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sam.marlow(at)adelphia.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:31 am Post subject: Windows



I remember reading a post about someone thickening the glue for the

windows, making it like peanut butter. Anybody recall what was used?

Sam Marlow

Fuse RV10

jesse(at)itecusa.org
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:18 am Post subject: Windows



We used micro balloons or flocked cotton fiber, but we didn't use Van's

recommended glue. We used something that a Lancair builder recommended. It

is called FE6026 Parts A & B (part #02-00043). It seems to work really well

and is much easier to deal with, from what I hear, than the stuff that Van's

sells.

Jesse Saint

I-TEC, Inc.

jesse(at)itecusa.org

www.itecusa.org

Fax: 815-377-3694

jeremy.p.harris(at)boeing
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:11 am Post subject: Windows



Another good epoxy out there is West Systems - really easy to use and is

available at most marine supplies. The hardener comes in fast (30 min),

slow (2hrs), and really slow (4-8hrs). Micro balloons and cotton flox

seems to be great for thickening up. Micro balloons work well for

filleting. Cotton worked well for strengthening joints.

Jeremy P. Harris

Integrated Missile Defense

BMDS Architectures Lab

The Boeing Company

Washington, DC

Desk: (703) 414-6057 Dept: AV-2L-B27T

Cell: (703) 627-6500

Fax: (703) 414-6372

MC: 793C-G007

Office: 825B

sam.marlow(at)adelphia.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:09 am Post subject: Windows



Did you use the epoxy with the flocked cotton to install the windows? Is that all that is used to thicken the epoxy, so it doesn't run? Will it work with Van's window glue, or should I just use the West System epoxy, and return the window glue to Van's?

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:58 am Post subject: Windows



As you look at different materials to secure the windows, keep in mind the plexi will expand and contract at different rates from the glues which will cause cracking.  Try to make sure the plexi isn't the weaker material.

 

Michael Sausen

-10 #352 Fuselage

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Marlow

Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 8:09 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: RV10-List: Windows

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:23 am Post subject: Windows



I think he just recommended the Epoxy in general. I would NOT

want to use Epoxy to hold the windows in.

Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170

Current section: Panel Wiring

DO NOT ARCHIVE

Sam Marlow wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Did you use the epoxy with the flocked cotton to install the windows? Is

that all that is used to thicken the epoxy, so it doesn't run? Will it

work with Van's window glue, or should I just use the West System epoxy,

and return the window glue to Van's?

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kellym(at)aviating.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:36 am Post subject: Windows



You might consider the non-hardening variety of PRC that is used for tank

inspection plates. It is what Mooney specifies for sealing all windows in

their production aircraft. The non-hardening version has two advantages,

it is a bit more pliable for expansion/contraction, and it cleans up with

high grade isopropyl alcohol...no concern with damaging the plexi.

Tim Olson said:

I think he just recommended the Epoxy in general. I would NOT

want to use Epoxy to hold the windows in.

Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170

Current section: Panel Wiring

DO NOT ARCHIVE

Sam Marlow wrote:

> Did you use the epoxy with the flocked cotton to install the windows? Is

> that all that is used to thicken the epoxy, so it doesn't run? Will it

> work with Van's window glue, or should I just use the West System epoxy,

> and return the window glue to Van's?

>

> Harris, Jeremy P wrote:

>

>> <jeremy.p.harris(at)boeing.com>

>>

>>Another good epoxy out there is West Systems - really easy to use and is

>>available at most marine supplies. The hardener comes in fast (30 min),

>>slow (2hrs), and really slow (4-8hrs). Micro balloons and cotton flox

>>seems to be great for thickening up. Micro balloons work well for

>>filleting. Cotton worked well for strengthening joints.

