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landing the Piet

 
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taildrags



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 1599
Location: Medford, OR

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:24 am    Post subject: landing the Piet Reply with quote

Keith: you say you got your tailwheel endorsement in a Cessna 120 but that didn't quite prepare you for landing the Piet. Now that you've gotten some time in your Piet, what would you say was the biggest difference between landing the 120 and landing the Piet? Was it just the sensory overload of the Piet coming down on final in an open cockpit tandem-seat aircraft as opposed to the 120 in an enclosed cabin with side-by-side seating, or perhaps the difference in airspeed control on final of one vs. the other, or perhaps even just the yokes-vs-sticks controls? Just curious.

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Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject: landing the Piet Reply with quote

Oscar,
I think it was a combination of it all. My brain definitely tried to default to, power in right hand and pitch in the left, many times. The biggest thing though was in the 120 you pull power all the way out abeam the numbers on down wind, if you do that in the Piet your gonna land on down wind. I had quite a few embarrassing and scary landings from pulling the power out on final or even in the flare. Finally figured out if I leave about 1500rpm in on the corvair it will just settle down to the runway after you flare.If I land straight and pull power off it rolls out straight and true and only lasts a few seconds.
Thanks,
Keith
Quote:
On December 31, 2017 at 2:24 PM taildrags wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "taildrags"

Keith: you say you got your tailwheel endorsement in a Cessna 120 but that didn't quite prepare you for landing the Piet. Now that you've gotten some time in your Piet, what would you say was the biggest difference between landing the 120 and landing the Piet? Was it just the sensory overload of the Piet coming down on final in an open cockpit tandem-seat aircraft as opposed to the 120 in an enclosed cabin with side-by-side seating, or perhaps the difference in airspeed control on final of one vs. the other, or perhaps even just the yokes-vs-sticks controls? Just curious.

--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop


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taildrags



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 1599
Location: Medford, OR

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: landing the Piet Reply with quote

Keith; I get it now, yes. If I fly a traditional, conventional wide rectangular traffic pattern at my home airport (which has an 8800' runway that is 150' wide), if I pull the power abeam the numbers on downwind, I'll certainly be landing it on downwind! So, if there's no traffic and I'm cleared to land when I'm abeam the numbers, I'll pull power and commence a circling descent to the numbers without squaring off the corners. It will feel like I'm too high and too fast at first, but as I circle the airplane will come right on down if I hold 55-60 (depending on the wind). If there's other traffic, I'll just fly a conventional pattern with long legs and square corners and I'll hold power on, maybe 1700-1800, till established on final and able to judge "high or low? fast or slow?" and make adjustments. I also have the nice option of landing long at my home field, since my hangar is 'way down at the far end of Rwy 32. I can keep power in, maintain a few hundred feet off the runway till I'm well down it and past the turnoff to the main terminal, then ease the power off and put it down closer to my hangar.

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A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: landing the Piet Reply with quote

Hm. I pull power all the way back abeam the numbers in my Piet. Maybe the difference is pattern altitude between our two airports. Ours is 1000 AGL. If you’re interested, I’ve got lots of Piet videos up on Youtube showing my patterns, fwiw.

Happy New Year!

Jeff

--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO
Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Core Director & Research Biologist
Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:17 pm    Post subject: landing the Piet Reply with quote

1000AGL! That will put me at 1500'! Don't you need supplemental oxygen at those altitudes......Any way I'm definitely still learning. I've watched some of your videos, I'll have another look now that I have some time in the plane.
Happy New Year!
Keith[quote]On December 31, 2017 at 7:00 PM "Boatright, Jeffrey" wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Boatright, Jeffrey"

Hm. I pull power all the way back abeam the numbers in my Piet. Maybe the difference is pattern altitude between our two airports. Ours is 1000 AGL. If you’re interested, I’ve got lots of Piet videos up on Youtube showing my patterns, fwiw.

Happy New Year!

Jeff

--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO
Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Core Director & Research Biologist
Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation
--


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Ray Krause



Joined: 09 Oct 2013
Posts: 450

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject: landing the Piet Reply with quote

Oscar,

Great information for those of us who have never flown a Piet. I have many hours it J-3's and Aeronca. They are not quite that bad, but you just don't "cut" the power abeam the numbers.....as many of you know. But if you do, it's FUN!

Ray Krause

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 31, 2017, at 3:44 PM, taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



Keith; I get it now, yes. If I fly a traditional, conventional wide rectangular traffic pattern at my home airport (which has an 8800' runway that is 150' wide), if I pull the power abeam the numbers on downwind, I'll certainly be landing it on downwind! So, if there's no traffic and I'm cleared to land when I'm abeam the numbers, I'll pull power and commence a circling descent to the numbers without squaring off the corners. It will feel like I'm too high and too fast at first, but as I circle the airplane will come right on down if I hold 55-60 (depending on the wind). If there's other traffic, I'll just fly a conventional pattern with long legs and square corners and I'll hold power on, maybe 1700-1800, till established on final and able to judge "high or low? fast or slow?" and make adjustments. I also have the nice option of landing long at my home field, since my hangar is 'way down at the far end of Rwy 32. I can keep power in, maintain a few hundred feet off t!
he runway till I'm well down it and past the turnoff to the main terminal, then ease the power off and put it down closer to my hangar.

