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Richard Wheelwright
Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 111
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK
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 Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:47 am Post subject: Throttle cables |
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I’m having to replace my throttle cables, as general maintenance has revealed the the STBD carburettor was failing to advance to fully open. On further investigation it was found that the cable was tight in the outer sleeve. Ok, fully removed the same cable was also kinked at the lever in the throttle box.
Has anyone found a good fix or improvements for this?
In the throttle box the friction setup could also do with some improvement too. When the correct friction is set, the lever does not slide between the friction washers but turns against the nuts instead. Has anyone found a better solution for this too?
The manual suggest not shortening the cables but some may have shortened them. How has the worked out ?
Any UK mods would be helpful, or suggestions to submit a mod. Or maybe a simple fix.
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Richard Wheelwright
G-IRPW
First Flight 24th July 2013 |
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gilles.thesee(at)free.fr
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:07 pm Post subject: Throttle cables |
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Le 19/11/2017 19:47, Richard Wheelwright a crit:
| Quote: | | Quote: | I’m having to replace my throttle cables, as general maintenance has revealed the the STBD carburettor was failing to advance to fully open. On further investigation it was found that the cable was tight in the outer sleeve. Ok, fully removed the same cable was also kinked at the lever in the throttle box.
Has anyone found a good fix or improvements for this?
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Richard and all,
The idea of relying on a spring to ensure throttle opening seems peculiar to Rotax.
The following fix is flying on hundreds of Rotax powered aircraft without any problem :
Replace the cables with piano wires so that the throttle somehow becomes a push-pull control.
This is a definitive cure for kinked cables at the throttle, excessive cable friction, loss of synch etc.
BTW, thousands of Lycoming or Continental aircraft are flying with a push-pull throttle control and no spring.
Hope this helps,
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
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Kelvin Weston
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 90
Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Throttle cables |
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Hi Richard
Attached are pictures of my throttle box.
I found the original design less than satisfactory and made the following changes:
a) Bolt is clamped to box with a large washer either side of the box, a spacer tube and a nut with Loctite to stop rotation.
b) I made two aluminium plates, shaped to fit the box. These stop any rotation and provide a good flat surface for the nylon washers - 2 each side of the lever.
Have not tested in anger yet by it has a really smooth action and the friction is easily adjusted to counter the carb spring by tightening the stiff nut.
More importantly, despite many, many operations of the lever back and forwards, the friction never changes.
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Regards
Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv@kdweston.co.uk |
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Duncan McFadyean
Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:18 pm Post subject: Throttle cables |
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You might want to impregnate the exposed elements of the throttle cables with resin. This stiffens them and reduces the chances of buckling in compression when the throttle is opened more quickly than the carb springs can pull.
Duncan Mcf.
| Quote: | ----Original Message----
From: kelv(at)kdweston.biz
Date: 20/11/2017 21:46
To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>
Subj: Re: Throttle cables
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kelvin Weston" <kelv(at)kdweston.biz>
Hi Richard
Attached are pictures of my throttle box.
I found the original design less than satisfactory and made the following changes:
a) Bolt is clamped to box with a large washer either side of the box, a spacer tube and a nut with Loctite to stop rotation.
b) I made two aluminium plates, shaped to fit the box. These stop any rotation and provide a good flat surface for the nylon washers - 2 each side of the lever.
Have not tested in anger yet by it has a really smooth action and the friction is easily adjusted to counter the carb spring by tightening the stiff nut.
More importantly, despite many, many operations of the lever back and forwards, the friction never changes.
--------
Regards
Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv(at)kdweston.biz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475335#475335
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/throttle_box_3_190.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/throttle_box_2_193.jpg
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Richard Wheelwright
Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 111
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:05 am Post subject: Re: Throttle cables |
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Thank you for the reply’s. There are some good suggestions for the friction within the throttle box. The pictures are always helpful too thank you
I have been looking in-depth at the solid push/pull piano wire option, but it seems to fail in the connection to the the throttle box. There doesn’t seem to be an option for a secure connection eye. One builder suggested just looping the piano wire around a bolt to make a loop for connection. I would not be happy with this arrangement. If any one has any more options they may have used I would be interested in pictures and links.
