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Very odd gear behavior

 
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jonboede(at)hotmail.com
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:40 pm    Post subject: Very odd gear behavior Reply with quote

Flying a stock CJ, put the gear handle up and small pfffft and the gear stays locked down.

Put the gear handle in down and land, no issues.

Take the bird and put it on the jacks in the hangar. Start with zero air, put the gear handle up, slowly add air from the filler port and the gear comes up just fine.

Ok, so maybe it was just a gremlin... go fly. Air now at full pressure, put gear handle up and pffft ... nothing. Gear stays locked down. Try the read gear handle and small pfffft and gear stays down. Read gear to middle, try front again and gear stays down.

Put the gear handle down and land, no issues.

Any systems geniuses want to take a guess at what’s up??

Jon


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rickkelleyfly(at)gmail.co
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:21 pm    Post subject: Very odd gear behavior Reply with quote

One way check valve from the emer side is bad.

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Oct 6, 2019, at 7:39 PM, Jon Boede <jonboede(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



Flying a stock CJ, put the gear handle up and small pfffft and the gear stays locked down.

Put the gear handle in down and land, no issues.

Take the bird and put it on the jacks in the hangar. Start with zero air, put the gear handle up, slowly add air from the filler port and the gear comes up just fine.

Ok, so maybe it was just a gremlin... go fly. Air now at full pressure, put gear handle up and pffft ... nothing. Gear stays locked down. Try the read gear handle and small pfffft and gear stays down. Read gear to middle, try front again and gear stays down.

Put the gear handle down and land, no issues.

Any systems geniuses want to take a guess at what’s up??

Jon






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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:27 pm    Post subject: Very odd gear behavior Reply with quote

The emergency side check valve is most likely allowing air pressure from
the emergency system to move the diverter valves; thus blocking the main
side.  It's just like opening the emergency air valve and moving the
diverter valves.  Unless you bleed off the air pressure after you close
the emergency air valve, when you attempt to retract the gear, the gear
will not retract because the diverter valve is blocking the main side
air pressure.

A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1

On 10/6/2019 9:39 PM, Jon Boede wrote:
Quote:


Flying a stock CJ, put the gear handle up and small pfffft and the gear stays locked down.

Put the gear handle in down and land, no issues.

Take the bird and put it on the jacks in the hangar. Start with zero air, put the gear handle up, slowly add air from the filler port and the gear comes up just fine.

Ok, so maybe it was just a gremlin... go fly. Air now at full pressure, put gear handle up and pffft ... nothing. Gear stays locked down. Try the read gear handle and small pfffft and gear stays down. Read gear to middle, try front again and gear stays down.

Put the gear handle down and land, no issues.

Any systems geniuses want to take a guess at what’s up??

Jon



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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:37 pm    Post subject: Very odd gear behavior Reply with quote

One other test you can do is, with the main and emergency valves fully
closed, squeeze the brake handle until your deplete all the air/until
you can no longer hear the "woosh" sound when you release the brake
handle.  Next, let the airplane sit for at least 4 hours. Then when you
come back to the airplane, immediately go to the cockpit and squeeze the
brake handle.  If you hear the "woosh" sound again, you'll know you have
either a leaking emergency air valve or as previously mentioned, a bad
check valve.

A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1

On 10/6/2019 10:20 PM, Richard Kelley wrote:
Quote:


One way check valve from the emer side is bad.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 6, 2019, at 7:39 PM, Jon Boede <jonboede(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Flying a stock CJ, put the gear handle up and small pfffft and the gear stays locked down.
>
> Put the gear handle in down and land, no issues.
>
> Take the bird and put it on the jacks in the hangar. Start with zero air, put the gear handle up, slowly add air from the filler port and the gear comes up just fine.
>
> Ok, so maybe it was just a gremlin... go fly. Air now at full pressure, put gear handle up and pffft ... nothing. Gear stays locked down. Try the read gear handle and small pfffft and gear stays down. Read gear to middle, try front again and gear stays down.
>
> Put the gear handle down and land, no issues.
>
> Any systems geniuses want to take a guess at what’s up??
>
> Jon
>
>




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wlannon(at)shaw.ca
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:43 pm    Post subject: Very odd gear behavior Reply with quote

Hi Richard;

Dennis has you on the right track here but I am attaching a sketch with the
location of the the check valve that may have failed internally and is
leaking NORMAL system air into the EMERG. operating system.