--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot;
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop


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taildrags



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 1599
Location: Medford, OR

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: landing the Piet Reply with quote

Keith; I'm with you. I get a nosebleed just thinking about flying my Piet as high as some of these guys do ;o)

Jeff; I think I've watched all the videos you've posted and have enjoyed them all, several times. So smooth on the controls and nary a bobble. I'll have to take another look and see just how far out your downwind track is from the field. On our field, I have several things to watch out for... a long line of big box stores with big parking lots on one side, and the need to stay well clear of the tower, terminal, and airport parking on the other. That puts me a pretty good way out from the runway, otherwise I would fly a tighter pattern and probably do better getting it down without power. I did it all the time back at San Geronimo in TX but that was a little uncontrolled 3000'x40' strip with nice grass on one side and one end, and I could fly as tight a pattern as I wanted (and often did). Pattern altitude now at my home field is 969' AGL.

Back when I was renting a Super Cub here around 2001, we had two runways available... 14/32 and 09/27. If we went up early in the morning when there was no wind and no traffic, we could fly figure-8 patterns and get in a lot of touch-and-goes in a short time without ever getting above about 500' AGL. Take off on 32 and climb straight out, then commence a sweeping left turn onto final on 09. Land, roll out, then power up and climb out. Gain altitude, then commence a sweeping left turn onto final on 18. Or fly right patterns, or mix it up left-right. Now 09/27 is closed and we have a lot more commercial traffic, so nowadays that would never fly (pardon the pun) with our strict tower crew here.


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Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:00 pm    Post subject: landing the Piet Reply with quote

Oscar, that carving approach sounds like the commercial pilot power off 180 to landing. The goal is to pull the power, never add power and land on target -0 or +200 feet. You do a continuous turn ensuring you don't get too low to hit the touchdown point. Being high is ok, you can slip to lose altitude or use your flaps. (Oops, not an Piet option).  If you are low, you are sunk all you can do is do your best to stay at best glide and hope for an updraft. If you have to use power, you fail.


On Dec 31, 2017 5:46 PM, "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com (taildrags(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com (taildrags(at)hotmail.com)>

Keith; I get it now, yes.  If I fly a traditional, conventional wide rectangular traffic pattern at my home airport (which has an 8800' runway that is 150' wide), if I pull the power abeam the numbers on downwind, I'll certainly be landing it on downwind!  So, if there's no traffic and I'm cleared to land when I'm abeam the numbers, I'll pull power and commence a circling descent to the numbers  without squaring off the corners.  It will feel like I'm too high and too fast at first, but as I circle the airplane will come right on down if I hold 55-60 (depending on the wind).  If there's other traffic, I'll just fly a conventional pattern with long legs and square corners and I'll hold power on, maybe 1700-1800, till established on final and able to judge "high or low? fast or slow?" and make adjustments.  I also have the nice option of landing long at my home field, since my hangar is 'way down at the far end of Rwy 32.  I can keep power in, maintain a few hundred feet off t!
 he runway till I'm well down it and past the turnoff to the main terminal, then ease the power off and put it down closer to my hangar.

--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop




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taildrags



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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Location: Medford, OR

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:48 pm    Post subject: Re: landing the Piet Reply with quote

Steve;

Here's the funny part: several times when practicing short-field landings and just trying to prove to myself how close I could put the mains right on the numbers, I've scared myself but only long enough to realize I had just made a spectacular landing. After closing the throttle abeam the numbers, determined not to add power at all costs, keep my eyes focused on a fixed aim point on the runway and make sure it doesn't move up or down in my field of view throughout the turn and round-out to final, only to realize that the airplane was settling... settling... can't pull back on the stick since I'm already right on the bottom and don't want it to fall out from under me.

Hold it... hold it... don't pull up but the numbers are coming up fast-! Give up those last few tics on the airspeed indicator just as the ground comes up and she flares and 3-points just like I was a real flying ace. A scared flying ace ;o) The amazing thing is that the few times this has turned out perfectly without me chickening out and adding just a smidge of power, the mains have touched the asphalt right between the threshold and the numbers, and you can't get much closer to using every bit of runway than that! Why aim for the numbers and give up all that perfectly good runway between the threshold and the numbers? ;o)

Oh, wait. Don't tell the FBO, but one time I put the tires of the 150 onto terra firma about two feet before the threshold, and the terra wasn't too firma there. In fact, the airplane made a sharp bump as the wheels rolled up over the edge onto the pavement of the runway. Then there was the time (or was it two times-?) when I re-shaped the bottom of the 150's tiedown ring by dragging it along the asphalt while using nose-high "aerodynamic braking" to kill excess speed and lift in an attempt to make the shortest landing ever made in a 150 in peacetime. At least I never wore clear through the bottom edge of the tiedown ring.

Flying is so much fun, and landings are the funnest part of all! ;o)


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Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
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