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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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 Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:42 pm Post subject: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage |
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the manual mentions sealing the gap with silicone.
is this the best method?
thanks will
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cptimm29(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:04 pm Post subject: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage |
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The best method is taping, Talk to glider pilots, they will be able to put you on the right track. The pressure difference between the top and underside of the Europa wing is even greater than on a glider , which makes proper sealing of the wing root very important. Since my Classic Europa is always hangared, I can leave the tape on for the flying season. Our airport is still covered with a foot of snow.
Cheers, Peter Timm
On 2017-03-04, at 3:41 PM, William Daniell wrote:
| Quote: | the manual mentions sealing the gap with silicone.
is this the best method?
thanks will
|
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ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:30 am Post subject: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage |
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Hi! William,
Lots depends on how often you will be intending dismantling the aircraft ? In my case I used silicone but only allowed it to attach on the fuselage by covering the root fairing with cling film so the bead is retained on extracting the wings. Then you need to consider that the gap closes on the upper surface and opens on the lower surface when the aircraft weight is taken by the lift on the wings. I tried to anticipate the deflection by uplifting the wing tips only to find that the cured silicone wouldn’t allow the re-assembly of the wings!
Perhaps you are considering “ grounded appearances” however you can’t satisfy all the conditions all of the time on such a flexible wing performance coupled to the fuselage in the concept as it is.
The same goes on a trike leg fairing to the underside of the fuselage when the leg is loaded when standing on the ground ?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell
Sent: 04 March 2017 23:41
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage
the manual mentions sealing the gap with silicone.
is this the best method?
thanks will
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 03/05/17
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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budyerly(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:05 am Post subject: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage |
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William,
Great advice from Bob.
You probably saw the Europa Flyer article but the D cell foam tape in that article was called gap seal tape, it is really just a foam window seal. It is neat, simple, easy to replace, and cheap.
The foam seal allows the wing fairing to be installed with a slight gap of 3/32 to inch between the fillet and the fuselage so you dont scrape paint off the fuselage, have to use sticky tape, or loose precious knots due to a poor seal.
I use it on fairings between the fuselage and gear legs (I have fiberglass transition fairings which really cleans up the flow) and the wing to fuselage seal.
Look at my website on drag reduction. Most of your build answers are in that techniques section.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Bob Harrison (ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk)
Sent: Sunday, March 5, 2017 6:34 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage
Hi! William,
Lots depends on how often you will be intending dismantling the aircraft ? In my case I used silicone but only allowed it to attach on the fuselage by covering the root fairing with cling film so the bead is retained on extracting the wings. Then you need to consider that the gap closes on the upper surface and opens on the lower surface when the aircraft weight is taken by the lift on the wings. I tried to anticipate the deflection by uplifting the wing tips only to find that the cured silicone wouldnt allow the re-assembly of the wings!
Perhaps you are considering grounded appearances however you cant satisfy all the conditions all of the time on such a flexible wing performance coupled to the fuselage in the concept as it is.
The same goes on a trike leg fairing to the underside of the fuselage when the leg is loaded when standing on the ground ?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell
Sent: 04 March 2017 23:41
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage
the manual mentions sealing the gap with silicone.
is this the best method?
thanks will
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 03/05/17
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johnwigney(at)windstream.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:25 am Post subject: Gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage |
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Hi William,
Try Bolus tape, this works well. See http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/bowlus.htm Also note that the recommended residue remover is lighter fluid - clean and effective.
Cheers, John N262WF, mono XS, 912S
Mooresville, North Carolina
ORIGINAL MESSAGE
| Quote: | Time: 03:42:58 PM PST US
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)
Subject: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage
the manual mentions sealing the gap with silicone.
is this the best method?
thanks will
|
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:13 am Post subject: Gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage |
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Thanks.
It sounds to me that silicone might even put pressure on the fuselage sides as the weight is taken by the wings.
I am going to find some draught excluder and/or some glidertape.
Many thanks - Will.
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:24 AM, John Wigney <johnwigney(at)windstream.net (johnwigney(at)windstream.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi William,
Try Bolus tape, this works well. See http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/bowlus.htm Also note that the recommended residue remover is lighter fluid - clean and effective.