>>

>>

>>Jeremy P. Harris

>>Integrated Missile Defense

>>BMDS Architectures Lab

>>

>>The Boeing Company

>>Washington, DC

>>Desk: (703) 414-6057 Dept: AV-2L-B27T

>>Cell: (703) 627-6500

>>Fax: (703) 414-6372

>>MC: 793C-G007

>>Office: 825B

>>

>>

speckter(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:37 am Post subject: Windows



All Glasair/Glastar aircraft use Vinyl Ester epoxy to hold all there windows

in. It works great but the install is different than Van's method.

Gary Specketer

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:23 am Post subject: Windows



If you use the Glastar method you need to be sure to get it right the first

time. We worked with Phoenix Composites to get it right. Probably will use

the same methods for the 10.

jeremy.p.harris(at)boeing
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject: Windows



We haven't used West epoxy to install the windows.  Not that far yet.  Will probably consider the Lancair stuff referenced below... 

 

In general - the West System epoxy is a pretty good structural adhesive.  However, there are lots of them out there with different characteristics.  Some epoxies allow you to mix different ratios of hardener and resin to get cures as hard as a rock or pliable as rubber.  Adding a matrix like cotton flocks just makes the epoxy less prone to cracking.  However, the finish isn't as nice as with micro balloons but you trade finish for strength.  The note about expansion and contraction of the plexi is definitely worth considering...

 

 

Jeremy P. Harris

Integrated Missile Defense                                   

BMDS Architectures Lab

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:55 pm Post subject: Windows



I think the contraction and expansion issue is everything with regards to

canopies, they expand and contract a HUGE amount.

John

[quote]From: "Harris, Jeremy P" <jeremy.p.harris(at)boeing.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: Windows

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:13:47 -0800

We haven't used West epoxy to install the windows. Not that far yet.

Will probably consider the Lancair stuff referenced below...

In general - the West System epoxy is a pretty good structural adhesive.

However, there are lots of them out there with different

characteristics. Some epoxies allow you to mix different ratios of

hardener and resin to get cures as hard as a rock or pliable as rubber.

Adding a matrix like cotton flocks just makes the epoxy less prone to

cracking. However, the finish isn't as nice as with micro balloons but

you trade finish for strength. The note about expansion and contraction

of the plexi is definitely worth considering...

Jeremy P. Harris

Integrated Missile Defense

BMDS Architectures Lab

The Boeing Company

Washington, DC

Desk: (703) 414-6057 Dept: AV-2L-B27T

Cell: (703) 627-6500

Fax: (703) 414-6372

MC: 793C-G007

Office: 825B

sam.marlow(at)adelphia.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject: Windows

I was certain I read about someone, somehow, making the Van's window glue thick as peanut butter, so it would be easier to handle.

 

 Harris, Jeremy P wrote:

 [quote]            We haven't used West epoxy to install the windows.  Not that far yet.  Will probably consider the Lancair stuff referenced below...  

    

   In general - the West System epoxy is a pretty good structural adhesive.  However, there are lots of them out there with different characteristics.  Some epoxies allow you to mix different ratios of hardener and resin to get cures as hard as a rock or pliable as rubber.  Adding a matrix like cotton flocks just makes the epoxy less prone to cracking.  However, the finish isn't as nice as with micro balloons but you trade finish for strength.  The note about expansion and contraction of the plexi is definitely worth considering... 

    

    

   Jeremy P. Harris 

   Integrated Missile Defense                                   

   BMDS Architectures Lab 

   

The Boeing Company

   Washington, DC

   Desk: (703) 414-6057 Dept: AV-2L-B27T

   Cell: (703) 627-6500

   Fax: (703) 414-6372

   MC: 793C-G007

   Office: 825B       

   

      From: Sam Marlow [mailto:sam.marlow(at)adelphia.net (sam.marlow(at)adelphia.net)] 

   Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:09 AM

   To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

   Subject: Re: Windows

   

   

   Did you use the epoxy with the flocked cotton to install the windows? Is that all that is used to thicken the epoxy, so it doesn't run? Will it work with Van's window glue, or should I just use the West System epoxy, and return the window glue to Van's?

