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Nanchang Flap Problem

 
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byronmfox(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:19 pm    Post subject: Nanchang Flap Problem Reply with quote

I'm completely flummoxed !

  1. It began this way.  Several days ago, I noticed that when the front seat flap handle was put in the down position, air came hissing out of the backseat flap valve at a great rate. The latter of course in the neutral position.
  2. With the flap extended, air hissed merrily away until I put the forward flap handle in the neutral position. Works, but not right. Right?
  3. Put the forward flap handle up. Flap retracts as normal.
  4. So what's with the aft flap valve? With the forward handle neutral, the aft flap handle works normally up and down.
So today, I did the following:

  1. Thinking there must be something wrong with the aft flap valve, (although only about three months since purchased new from Doug), I removed it and capped off the three air lines running into it with 1/8 NPT caps.  Thereby, by-passing the aft valve completely.
  2. Now to test the fix. Put the forward flap handle down, and the flap extends smartly. 
  3. Put it up and NOTHING HAPPENS! The flap just stays down. WTF!
  4. Called and whined to Doug. He was perplexed too, but suggested I replace the forward flap valve with the newer one I removed from aft.
  5. Did it. NO LUCK. Same result. Goes down, but won't come up.
Any thoughts? I'm baffled. I keep staring at the  CJ's pneumatic diagram and rereading Craig Payne's air system guide, but no bulb goes off over my ever balding head.

Many thanks,
--
... Blitz
[img]https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B_Mqbj1Pr-xVTXVKN0t1SlVGT2M&revid=0B_Mqbj1Pr-xVcW0vU2crV2hMeVBQdVBmYWlaT0w2cVF3K2xBPQ[/img]

Byron M. Fox
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405


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pennington.construction.i
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:44 am    Post subject: Nanchang Flap Problem Reply with quote

Mr. Fox

In your original scenario with the hissing in the rear valve while operating the front valve and looking at the colored coded diagram on Doug's site it would seem that "one way" the air could escape through the rear valve would be if the diverter / check valve was open for some reason.  Dirt, bad spring etc.
The spring loaded diverter valve is spring loaded shut while operating from the front cockpit and the rear in the neutral position.  Passing air through the diverter valve and to the flap actuating cylinder.  Pressure from the rear flap valve opens this diverter valve so you can operate from the rear cockpit through the diverter valve.
The pink ball in the diagram is seated into the "V" of the valve symbol and the spring symbol is pushing the pink ball against the "V" while operating from the front cockpit.
If the pink ball was not seated in the "V" air would escape from the rear valve while applying pressure to the system from the front.  If you determine that is the source of the problem I know Doug has your new part on hand I just purchased a complete set for my CJ
Hope this helps, if I am incorrect on this maybe someone could give us a hand.

Mark Pennington
N621CJ


On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 1:19 AM, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
I'm completely flummoxed !

  1. It began this way.  Several days ago, I noticed that when the front seat flap handle was put in the down position, air came hissing out of the backseat flap valve at a great rate. The latter of course in the neutral position.
  2. With the flap extended, air hissed merrily away until I put the forward flap handle in the neutral position. Works, but not right. Right?
  3. Put the forward flap handle up. Flap retracts as normal.
  4. So what's with the aft flap valve? With the forward handle neutral, the aft flap handle works normally up and down.
So today, I did the following:

  1. Thinking there must be something wrong with the aft flap valve, (although only about three months since purchased new from Doug), I removed it and capped off the three air lines running into it with 1/8 NPT caps.  Thereby, by-passing the aft valve completely.
  2. Now to test the fix. Put the forward flap handle down, and the flap extends smartly. 
  3. Put it up and NOTHING HAPPENS! The flap just stays down. WTF!
  4. Called and whined to Doug. He was perplexed too, but suggested I replace the forward flap valve with the newer one I removed from aft.
  5. Did it. NO LUCK. Same result. Goes down, but won't come up.
Any thoughts? I'm baffled. I keep staring at the  CJ's pneumatic diagram and rereading Craig Payne's air system guide, but no bulb goes off over my ever balding head.