Cheers, John N262WF, mono XS, 912S
Mooresville, North Carolina
ORIGINAL MESSAGE
| Quote: | Time: 03:42:58 PM PST US
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)
Subject: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage
the manual mentions sealing the gap with silicone.
is this the best method?
thanks will
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| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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alan.twigg775(at)gmail.co
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:33 am Post subject: Gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage |
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I use wide white electricians tape on my gliders.
Regards
Alan Twigg
Bicester Gliding Centre
Sent from my iPhone
On 6 Mar 2017, at 17:12, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks.
It sounds to me that silicone might even put pressure on the fuselage sides as the weight is taken by the wings.
I am going to find some draught excluder and/or some glidertape.
Many thanks - Will.
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:24 AM, John Wigney <johnwigney(at)windstream.net (johnwigney(at)windstream.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi William,
Try Bolus tape, this works well. See http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/bowlus.htm Also note that the recommended residue remover is lighter fluid - clean and effective.
Cheers, John N262WF, mono XS, 912S
Mooresville, North Carolina
ORIGINAL MESSAGE
| Quote: | Time: 03:42:58 PM PST US
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)
Subject: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage
the manual mentions sealing the gap with silicone.
is this the best method?
thanks will
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rehn(at)rockisland.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:07 am Post subject: Gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage |
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Another "off the shell" product I find works well, Ace hardware sells a white vinyl tape that stretches nicely. I remove and replace each "flying season ", very little residue, sticks good and removes easily.
Jerry
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 6, 2017, at 10:32 AM, Alan Twigg <alan.twigg775(at)gmail.com (alan.twigg775(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I use wide white electricians tape on my gliders.
Regards
Alan Twigg
Bicester Gliding Centre
Sent from my iPhone
On 6 Mar 2017, at 17:12, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks.
It sounds to me that silicone might even put pressure on the fuselage sides as the weight is taken by the wings.
I am going to find some draught excluder and/or some glidertape.
Many thanks - Will.
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:24 AM, John Wigney <johnwigney(at)windstream.net (johnwigney(at)windstream.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi William,
Try Bolus tape, this works well. See http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/bowlus.htm Also note that the recommended residue remover is lighter fluid - clean and effective.
Cheers, John N262WF, mono XS, 912S
Mooresville, North Carolina
ORIGINAL MESSAGE
| Quote: | Time: 03:42:58 PM PST US
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)
Subject: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage
the manual mentions sealing the gap with silicone.
is this the best method?
thanks will
|
|
|
|
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:24 pm Post subject: Gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage |
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Thanks
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 1:06 PM, Jerry Rehn <rehn(at)rockisland.com (rehn(at)rockisland.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Another "off the shell" product I find works well, Ace hardware sells a white vinyl tape that stretches nicely. I remove and replace each "flying season ", very little residue, sticks good and removes easily.
Jerry
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 6, 2017, at 10:32 AM, Alan Twigg <alan.twigg775(at)gmail.com (alan.twigg775(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I use wide white electricians tape on my gliders.
Regards
Alan Twigg
Bicester Gliding Centre
Sent from my iPhone
On 6 Mar 2017, at 17:12, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks.
It sounds to me that silicone might even put pressure on the fuselage sides as the weight is taken by the wings.
I am going to find some draught excluder and/or some glidertape.
Many thanks - Will.
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:24 AM, John Wigney <johnwigney(at)windstream.net (johnwigney(at)windstream.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi William,
Try Bolus tape, this works well. See http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/bowlus.htm Also note that the recommended residue remover is lighter fluid - clean and effective.
Cheers, John N262WF, mono XS, 912S
Mooresville, North Carolina
ORIGINAL MESSAGE
| Quote: | Time: 03:42:58 PM PST US
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)
Subject: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage
the manual mentions sealing the gap with silicone.
is this the best method?
thanks will
|
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|
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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BobD
Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 110
Location: Sheffield UK
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:52 am Post subject: Re: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage |
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Having read these posts, I used Bowlus 38mm Maxi Tape for the gap between the wing roots and fuselage when I first assembled my Europa, and it worked great. Come the 50 hour inspection, and after removing and replacing the wings, the new tape I applied both above and below each wing disappeared on the first flight !
I guess one of the problems was using leading edge cleaner to prepare the surface, as this probably made it very slippy. Another may be that it was very cold during installation. I have seen the suggestions to use lighter fluid to prepare the surface, and will try this. Would gentle heat also help adhesion ? Any other tips would be welcome.