Many thanks
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Richard Wheelwright
G-IRPW
First Flight 24th July 2013 |
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h&jeuropa
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 634
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: Throttle cables |
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We installed solid wire throttle cables during our initial build and they have performed perfectly for over 12 years, 900 hours. We copied Erich Trombley’s install. Unfortunately we can’t find our original notes or photos. Sorry!
We initially tried to replace the stranded core of the supplied cables with piano wire. The piano wire we purchased came tightly rolled about 6 inches in diameter. We were unable to get the wire straight enough to work properly in the sheath.
We ultimately purchased Bowden cable from Aircraft Spruce (p/n 05-15500). To connect to the throttle arm in the aircraft, we used small round pulleys, AN111-3 cable bushings and wrapped the wire around them and secured them with clamps, we think similar to cable end fitting (ACS p/n 15-06291 or 05-16100). We used adjusters at the throttle box as well as at the carbs, (Lockwood BR03K). We recall drilling out the ID of the adjusters to accept the diameter of the sheath.
Jim & Heather
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erichdtrombley(at)juno.co
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:59 pm Post subject: Throttle cables |
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Hello,
Sorry for the delayed response, however, it seems I haven’t been receiving the Europa List Digest. Thought I would check the Matronics site and sure enough I missed the last week or so of email traffic.
Anyway, as Jim & Heather noted in their post I used a Bowden cable from Aircraft Spruce (p/n 05-15500) and wrapped it around a small round cable bushing,AN111-3, forming a “?” This way the cable ends up on the centerline on the bushing. I can’t recall if I Redux it or soldered the cable to the busing. Has worked without issue for the last 15 years.
Also, using a Bowden cable is in my opinion superior to the Rotax cable. With the latter you must rely on the springs to advance the cable as you can’t effectively push a rope. There has been at least one incident in which the cable kinked when the throttle was advanced too quickly. This can’t happen with a Bowden cable as it is designed for push-pull applications.
Good luck,
Erich Trombley
N28ET
Europa Classic 914
____________________________________________________________
We Say GoodBye To Sally Fields
iflperfecttouch.com
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Richard Wheelwright
Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 111
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:03 am Post subject: Re: Throttle cables |
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Jim/Heather, Erich,
Thank you for the replays, what ends did you secure to the outer cable? I have tried to fix the 6mm ends to a scrap cable and find it impossible to get them to screw on securely.
I’m currently researching UK supply s for the Bowden cables, as of part number you supplied, this is to have them professional reproduced to have the same crimped ends as of the original cables, with solid piano wire, made to the same length as the original too which can be shorted if required. If all works ok I will have to get this through the LAA mod process. It should be an advantage for others too in the uk.
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Richard Wheelwright
G-IRPW
First Flight 24th July 2013 |
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erichdtrombley(at)juno.co
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Richard Wheelwright
Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 111
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:46 pm Post subject: Re: Throttle cables |
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Erich
Currently experimenting with improvement options. I was looking at how different builder have shortened the outer sheath. Removing the 6mm cable adjuster from the carb end of the outlet sheath (now scrap cable) I found it impossible to put the 6mm ajuster back on to outer sheath without damaging it. I agree with you about putting the Bowden solid piano wire through the Europa suplyed outer sheath. This may be the way to go to improve operation of the throttle linkage.
