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Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must?

 
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motoadve



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 123
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:34 am    Post subject: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? Reply with quote

Still looking for a plane , see some Yak 52s and prices are quite a bit lower than CJ6, Would you buy a Yak 52 without the updated wing spar?

Has there been cases of wing separation?

How many hrs are too many hrs on this kind of engines?

Is 500hrs a lot?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:20 am    Post subject: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? Reply with quote

All the 52's in the US that I am aware have the wing mod. I don't
personally know of any failures, but they obviously had a reason for issuing
the service bulletin. I would not want to fly any airplane that did not
have all AD's and service bulletins complied with.

Most people agree that 1200 hour is not an unreasonable amount of time on
the engine. As long as it sounds good, has good compression, and not making
metal, I would have no reservations about flying a 1200 hour engine.

Jim

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motoadve



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 123
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? Reply with quote

One Yak 52 I was looking at does not has the wing upgrade.
The owner said it was overkill.

I guess I wont be buying that one.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? Reply with quote

I agree!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:50 am    Post subject: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? Reply with quote

There has never been a wing failure in a Yak 52. EVER! Including before SB’s 59 and 60 were installed and the airplane was then de-rated to +5 -3G’s without the 2 SB’s.
500 hours on an M14 is minimal. Unless the engine is installed on an unlimited aerobatic aircraft like a Sukhoi 26 etc. where they are operated at only two speeds....wide open throttle and idle.
Dennis

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Oct 5, 2018, at 10:34 AM, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr> wrote:



Still looking for a plane , see some Yak 52s and prices are quite a bit lower than CJ6, Would you buy a Yak 52 without the updated wing spar?

Has there been cases of wing separation?

How many hrs are too many hrs on this kind of engines?

Is 500hrs a lot?




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483614#483614











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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:39 am    Post subject: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? Reply with quote

You are going to find a lot guys on this list who favor the CJ over Yak and vice-versa. I have a lot of backseat time in Yaks as a formation check pilot and ferried one or two. Not much acro in them. I have over 2,000 hours in CJ-6s. A lot of acro time compared to the Yak. I've worked on both aircraft too.

Maintenance wise the CJ-6 is easier to work on. In the Yak things are in tight places and between the firewall and engine is not much room to work. Systems are much the same and a lot of parts are interchangeable. The CJ does not an inverted oil/fuel system thus less maintenance there. It is easier to add long range tanks too and little extras like autopilots. Replacing a run out HS6a engine with a M-14p is very easy and many have done so which ups their valve at least the price of the engine.


The CJ does all the same acro maneuver as the Yak - just not as snappy or quick and often needs to be flown through them. In spins, the Yak requires training with real Yak instructor. The CJ is a bit more forgiving but still need a good understanding. Any verticle maneuvers are very challenging with the small engines and unless the horizontal stab has been re-enforced, tail slides are a no-no.


On cross-country flights, the CJ is far and away more comfortable and cheaper compared to the Yak. In formations, both aircraft are a joy. And the comradeship is more than just the pride in one's own airplane. Now the only Yak I ever considered owning was a Yak-50. BUT you give up having an extra seat. Otherwise, you can tell am a CJ guy.


23 years ago when trying to make my decision between the two, I flew both aircraft. First the Yak then the CJ-6. I suggest you do the same if you can. No matter which you pick at least you'll know which one is the one for you. THEN go look for the cheapest one you can afford.


Jim (Pappy) Goolsby









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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:45 am    Post subject: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? Reply with quote

Not true Jim. There are several 52’s that were imported in the mid ‘90’s that did not have the so-called heavy spar. (SB’s 59 & 60). Carl Hays, when his shop was in San Diego, imported some of them.
Dennis

Sent from my iPhone

[quote] On Oct 5, 2018, at 11:19 AM, Jim Burke <jbyak52(at)gmail.com> wrote:



All the 52's in the US that I am aware have the wing mod. I don't
personally know of any failures, but they obviously had a reason for issuing
the service bulletin. I would not want to fly any airplane that did not
have all AD's and service bulletins complied with.

Most people agree that 1200 hour is not an unreasonable amount of time on
the engine. As long as it sounds good, has good compression, and not making
metal, I would have no reservations about flying a 1200 hour engine.

Jim

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:46 am    Post subject: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? Reply with quote

If you're looking for a roomy, easy/pleasure to fly (no vises), capable of
elegant acro Warbird, the CJ6 is your ticket. If this is an attractive
concept for you, then you'd appreciate the extra power and performance a CJ6
with the BIG Engine (M14-P) coupled with a 3 bladed propeller can offer...