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Bob Dawson
Europa XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ || Dynon Skyview || PilotAware || SmartAss3 |
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Remi Guerner
Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:39 am Post subject: Re: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage |
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Bob, I tried the same very expensive clear Bowlus tape for sealing those gaps last summer. This was very disappointing as there were no measurable speed gain, it looked ugly and the tape started to get disbonded and flapped in the breeze after a few weeks. I believe the problem comes from the gaps which move back and forth with the flexing of the wings. It seems to me that the Bowlus tape is too thick to handle the stress caused by this flexing. May be a thinner and therefore more flexible tape would do it better?
Remi
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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:38 am Post subject: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage |
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White PVC tape has always done it for me (& most glider pilots) and I guess it boils down to having a clean surface not covered with non stick polish.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2018-12-30 08:39, Remi Guerner wrote: | Quote: | | Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr (air.guerner(at)orange.fr)>
Bob, I tried the same very expensive clear Bowlus tape for sealing those gaps last summer. This was very disappointing as there were no measurable speed gain, it looked ugly and the tape started to get disbonded and flapped in the breeze after a few weeks. I believe the problem comes from the gaps which move back and forth with the flexing of the wings. It seems to me that the Bowlus tape is too thick to handle the stress caused by this flexing. May be a thinner and therefore more flexible tape would do it better?
Remi
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pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:36 am Post subject: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage |
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Hi all,
I find 1"PVC tape works just fine. Stays put for the whole summer season with no problem. I just clean the adhesion area with water first but very important to make sure everything is very dry before application.
Makes very little difference to performance but looks good. PVC tape stretches to fit 3D shapes quite well if warm.
Pete
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Sent: 30 December 2018 09:37
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage
White PVC tape has always done it for me (& most glider pilots) and I guess it boils down to having a clean surface not covered with non stick polish.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2018-12-30 08:39, Remi Guerner wrote: | Quote: | | Quote: | | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr (air.guerner(at)orange.fr)> Bob, I tried the same very expensive clear Bowlus tape for sealing those gaps last summer. This was very disappointing as there were no measurable speed gain, it looked ugly and the tape started to get disbonded and flapped in the breeze after a few weeks. I believe the problem comes from the gaps which move back and forth with the flexing of the wings. It seems to me that the Bowlus tape is too thick to handle the stress caused by this flexing. May be a thinner and therefore more flexible tape would do it better?Remi Read this topic online here: |
0123456789 | Quote: | | Bob, I tried the same very expensive clear Bowlus tape for sealing those gaps last summer. This was very disappointing as there were no measurable speed gain, it looked ugly and the tape started to get disbonded and flapped in the breeze after a few weeks. I believe the problem comes from the gaps which move back and forth with the flexing of the wings. It seems to me that the Bowlus tape is too thick to handle the stress caused by this flexing. May be a thinner and therefore more flexible tape would do it better? |
0 | Quote: | | Bob, I tried the same very expensive clear Bowlus tape for sealing those gaps last summer. This was very disappointing as there were no measurable speed gain, it looked ugly and the tape started to get disbonded and flapped in the breeze after a few weeks. I believe the problem comes from the gaps which move back and forth with the flexing of the wings. It seems to me that the Bowlus tape is too thick to handle the stress caused by this flexing. May be a thinner and therefore more flexible tape would do it better? |
1 | Quote: | | Bob, I tried the same very expensive clear Bowlus tape for sealing those gaps last summer. This was very disappointing as there were no measurable speed gain, it looked ugly and the tape started to get disbonded and flapped in the breeze after a few weeks. I believe the problem comes from the gaps which move back and forth with the flexing of the wings. It seems to me that the Bowlus tape is too thick to handle the stress caused by this flexing. May be a thinner and therefore more flexible tape would do it better? |
2 | Quote: | | Bob, I tried the same very expensive clear Bowlus tape for sealing those gaps last summer. This was very disappointing as there were no measurable speed gain, it looked ugly and the tape started to get disbonded and flapped in the breeze after a few weeks. I believe the problem comes from the gaps which move back and forth with the flexing of the wings. It seems to me that the Bowlus tape is too thick to handle the stress caused by this flexing. May be a thinner and therefore more flexible tape would do it better? |
3 | Quote: | | Bob, I tried the same very expensive clear Bowlus tape for sealing those gaps last summer. This was very disappointing as there were no measurable speed gain, it looked ugly and the tape started to get disbonded and flapped in the breeze after a few weeks. I believe the problem comes from the gaps which move back and forth with the flexing of the wings. It seems to me that the Bowlus tape is too thick to handle the stress caused by this flexing. May be a thinner and therefore more flexible tape would do it better? |
4 | Quote: | | Bob, I tried the same very expensive clear Bowlus tape for sealing those gaps last summer. This was very disappointing as there were no measurable speed gain, it looked ugly and the tape started to get disbonded and flapped in the breeze after a few weeks. I believe the problem comes from the gaps which move back and forth with the flexing of the wings. It seems to me that the Bowlus tape is too thick to handle the stress caused by this flexing. May be a thinner and therefore more flexible tape would do it better? |
5 |
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budyerly(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:22 pm Post subject: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage |
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Same here Remi,
As my painter said, Looks like the ass end of hard times.