   

 Harris, Jeremy P wrote:

   [quote]     [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Harris, Jeremy P" <jeremy.p.harris(at)boeing.com> (jeremy.p.harris(at)boeing.com)  Another good epoxy out there is West Systems - really easy to use and is available at most marine supplies.  The hardener comes in fast (30 min), slow (2hrs), and really slow (4-8hrs).  Micro balloons and cotton flox seems to be great for thickening up.  Micro balloons work well for filleting.  Cotton worked well for strengthening joints.      Jeremy P. Harris  Integrated Missile Defense                                     BMDS Architectures Lab  The Boeing Company  Washington, DC  Desk: (703) 414-6057 Dept: AV-2L-B27T  Cell: (703) 627-6500  Fax: (703) 414-6372  MC: 793C-G007  Office: 825B    --

sam.marlow(at)adelphia.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: Windows

But what about the windshield, it's epoxied in with several layers of glass cloth to the boot cowl. Aren't all RV windshield attached the same way?

 

 John Gonzalez wrote:

 [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> (indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com)   

   

 I think the contraction and expansion issue is everything with regards to canopies, they expand and contract a HUGE amount.   

   

 John   

   

   

   [quote]From: "Harris, Jeremy P" <jeremy.p.harris(at)boeing.com> (jeremy.p.harris(at)boeing.com)     

 Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)     

 To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com> (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)     

 Subject: RE: Windows     

 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:13:47 -0800     

     

 We haven't used West epoxy to install the windows.  Not that far yet.     

 Will probably consider the Lancair stuff referenced below...     

     

 In general - the West System epoxy is a pretty good structural adhesive.     

 However, there are lots of them out there with different     

 characteristics.  Some epoxies allow you to mix different ratios of     

 hardener and resin to get cures as hard as a rock or pliable as rubber.     

 Adding a matrix like cotton flocks just makes the epoxy less prone to     

 cracking.  However, the finish isn't as nice as with micro balloons but     

 you trade finish for strength.  The note about expansion and contraction     

 of the plexi is definitely worth considering...     

     

     

 Jeremy P. Harris     

 Integrated Missile Defense     

 BMDS Architectures Lab     

     

 The Boeing Company     

 Washington, DC     

 Desk: (703) 414-6057 Dept: AV-2L-B27T     

 Cell: (703) 627-6500     

 Fax: (703) 414-6372     

 MC: 793C-G007     

 Office: 825B     

     

     

     

 ________________________________     

     

 From: Sam Marlow [mailto:sam.marlow(at)adelphia.net (sam.marlow(at)adelphia.net)]     

 Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:09 AM     

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)     

 Subject: Re: Windows     

     

     

 Did you use the epoxy with the flocked cotton to install the windows? Is     

 that all that is used to thicken the epoxy, so it doesn't run? Will it     

 work with Van's window glue, or should I just use the West System epoxy,     

 and return the window glue to Van's?     

     

 Harris, Jeremy P wrote:     

     

     

     --> RV10-List message posted by: "Harris, Jeremy P"     

 <jeremy.p.harris(at)boeing.com> (jeremy.p.harris(at)boeing.com) <mailto:jeremy.p.harris(at)boeing.com> (jeremy.p.harris(at)boeing.com)     

     

     Another good epoxy out there is West Systems - really easy to     

 use and is     

     available at most marine supplies.  The hardener comes in fast     

 (30 min),     

     slow (2hrs), and really slow (4-8hrs).  Micro balloons and     

 cotton flox     

     seems to be great for thickening up.  Micro balloons work well     

 for     

     filleting.  Cotton worked well for strengthening joints.     

     

     

     Jeremy P. Harris     

     Integrated Missile Defense     

     BMDS Architectures Lab     

     

     The Boeing Company     

     Washington, DC     

     Desk: (703) 414-6057 Dept: AV-2L-B27T     

     Cell: (703) 627-6500     

     Fax: (703) 414-6372     

     MC: 793C-G007     

     Office: 825B     

     

     

     --

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