You may want to check out my Big Engine CJ-6A (Sax Machine) listing on
barnstormers.com , you can find it by entering "CJ-6A" on the search tab or
under Warbirds/CJ6 category - once you see the listing, make sure to also
click on 'Display Specs Page' for the long list of other upgrades on this
incredible CJ6...
Sam Sax
Miami, FL
305.215.5599
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Viperdoc



Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:44 pm    Post subject: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? Reply with quote

It’s okay if you restrict your flying to 4 Gs or less.
Doc

Sent from my iPad

Quote:
On Oct 5, 2018, at 10:29 AM, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr> wrote:



One Yak 52 I was looking at does not has the wing upgrade.
The owner said it was overkill.

I guess I wont be buying that one.




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483616#483616











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motoadve



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 123
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? Reply with quote

How reliable are these radial engines compared to a GA engine from Lycoming or Continental?

I know they take oil, but are they pretty reliable? If you have the discipline to turn the prop before starting, check compresions at annual, and fly it often?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:35 pm    Post subject: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? Reply with quote

There have been examples of radial engines running for minutes (eight, if I remember well) when all the oil was already out.
They can run for a long time when one or even two cylinders are completely out (I agree, it depends).

I haven't seen any statistics but I see no reason why a radial should be less reliable than a standard GA engine.
If you do the proper maintenance and take all the necessary precautions before starting.

Only my 2 cents,

Jan (Yak 50)
On 06/10/2018, 05:58, "motoadve" <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr> wrote:



How reliable are these radial engines compared to a GA engine from Lycoming or Continental?

I know they take oil, but are they pretty reliable? If you have the discipline to turn the prop before starting, check compresions at annual, and fly it often?




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483634#483634


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GeorgeCoy



Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 308

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:21 am    Post subject: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? Reply with quote

Are Radial engines Reliable? I would answer that I have some experience with this. I consider Radial engines very reliable. I have had several experiences where the engine suffered major problems and still brought me home.
1. I lost all the oil from a Antonov 2 with a Ash-62 radial (a de-rated to 1000 hp Russian license built Wright 1820) during a ferry flight from Lithuania to Vermont in a Russian AN-2 back in the 1990's. We were on a leg from the Shetland Islands to Reykjavik Iceland over the North Sea. We notice we were losing oil pressure when we were over an hour form the nearest land. The engine continued running with no indicated oil pressure for over 15 minutes. Upon reducing power during the landing the engine seized. We found the oil screen completely packed with metal filings with some chunks thumbnail size.
2. I had a radial keep running despite having the top half of one of the pistons go to the top of a cylinder and staying there! Meanwhile the link rod went thrashing around bashing up lower cylinder walls of the rest of the cylinders. That was in a DC3 with a P&W R1820. The only indication was some extra vibrations. It happened while I was taking my DC3 type rating ride while under the hood and just intercepting the localizer. Passed the test anyway.

I have seen a Yak-52 M14P engine that "swallowed" an exhaust valve. The client flew it to us for repairs just complaining it was running "rough".
Radial engines have only one main bearing, and seem to just keep running. Furthermore, the Russian engines use a bronze alloy for the main bearings that seems to hold up better than the western babbitt or silver bearings.

The only downside of radial engines is the larger frontal area and the fact at overhaul you have a lot more cylinders to overhaul.

George Coy


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Viperdoc



Joined: 19 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:20 am    Post subject: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? Reply with quote

👍

Sent from my iPad

Quote:
On Oct 6, 2018, at 10:20 AM, George S. Coy <george.coy(at)gmail.com> wrote:



Are Radial engines Reliable? I would answer that I have some experience with this. I consider Radial engines very reliable. I have had several experiences where the engine suffered major problems and still brought me home.
1. I lost all the oil from a Antonov 2 with a Ash-62 radial (a de-rated to 1000 hp Russian license built Wright 1820) during a ferry flight from Lithuania to Vermont in a Russian AN-2 back in the 1990's. We were on a leg from the Shetland Islands to Reykjavik Iceland over the North Sea. We notice we were losing oil pressure when we were over an hour form the nearest land. The engine continued running with no indicated oil pressure for over 15 minutes. Upon reducing power during the landing the engine seized. We found the oil screen completely packed with metal filings with some chunks thumbnail size.
2. I had a radial keep running despite having the top half of one of the pistons go to the top of a cylinder and staying there! Meanwhile the link rod went thrashing around bashing up lower cylinder walls of the rest of the cylinders. That was in a DC3 with a P&W R1820. The only indication was some extra vibrations. It happened while I was taking my DC3 type rating ride while under the hood and just intercepting the localizer. Passed the test anyway.

I have seen a Yak-52 M14P engine that "swallowed" an exhaust valve. The client flew it to us for repairs just complaining it was running "rough".


