should replace the starting coil wire.  It's a 7mm wire.  Not 5mm like the original spark plug wires.  



If after replacing the starting coil wire you still do not have a good, solid, spark that jumps at least 3/8", then the points in the starting coil are probably mounded and need burnishing.

Dennis



       From: Bill1200 <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com>

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2017 5:40 PM

 Subject: Re: WON'T START

  

 

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bill1200" <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com (billdykes52(at)hotmail.com)>



I have Dennis and in the winter I would use your technique after warming the engine for 20-30 minutes with a propane heater, seemed to help but was never totally reliable.



Want is your input on the fuel pressure gauge not staying in the green while priming the system side? Thanks



Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473245#473245



_-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,



http://www.m=================



http://wiki.matronics.com====================



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Bill1200

Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 111
Location: medford oregon

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: WON'T START

Hoot, yes I have always needed to prime a couple of times ONCE it kicks over. But even with the blades spinning now I don't even get a partial firing, prop just spins

Bill1200

Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 111
Location: medford oregon

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: WON'T START

Thanks Dennis, I'll try tomorrow, and post the results

Dawg

Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 355

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:28 pm Post subject: WON'T START

You primed as someone pulled the blade thru?

I usually pull about 4 blades as we prime. Fires up immediately.

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Oct 1, 2017, at 15:14, Bill1200 <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 1982 Yak 52

 

 Has always been difficult to start. Cold weather almost impossible without 2-3 tanks of air added. warm weather still difficult. 

 Have tried different priming techniques found online, no help.

 

 Fuel pressure guage never stays in green during system side prime. Cylinder prime floods after 4-5 pumps, as evidenced by gas coming out the oil drain (add on to help prevent hydraulic lock)

 

 question: should the fuel pressure stay in the green with system side prime

 

 Any bullet proof starting techniques would be appreciated

 

 Additional info: runs great once it starts. will start fine if I go somewhere and park briefly. Park overnight and same hard start. Fresh annual one month ago

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473242#473242

_________________
Dawg

Bill1200

Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 111
Location: medford oregon

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: WON'T START

Dawg



no, if it's warm outside, I pull the blades, prime the system, prime the cylinders, crank it, if it tries to start I usually have to prime it 2-3 times to keep it running

Dawg

Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 355

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:49 pm Post subject: WON'T START

Its better if someone primes cylinders while being turned. When ready to start a few more shots to the cylinders, (the right) then a few to the left.

With that procedure it will start with as little as 2.5 on the air. If using nitrogen, open the throttle almost half. 



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Oct 1, 2017, at 16:37, Bill1200 <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Dawg

 

 no, if it's warm outside, I pull the blades, prime the system, prime the cylinders, crank it, if it tries to start I usually have to prime it 2-3 times to keep it running

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473251#473251

_________________
Dawg

bwade154(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:45 pm Post subject: WON'T START

Bill Do you have the auto plug conversion and when do you close the oil drain? Mine does not stay in the green after priming system. Is the shower of sparks working i.e. does it fire before turning mags on?

Bill Wade N4450Y

       From: Bill1200 <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com>

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2017 5:26 PM

 Subject: WON'T START

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bill1200" <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com (billdykes52(at)hotmail.com)>

1982 Yak 52

Has always been difficult to start. Cold weather almost impossible without 2-3 tanks of air added. warm weather still difficult. 

Have tried different priming techniques found online, no help.

Fuel pressure guage never stays in green during system side prime. Cylinder prime floods after 4-5 pumps, as evidenced by gas coming out the oil drain (add on to help prevent hydraulic lock)

question: should the fuel pressure stay in the green with system side prime

Any bullet proof starting techniques would be appreciated

Additional info: runs great once it starts. will start fine if I go somewhere and park briefly. Park overnight and same hard start. Fresh annual one month ago

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473242#473242

http://www.matroni=               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS=   --> http://wiki.matronics.comhttp://www.=====

Bill1200

Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 111
Location: medford oregon

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: WON'T START

Yes, auto plug conversion last year

jackpot

Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Posts: 65
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:20 pm Post subject: WON'T START

Check the gap on the spark plugs. I had that once. Reset gap. Problem solved.  Gary



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Oct 1, 2017, at 17:02, Bill1200 <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Yes, auto plug conversion last year

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473257#473257

Bill1200

Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 111
Location: medford oregon

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:52 am Post subject: Re: WON'T START

Update



Checked spark at ignition coil wire, great bright blue spark up to 1/2 inch away from engine block so don't think that is the problem. Cleaned all contacts inside the cap and points



So, now I will  check the plug gaps as noted above. How do I check to make sure the spark from the coil wire is getting to the plugs?