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Richard Wheelwright
G-IRPW
First Flight 24th July 2013 |
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erichdtrombley(at)juno.co
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:11 pm Post subject: Throttle cables |
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Hi Richard,
Attached is a photo of the cable attachment at the carb. As I did not purchase the Europa firewall forward kit, I made up my own bits. I used bicycle brake parts for the cable sheath cut to length. As the O.D was slightly smaller, I used heat shrink tubing on the end to make up the difference, and then safety wired it in place. At the throttle box I used a bicycle cable adjuster and just attached it with a nut to the box. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Erich Trombley
N28ET
Classic Mono 914
____________________________________________________________
We Say Goodbye To Meryl Streep
risingstarnewspaper.com
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5a1a22473a30e22397255st04duc
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adrianburridge(at)gmail.c
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:29 pm Post subject: Throttle cables |
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Awesome, thanks!
On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 6:18 PM Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com (erichdtrombley(at)juno.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Richard,
Attached is a photo of the cable attachment at the carb. As I did not purchase the Europa firewall forward kit, I made up my own bits. I used bicycle brake parts for the cable sheath cut to length. As the O.D was slightly smaller, I used heat shrink tubing on the end to make up the difference, and then safety wired it in place. At the throttle box I used a bicycle cable adjuster and just attached it with a nut to the box. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Erich Trombley
N28ET
Classic Mono 914
____________________________________________________________
We Say Goodbye To Meryl Streep
risingstarnewspaper.com
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5a1a22473a30e22397255st04duc |
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budyerly(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:30 pm Post subject: Throttle cables |
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Guys,
I have run the throttle cables for over 10 years without trouble. I dont normally cut them and run them long and loopy to the carbs. This is hard to do in a mono going through the firewall. Much easier in the Trigear as there is more room.
Of course there are techniques as Eric said: To shorten a cable you must have a working knowledge of how to cap and swag cables, I lead the cable before cutting them and also at the tightening point on the carb throttle lever if the cable has been damaged by the customer.
Find a good bike shop and they can show you how to end cap the cables right. Leading the cable tips is not normally done here in the US but the Germans in Spangdahlem showed me how. I have even used 60/40 solder but lead is better in my opinion. Lead penetrates the cable and keeps the strands from unravelling. It is not easy to do.
Bike shops have 4 and 5 mm swag ends normally, such as the Zimo 50pcs Jagwire Bike 5mm Brake Cable Housing Ferrule End Caps. The Europa cables are not quite the same size, so I use a vice to make a press using a tapered punch to flare or widen the mouth then press in the butt end of numbered drill bits used as a die to open up the 5mm swag ends to properly open up the end cap to slide on the cables. Typically 5.3 to 5.5mm will slip fit nicely on the 914 TCU cable and throttle cables. For the threaded throttle ends, buy new ones from Rotax, Green Sky Adventures or Spruce and avoid the rush. These I think are normally 6 mm. I have never scrimped on tools, so I bought good crimpers and they dont crush the end of the threaded end, or safety wire them on works too...
Most problems in my experience with customer built throttle boxes is the throttle box cable sheaths are poorly aligned where they attach to the fiberglass box. This leads to binding and kinking in the throttle box if the cable has a slight kink in it. It makes a big difference, even if the angle is very slightly off or the cable sheaths are too low and if you kinked the cable a bit. Dont overly tie the cable ends up with zip ties, it just makes for a bind many times.
The solid cable replacement takes care of that, I just never needed them as I rebuild the throttle and bench check the cables for proper operation before install. The choke cable is another problem for another day.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2017 9:08:57 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Throttle cables
Hi Richard,
Attached is a photo of the cable attachment at the carb. As I did not purchase the Europa firewall forward kit, I made up my own bits. I used bicycle brake parts for the cable sheath cut to length. As the O.D was slightly smaller, I used heat shrink tubing on the end to make up the difference, and then safety wired it in place. At the throttle box I used a bicycle cable adjuster and just attached it with a nut to the box. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Erich Trombley
N28ET
Classic Mono 914
____________________________________________________________
We Say Goodbye To Meryl Streep
risingstarnewspaper.com
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Richard Wheelwright
Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 111
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Throttle cables |
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Bud/Erich
Thank you for the info. and pictures which help. I will explore the options that have been suggested from all.
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Richard Wheelwright
G-IRPW
First Flight 24th July 2013 |
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