Radial engines have only one main bearing, and seem to just keep running. Furthermore, the Russian engines use a bronze alloy for the main bearings that seems to hold up better than the western babbitt or silver bearings.

The only downside of radial engines is the larger frontal area and the fact at overhaul you have a lot more cylinders to overhaul.

George Coy








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stephen.hayne



Joined: 01 Nov 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? Reply with quote

GeorgeCoy wrote:
Are Radial engines Reliable? I would answer that I have some experience with this. I consider Radial engines very reliable. I have had several experiences where the engine suffered major problems and still brought me home.

1. I lost all the oil from a Antonov 2 with a Ash-62 radial (a de-rated to 1000 hp Russian license built Wright 1820) during a ferry flight from Lithuania to Vermont in a Russian AN-2 back in the 1990's. We were on a leg from the Shetland Islands to Reykjavik Iceland over the North Sea. We notice we were losing oil pressure when we were over an hour form the nearest land. The engine continued running with no indicated oil pressure for over 15 minutes.
<snip>
George Coy


I have to chime in here - I only have 1000'ish hours in GA (mostly in my 310), and about 70 hours behind the Housai in my CJ. Eight months ago (after 4 years of assembly, getting the AW certificate and about 18 hours of initial flying), I lost all oil pressure. I was in the practice area, maneuvering - prop went to low RPM (high pitch), and I turned direct RTB. It took about 5-7 minutes to landing, and I did fly with reduced power, just keeping altitude until I could let down.

Turns out the sump screen was filled with carbon, and the main tank was empty... we did all the post-event inspection type things (plugs, borescope, checked other screens and filter (I have an oil filter system), ground runs, screen checks, etc. - all whistle clean).

I've now flown another 50 hours, checking sump screen for carbon every 5-10 hours progressively. At every check there has been less and less carbon in the sump. Just before this oil change, I found no carbon to speak of. And, the engine hasn't seized. Smile

So, pretty happy.

BTW, many have NOW told me that this was to be expected, during the de-preserving process and running Phillips 25/60... should have checked the screens after 10 hours, I suppose, but at the time, I didn't really understand the "flow" of the oil through the engine. Thought the filter would do it all and that surely 25 hours would be a good first oil change. I know better now.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:39 am    Post subject: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? Reply with quote

Didn’t Sergei over stress a wing at Sun n Fun back about a decade ago? I remember some report when he was added to my insurance back then for flying at OSH in my plane.

Quote:
On Oct 5, 2018, at 10:49 AM, Anthony Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:



There has never been a wing failure in a Yak 52. EVER! Including before SB’s 59 and 60 were installed and the airplane was then de-rated to +5 -3G’s without the 2 SB’s.
500 hours on an M14 is minimal. Unless the engine is installed on an unlimited aerobatic aircraft like a Sukhoi 26 etc. where they are operated at only two speeds....wide open throttle and idle.
Dennis

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 5, 2018, at 10:34 AM, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr> wrote:
>
>
>
> Still looking for a plane , see some Yak 52s and prices are quite a bit lower than CJ6, Would you buy a Yak 52 without the updated wing spar?
>
> Has there been cases of wing separation?
>
> How many hrs are too many hrs on this kind of engines?
>
> Is 500hrs a lot?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483614#483614
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







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k7wx



Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? Reply with quote

I’d say radials are not only reliable but robust. On the way to an event, my M-14P started shaking and the CHT indication slowly decreased to less than 120°. Bottom line was that I lost power in the #4 cylinder (forward cockpit CHT thermocouple location), but was still able to land normally at a nearby airport. Identified the problem as the intake value not opening. A local mechanic fixed this and I flew the airplane home without problems. That was 220 hours ago. What I like most about radial engines is that if something does go wrong, it’s my impression that there’s likely to be more time to sort things out than with a GA engine.

Just my thoughts.

Warren Hill
464TW
Mesa, AZ

Quote:
On Oct 5, 2018, at 8:54 PM, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr> wrote:



How reliable are these radial engines compared to a GA engine from Lycoming or Continental?

I know they take oil, but are they pretty reliable? If you have the discipline to turn the prop before starting, check compresions at annual, and fly it often?




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483634#483634











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Viperdoc



Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:11 pm    Post subject: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? Reply with quote

Very trust worthy if you learn their quirks and maintain them by the TOs. You can lose a couple of cylinders and they will still bring you home. Include losing a mag in that category also.
Doc

Sent from my iPad

Quote:
On Oct 5, 2018, at 10:54 PM, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr> wrote:



How reliable are these radial engines compared to a GA engine from Lycoming or Continental?

I know they take oil, but are they pretty reliable? If you have the discipline to turn the prop before starting, check compresions at annual, and fly it often?




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483634#483634











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