If one did not plan for using a gap filing foam tape you are stuck with a wrinkled sticky mess.
No matter what you use, it tends to be a pain in the neck.
To get the tape to stick I have had to use paint prep cleaner (kind of a naptha, GoofOff, degreaser/cleaner) called Prep-Sol 3919 by Axalta or Prep-All by Kleanstrip with a very light duty scuffing pad (a graygreen finishing pad by 3M/ Scotchbrite) . The cleaning and just a bit of de-glossing of the 3000 grit helps the Bowlus 2 inch tape stick on quite well even in our hot sun. I only have one client using Bowlus on his motor glider and is not perfect but looks darned adequate and the new buyer is reasonably happy with it. Of course we havent hit any cold weather yet either.
Happy New Year,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Remi Guerner <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2018 3:39:34 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>
Bob, I tried the same very expensive clear Bowlus tape for sealing those gaps last summer. This was very disappointing as there were no measurable speed gain, it looked ugly and the tape started to get disbonded and flapped in the breeze after a few weeks. I believe the problem comes from the gaps which move back and forth with the flexing of the wings. It seems to me that the Bowlus tape is too thick to handle the stress caused by this flexing. May be a thinner and therefore more flexible tape would do it better?
Remi
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cptimm29(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:26 pm Post subject: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage |
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Hi Bud,
I have used surgical tape, made by 3M, trade name BLENDERM, for many years on my gliders and Europa. It lasts for at least one season on a hangared aircraft. It would not be a good choice, if you have to disassemble the aircraft frequently. My last box of 12 rolls of 1" by 5 yards was purchased a few? years ago for $ 25.00 Canadian and had to be brought in by my drug-store. It is semi-transparent and elastic.
My Europa is still for sale, see Peter Timm.blogspot. com. . I will be 90 in a couple of months and am happily flying my Pipistrel Taurus self-launching glider. My Europa is becoming a hangar-queen.
A Happy New Year to you and the Europa community.
Peter Timm
On 2018-12-30, at 3:21 PM, Bud Yerly wrote:
| Quote: | Same here Remi,
As my painter said, Looks like the ass end of hard times.
If one did not plan for using a gap filing foam tape you are stuck with a wrinkled sticky mess.
No matter what you use, it tends to be a pain in the neck.
To get the tape to stick I have had to use paint prep cleaner (kind of a naptha, GoofOff, degreaser/cleaner) called Prep-Sol 3919 by Axalta or Prep-All by Kleanstrip with a very light duty scuffing pad (a graygreen finishing pad by 3M/ Scotchbrite) . The cleaning and just a bit of de-glossing of the 3000 grit helps the Bowlus 2 inch tape stick on quite well even in our hot sun. I only have one client using Bowlus on his motor glider and is not perfect but looks darned adequate and the new buyer is reasonably happy with it. Of course we havent hit any cold weather yet either.
Happy New Year,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Remi Guerner <air.guerner(at)orange.fr (air.guerner(at)orange.fr)>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2018 3:39:34 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: gap between the wing fairings and the fuselage
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr (air.guerner(at)orange.fr)>
Bob, I tried the same very expensive clear Bowlus tape for sealing those gaps last summer. This was very disappointing as there were no measurable speed gain, it looked ugly and the tape started to get disbonded and flapped in the breeze after a few weeks. I believe the problem comes from the gaps which move back and forth with the flexing of the wings. It seems to me that the Bowlus tape is too thick to handle the stress caused by this flexing. May be a thinner and therefore more flexible tape would do it better?
Remi
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