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Europa Cowl Resin

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kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:25 am Post subject: Europa Cowl Resin

Is anyone able to advise what Resin is used on the Europa cowls please?



Kingsley in Oz

pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:52 am Post subject: Europa Cowl Resin

Hi Kinbsley,

The answer is the same as the rest of the aircraft.

Not the blue stuff!!

Pete Jeffers



From: Kingsley Hurst (kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au)

Sent: â€Ž27/â€Ž10/â€Ž2017 07:33

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Europa-List: Europa Cowl Resin

--> Europa-List message posted by: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au>



Is anyone able to advise what Resin is used on the Europa cowls please?



Kingsley in Oz

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spcialeffects

Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 305
Location: Kent

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Europa Cowl Resin

Kingsley, am I right in saying you have a classic? with classic cowls? If yes then originally the cowls would have been layed up with ampreg 20 which has now been super seeded by ampreg 21



Regards Frank Xuereb kit#165, just waiting testing

Remi Guerner

Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: Europa Cowl Resin

I remember reading somewere that non structural parts of the XS, including the cowling, were made of polyester, not epoxy. I also suppose a high temperature stuff is needed for those parts. Has anyone the right answer?

Remi

kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:36 am Post subject: Europa Cowl Resin

Thank you Pete and Frank and yes Frank, I do have the Classic cowls.



Strangely, the inside of my cowls are still a nice pale green colour with no 

yellowing like other parts of the airframe.  I have always been of the 

opinion they might have some phenolic base in them and when I have cut them, 

I reckon it smelt very much like polyester.



Thanks again men . . . .  onwards and hopefully Upwards!



Kingsley

Fred Klein

Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:12 am Post subject: Europa Cowl Resin

 	  Quote: 	
		  On Oct 28, 2017, at 4:35 AM, Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au (kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au)> wrote:

 I have always been of the opinion they might have some phenolic base in them and when I have cut them, I reckon it smelt very much like polyester.

	


Kingsleyâ€¦I believe youâ€™re correct but have no way to confirmâ€¦F.

Nigel Graham

Joined: 23 Mar 2017
Posts: 36
Location: Winchester - UK

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Europa Cowl Resin

Remi is correct. All the grey coloured components supplied with the original kit (cowls, doors, "D" panel and the speed kit) were manufactured with woven glass and polyester resin. 

If you need a heat tolerant polyester resin for cowling mods, use a "tooling" grade product. These are designed to withstand autoclave temperatures and have minimal shrink characteristics. I use "Optimould".



Hope this helps



Nigel

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:22 pm Post subject: Europa Cowl Resin

Thnks for that info! That means any door strut mods need to be done in poly and not epoxy then? I've not heard that to date....or maybe i wasnt listening 



Cheers and thx,

Pete



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Oct 28, 2017, at 6:57 PM, Nigel Graham <nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk> wrote:

 

 

 

 Remi is correct. All the grey coloured components supplied with the original kit (cowls, doors, "D" panel and the speed kit) were manufactured with woven glass and polyester resin. 

 If you need a heat tolerant polyester resin for cowling mods, use a "tooling" grade product. These are designed to withstand autoclave temperatures and have minimal shrink characteristics. I use "Optimould".

 

 Hope this helps

 

 Nigel

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473917#473917

brian.davies44(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:09 am Post subject: Europa Cowl Resin

My understanding  is that it is perfectly acceptable, and maybe even

desirable, to use epoxy resin on cured polyester surfaces.  It is not

acceptable to use polyester resin on cured epoxy surfaces because it does

not bond well that way round.



Brian



--

Duncan McFadyean

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 218

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:53 am Post subject: Europa Cowl Resin

The pale green colour gives away that the resin is probably Class 2 fire retardant (polyester), which is what I have believed it to be, having been told that by the company that made the Classic cowls; others might be different.

It might also be vinyl-ester, but I doubt it and this resin is now in any case very difficult to track down in Class 2 quality (Dow used to supply it, but don't appear to any more).

Standard Class 2 polyester can be post cured to a Tg of up to 80C, which is more than enough for cowls (other than close to inappropriately fitted/protected manifolds, which can/should be dealt with by other means). There would be other issues under the cowls at 80C to worry about!

Duncan McF.



 

 	  Quote: 	
		   ----Original Message----

From: kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au

Date: 28/10/2017 12:35

To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

Subj: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa Cowl Resin



--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au>



Thank you Pete and Frank and yes Frank, I do have the Classic cowls.



Strangely, the inside of my cowls are still a nice pale green colour with no 

yellowing like other parts of the airframe.  I have always been of the 

opinion they might have some phenolic base in them and when I have cut them, 

I reckon it smelt very much like polyester.



Thanks again men . . . . sp;          - List Contributinbsp;                        &=

Fred Klein

Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:44 pm Post subject: Europa Cowl Resin

 	  Quote: 	
		  On Oct 29, 2017, at 2:07 AM, Brian Davies <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com (brian.davies44(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

My understanding  is that it is perfectly acceptable, and maybe evendesirable, to use epoxy resin on cured polyester surfaces. 

	


Thank you Brianâ€¦thatâ€™s a relief in that Iâ€™d added epoxied mods to my doorsâ€¦which seem to be holding up wellâ€¦F.

kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:32 pm Post subject: Europa Cowl Resin

Many thanks Nigel and Duncan.  You have confirmed my suspicions and  enlightened me which by the way, is not hard to do!

  

 Thanks again men

  

 Kingsley

  

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