 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest
|
 Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:53 am Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
 |
|
Shutting the motor down: Well let's think about that for a second. Have you ever shut down the engine in flight and then tried to stop the prop from spinning? It isn't easy. So in the end, engine at idle, or prop wind-milling, it's still turning and the prop is still going to smack down and shatter (or bend in the case of CJ-6's). Best case, you are still looking at engine sudden stop and tear down more than likely. So while shutting the mags off right before you crunch is OK I suppose, I really wouldn't look at that saving any real money, although it might help save a fire somehow or another.
Gear up or down? A decision with a ton variables and ramifications. In the end, it is the Pilot in Command's call and of course no matter what you do, someone will say it was wrong.
Landing on roads: Some roads are better than others... plan accordingly.
Slightly off topic, but not much is: When to give up trying to make the engine develop power when it suddenly stops doing so? The T-34B had a pressure carb, pretty much the same as ours, although made by Bendix. It also had something called "Emergency Fuel" where fuel from the electric boost pump was fed directly to the primer system. You turned it on with the mixture at idle cut-off and the throttle wide-open. It was full power or nothing, controlled by a switch, and it actually worked pretty well. The UTVA-66 I own has a GSO-480B1J6, also with 6 cylinder prime lines. I replaced the primer pump that was much like what we have, with a Weldon electric fuel pump. I can shut the engine down with carb fuel cut-off, then turn on the electric pump, hit the prime switch and the engine will run.. .and develop power. So it is kind of a copy from the T-34B, but it works, and the thing about Pressure Carb's is they can work really well, right up to the point where they stop working at ALL. I've often thought that a Weldon (or other good electric pump) replacing the primer/system pump in our aircraft, where an electric solenoid valve then allows flow to the primer line might indeed keep the engine running long enough to get it to a runway. Never felt motivated enough to try it but it is something to think about if that type of thing floats your boat.
Mark
--
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:45 am Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
|
|
In a Yak 50 I once had one undercarriage that refused to come down despite everything I tried. So, realising I would have to either land wheels-up – and quite likely cause a fair bit of damage under the aircraft – or with one leg down, I chose the latter, but of course wanted the propeller (then a Russian two-blade) to be in the horizontal position. As Mark says, it was extraordinarily difficult to stop the propeller, and I was only able to do so by putting the aircraft into a much more vertical position than a conventional stall, and then make it horizontal on the air-start!
It is worth saying that the only damage was some scuffing to the wingtip and the aileron on the side where the undercarriage would not extend, since I obviously had full down aileron to keep that wing in the air for as long as possible.
And, I was overhead an airfield with lots of fuel and time!
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
--
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:03 am Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
|
|
Doc,
Of course that kind of decision always remains with the pilot, except if someone else is flying with you, then do you force them to go as well?
Regardless, I believe that these aircraft are built very tough. Proven by the actual film of a YAK-50 that lost all engine oil and then landed gear up in a field and the aircraft was actually recovered and rebuilt. YAK-50's are even more tough and the odds are great that you'll walk away.
The opposite side of that coin is bailing out, your aircraft crashing right through the roof of a home and killing women / children, or onto a car ,a motel, a movie theatre, the list goes on. I don't know about anyone else, but I would have a hard time living with myself if I bailed out of an aircraft simply because I decided it represented a less injury to myself and the resultant wreck ended up killing innocent people. Of course there are exceptions to this. Over nothing but forest, mountains, and other way dangerous stuff, etc.
If staying with the airplane means certain death, then yeah... out you go. Otherwise, I'm staying with the airplane, for a lot of (what I consider) good reasons. Always open for debate of course.
Mark
--
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:19 am Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
|
|
Good advice. Guess how I found out how hard it was to get the prop to stop turning? Not only is it good practice, it is also a lot of fun. Go up to 10,000 feet or so, cool off the engine slowly, and eventually when at idle, kill the mags. Then try stopping the prop. You're going to have to get the airplane right into the stall and hold it there to get it to stop rotating. Then open the canopy, take off your headset and you're an honest to goodness glider. It's a very interesting experience. I've done this at the towered airport in New Bern, N.C. a number of times, and they were more than glad to give permission for a spiral descent to a high key. Of course this is a 7000 foot runway.
Another food for thought item is getting some solid aerobatic training. Aerobatics is all about energy management. So is landing without an engine.
Mark
--
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HawkerPilot2015
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
|
|
I am not jumping out...I am afraid of heights!
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HawkerPilot2015
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
|
|
https://vimeo.com/242882855
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