Many thanks,
--
... Blitz
[img]https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B_Mqbj1Pr-xVTXVKN0t1SlVGT2M&revid=0B_Mqbj1Pr-xVcW0vU2crV2hMeVBQdVBmYWlaT0w2cVF3K2xBPQ[/img]

Byron M. Fox
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405





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byronmfox(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:17 am    Post subject: Nanchang Flap Problem Reply with quote

Thanks for responding, Mark.I did remove and check both of the aft diverter valves. The springs are good and both bench checked with high pressure air from my scuba tank. They seal well.

Blitz Fox415-307-2405


On Jul 13, 2018, at 3:43 AM, Mark Pennington <pennington.construction.inc.1(at)gmail.com (pennington.construction.inc.1(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Mr. Fox

In your original scenario with the hissing in the rear valve while operating the front valve and looking at the colored coded diagram on Doug's site it would seem that "one way" the air could escape through the rear valve would be if the diverter / check valve was open for some reason. Dirt, bad spring etc.
The spring loaded diverter valve is spring loaded shut while operating from the front cockpit and the rear in the neutral position. Passing air through the diverter valve and to the flap actuating cylinder. Pressure from the rear flap valve opens this diverter valve so you can operate from the rear cockpit through the diverter valve.
The pink ball in the diagram is seated into the "V" of the valve symbol and the spring symbol is pushing the pink ball against the "V" while operating from the front cockpit.
If the pink ball was not seated in the "V" air would escape from the rear valve while applying pressure to the system from the front. If you determine that is the source of the problem I know Doug has your new part on hand I just purchased a complete set for my CJ
Hope this helps, if I am incorrect on this maybe someone could give us a hand.

Mark Pennington
N621CJ


On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 1:19 AM, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
I'm completely flummoxed !

  1. It began this way. Several days ago, I noticed that when the front seat flap handle was put in the down position, air came hissing out of the backseat flap valve at a great rate. The latter of course in the neutral position.
  2. With the flap extended, air hissed merrily away until I put the forward flap handle in the neutral position. Works, but not right. Right?
  3. Put the forward flap handle up. Flap retracts as normal.
  4. So what's with the aft flap valve? With the forward handle neutral, the aft flap handle works normally up and down.
So today, I did the following:

  1. Thinking there must be something wrong with the aft flap valve, (although only about three months since purchased new from Doug), I removed it and capped off the three air lines running into it with 1/8 NPT caps. Thereby, by-passing the aft valve completely.
  2. Now to test the fix. Put the forward flap handle down, and the flap extends smartly.
  3. Put it up and NOTHING HAPPENS! The flap just stays down. WTF!
  4. Called and whined to Doug. He was perplexed too, but suggested I replace the forward flap valve with the newer one I removed from aft.
  5. Did it. NO LUCK. Same result. Goes down, but won't come up.
Any thoughts? I'm baffled. I keep staring at the  CJ's pneumatic diagram and rereading Craig Payne's air system guide, but no bulb goes off over my ever balding head.

Many thanks,
--
... Blitz
[img]https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B_Mqbj1Pr-xVTXVKN0t1SlVGT2M&revid=0B_Mqbj1Pr-xVcW0vU2crV2hMeVBQdVBmYWlaT0w2cVF3K2xBPQ[/img]

Byron M. Fox
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405







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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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pennington.construction.i
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:56 am    Post subject: Nanchang Flap Problem Reply with quote

Good Luck if I think of anything else I will reach out. 

Lets us know what you find.  
Mark 
On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 10:16 AM, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Thanks for responding, Mark.I did remove and check both of the aft diverter valves. The springs are good and both bench checked with high pressure air from my scuba tank. They seal well.

Blitz Fox415-307-2405


On Jul 13, 2018, at 3:43 AM, Mark Pennington <pennington.construction.inc.1(at)gmail.com (pennington.construction.inc.1(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Mr. Fox

In your original scenario with the hissing in the rear valve while operating the front valve and looking at the colored coded diagram on Doug's site it would seem that "one way" the air could escape through the rear valve would be if the diverter / check valve was open for some reason.  Dirt, bad spring etc.
The spring loaded diverter valve is spring loaded shut while operating from the front cockpit and the rear in the neutral position.  Passing air through the diverter valve and to the flap actuating cylinder.  Pressure from the rear flap valve opens this diverter valve so you can operate from the rear cockpit through the diverter valve.
The pink ball in the diagram is seated into the "V" of the valve symbol and the spring symbol is pushing the pink ball against the "V" while operating from the front cockpit.
If the pink ball was not seated in the "V" air would escape from the rear valve while applying pressure to the system from the front.  If you determine that is the source of the problem I know Doug has your new part on hand I just purchased a complete set for my CJ
Hope this helps, if I am incorrect on this maybe someone could give us a hand.