Don't think it's a fuel problem either, gets plenty of gas coming out of intake drain after priming



Stumped!!!!!!!!

jblake207(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:14 pm Post subject: WON'T START

With all the discussion about the primer on a YAK... I have this question about the primer on the CJ:  How does rotating the primer counterclockwise or clockwise on a CJ differ?  I'd heard that clockwise doubles the amount of fuel...true?  JB

From: "Bill1200" <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com>

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 2:52:40 PM

Subject: Re: WON'T START

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bill1200" <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com>

Update

Checked spark at ignition coil wire, great bright blue spark up to 1/2 inch away from engine block so don't think that is the problem. Cleaned all contacts inside the cap and points

So, now I will  check the plug gaps as noted above. How do I check to make sure the spark from the coil wire is getting to the plugs?

Don't think it's a fuel problem either, gets plenty of gas coming out of intake drain after priming

Stumped!!!!!!!!

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473269#473========================

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:05 pm Post subject: WON'T START

Question- is the engine correctly timed?  What is the point gap on each mag?  How many degrees BTDC are the mags timed?  

Dennis



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Oct 2, 2017, at 3:52 PM, Bill1200 <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Update

 

 Checked spark at ignition coil wire, great bright blue spark up to 1/2 inch away from engine block so don't think that is the problem. Cleaned all contacts inside the cap and points

 

 So, now I will  check the plug gaps as noted above. How do I check to make sure the spark from the coil wire is getting to the plugs?

 

 Don't think it's a fuel problem either, gets plenty of gas coming out of intake drain after priming

 

 Stumped!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473269#473269

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:08 pm Post subject: WON'T START

One last thing. Is the rotor properly positioned when the points open?  This is very important. 

Dennis



Sent from my iPhone



On Oct 2, 2017, at 4:13 PM, JON <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  With all the discussion about the primer on a YAK... I have this question about the primer on the CJ:  How does rotating the primer counterclockwise or clockwise on a CJ differ?  I'd heard that clockwise doubles the amount of fuel...true?  JB



From: "Bill1200" <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com (billdykes52(at)hotmail.com)>

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 2:52:40 PM

Subject: Re: WON'T START

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bill1200" <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com (billdykes52(at)hotmail.com)>

Update

Checked spark at ignition coil wire, great bright blue spark up to 1/2 inch away from engine block so don't think that is the problem. Cleaned all contacts inside the cap and points

So, now I will  check the plug gaps as noted above. How do I check to make sure the spark from the coil wire is getting to the plugs?

Don't think it's a fuel problem either, gets plenty of gas coming out of intake drain after priming

Stumped!!!!!!!!

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473269#473========================

Bill1200

Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 111
Location: medford oregon

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: WON'T START

second update 

went back to airport about 2 hours after this morning's failed attempts, started right up after only 2 pumps prime (was concerned this might be an overprime  problem) 



To answer your question, the timing was not done on the last annual so I don't know, but as stated it runs great once it starts. That being said, would it run at all if the rotor was not on correctly?



When I do the runup, the mags have always dropped what I felt was excessive, but was told it wasn't a big enough deal to adjust. RPM drop 5-6% both sides identical

wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:53 pm Post subject: WON'T START

Hi Jon;

  

 The CJ primer is essentially identical to itâ€™s Russian counterpart.   It is the CJ fuel system that is different in that the Emergency fuel supply is  provided by a hand operated wobble pump.   As a result there is no  need for the second function of the primer unit (Emergency fuel  pump).   With the simple addition of a jumper line (by the factory)  connecting the two output ports it became an engine primer only from either  side.  No, it does  not  change the output fuel quantity.



  Could  be converted to work in the â€˜52 system by simply removing the  jumper.



   



 After reading about Bill Dykes starting problems I wonder if over-priming  may have something to do with it and if everyone involved is fully aware of the  danger of hydraulic lock from that source.

  

 Walt

  

From:  JON (jblake207(at)comcast.net)    Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 1:13 PM

 To: Yak-List (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Re: WON'T START

  



   With all the discussion about the primer on a YAK... I have this question  about the primer on the CJ:  How does rotating the primer counterclockwise  or clockwise on a CJ differ?  I'd heard that clockwise doubles the amount  of fuel...true?  JB



  

  

   From:  "Bill1200" <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com>

To:  yak-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 2:52:40  PM

Subject: Re: WON'T START

  

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bill1200"  <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com>

  

Update

  

Checked spark at ignition coil wire, great bright blue spark up  to 1/2 inch away from engine block so don't think that is the problem. Cleaned  all contacts inside the cap and points

  

So, now I will  check the plug gaps as noted above. How do  I check to make sure the spark from the coil wire is getting to the plugs?

  

Don't think it's a fuel problem either, gets plenty of gas  coming out of intake drain after priming

  

Stumped!!!!!!!!

  

  

  



Read this topic online here:

  

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473269#473========================  

  

  



  





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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:06 pm Post subject: WON'T START

Yes, it would run if the rotor was reasonably close to the correct position

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