Mark Pennington
N621CJ


On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 1:19 AM, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
I'm completely flummoxed !

  1. It began this way.  Several days ago, I noticed that when the front seat flap handle was put in the down position, air came hissing out of the backseat flap valve at a great rate. The latter of course in the neutral position.
  2. With the flap extended, air hissed merrily away until I put the forward flap handle in the neutral position. Works, but not right. Right?
  3. Put the forward flap handle up. Flap retracts as normal.
  4. So what's with the aft flap valve? With the forward handle neutral, the aft flap handle works normally up and down.
So today, I did the following:

  1. Thinking there must be something wrong with the aft flap valve, (although only about three months since purchased new from Doug), I removed it and capped off the three air lines running into it with 1/8 NPT caps.  Thereby, by-passing the aft valve completely.
  2. Now to test the fix. Put the forward flap handle down, and the flap extends smartly. 
  3. Put it up and NOTHING HAPPENS! The flap just stays down. WTF!
  4. Called and whined to Doug. He was perplexed too, but suggested I replace the forward flap valve with the newer one I removed from aft.
  5. Did it. NO LUCK. Same result. Goes down, but won't come up.
Any thoughts? I'm baffled. I keep staring at the  CJ's pneumatic diagram and rereading Craig Payne's air system guide, but no bulb goes off over my ever balding head.

Many thanks,
--
... Blitz
[img]https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B_Mqbj1Pr-xVTXVKN0t1SlVGT2M&revid=0B_Mqbj1Pr-xVcW0vU2crV2hMeVBQdVBmYWlaT0w2cVF3K2xBPQ[/img]

Byron M. Fox
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405









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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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byronmfox(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: Nanchang Flap Problem Reply with quote

Mark, I've looked at your prior emails, but see no telephone number.

Going back to the original event, i.e. with the rear flap handle in the neutral position, put the front handle down, air rushes out of the rear flap handle/valve.

After studying the pneumatic diagram and Craig Payne's air system guide, here's what I think initially was going on. Look at the attached diagram. I think the diverter valve in the down air side is leaking, or jammed. That's the only way, it would seem, that air can  get into the aft flap valve.
Whaddaya think?
Byron
Quote:




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n13472(at)aol.com
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject: Nanchang Flap Problem Reply with quote

Blitz, just O/H both diverter valves. Doug has the parts. I would suspect they have never
been out of the plane since it came from China!


Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
777 Quartz Ave
PMB 7004
Sandy Valley NV.
89019
Cell 541-297-5497
N13472(at)AOL.COM



From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Byron Fox
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 1:13 PM
To: Yak LIst
Subject: Re: Nanchang Flap Problem

Mark, I've looked at your prior emails, but see no telephone number.


Going back to the original event, i.e. with the rear flap handle in the neutral position, put the front handle down, air rushes out of the rear flap handle/valve.


After studying the pneumatic diagram and Craig Payne's air system guide, here's what I think initially was going on. Look at the attached diagram. I think the diverter valve in the down air side is leaking, or jammed. That's the only way, it would seem, that air can get into the aft flap valve.



Whaddaya think?



Byron
Quote:

 




Virus-free. www.avg.com [url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]


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pennington.construction.i
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:27 pm    Post subject: Nanchang Flap Problem Reply with quote

The number is 804 399 4224

Mark

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 1:29 PM Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
Mark, I've looked at your prior emails, but see no telephone number.

Going back to the original event, i.e. with the rear flap handle in the neutral position, put the front handle down, air rushes out of the rear flap handle/valve.

After studying the pneumatic diagram and Craig Payne's air system guide, here's what I think initially was going on. Look at the attached diagram. I think the diverter valve in the down air side is leaking, or jammed. That's the only way, it would seem, that air can  get into the aft flap valve.
Whaddaya think?
Byron
Quote:







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