That is assuming you did NOT do an Emergency down test prior to flight and
failed to bleed the system as Dennis described.

Walt

--


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draftsjust417(at)gmail.co
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:14 am    Post subject: Very odd gear behavior Reply with quote

Fast question... what's the emergency air bottle gauge reading? Getting any lower, or fluctuating?

Why I ask: years ago I had a similar issue where a check valve on Emer Air side had corroded, letting emergency "down" air 
bleed into the system to oppose the "up" from the normal side. LG wouldn't budge going up.
Replaced the faulty check valve and all was fine afterwards.
Regardless, I'm sure it's a straightforward snag to fix, just got to find the gremlin...
Justin Drafts
N280NC
Seattle
On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 6:15 AM Jon Boede <jonboede(at)hotmail.com (jonboede(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: Jon Boede <jonboede(at)hotmail.com (jonboede(at)hotmail.com)>

Flying a stock CJ, put the gear handle up and small pfffft and the gear stays locked down.

Put the gear handle in down and land, no issues.

Take the bird and put it on the jacks in the hangar. Start with zero air, put the gear handle up, slowly add air from the filler port and the gear comes up just fine.

Ok, so maybe it was just a gremlin... go fly. Air now at full pressure, put gear handle up and pffft ... nothing. Gear stays locked down. Try the read gear handle and small pfffft and gear stays down. Read gear to middle, try front again and gear stays down.

Put the gear handle down and land, no issues.

Any systems geniuses want to take a guess at what’s up??

Jon

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draftsjust417(at)gmail.co
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:15 am    Post subject: Very odd gear behavior Reply with quote

Oop, I see my comments came well after lots of good advice..  Justin

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 4:42 PM Justin Drafts <draftsjust417(at)gmail.com (draftsjust417(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
Fast question... what's the emergency air bottle gauge reading? Getting any lower, or fluctuating?

Why I ask: years ago I had a similar issue where a check valve on Emer Air side had corroded, letting emergency "down" air 
bleed into the system to oppose the "up" from the normal side. LG wouldn't budge going up.
Replaced the faulty check valve and all was fine afterwards.
Regardless, I'm sure it's a straightforward snag to fix, just got to find the gremlin...
Justin Drafts
N280NC
Seattle
On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 6:15 AM Jon Boede <jonboede(at)hotmail.com (jonboede(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: Jon Boede <jonboede(at)hotmail.com (jonboede(at)hotmail.com)>

Flying a stock CJ, put the gear handle up and small pfffft and the gear stays locked down.

Put the gear handle in down and land, no issues.

Take the bird and put it on the jacks in the hangar. Start with zero air, put the gear handle up, slowly add air from the filler port and the gear comes up just fine.

Ok, so maybe it was just a gremlin... go fly. Air now at full pressure, put gear handle up and pffft ... nothing. Gear stays locked down. Try the read gear handle and small pfffft and gear stays down. Read gear to middle, try front again and gear stays down.

Put the gear handle down and land, no issues.

Any systems geniuses want to take a guess at what’s up??

Jon

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ed.kettler



Joined: 27 Oct 2018
Posts: 18
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:02 am    Post subject: Re: Very odd gear behavior Reply with quote

Hi guys,

The emergency system was not activated. Both cockpit gauges show Emergency Air at 55 atmospheres, and they never go down, even after weeks of sitting

Thanks for all of the help! It is much appreciated!

Ed


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carl.benda



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 6
Location: Colorado Springs

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:29 am    Post subject: Very odd gear behavior Reply with quote

Just went through that issue, check valves on the firewall.

Carl Benda

Sent from my iPhone
Quote:
On Oct 6, 2019, at 7:39 PM, Jon Boede <jonboede(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



Flying a stock CJ, put the gear handle up and small pfffft and the gear stays locked down.

Put the gear handle in down and land, no issues.

Take the bird and put it on the jacks in the hangar. Start with zero air, put the gear handle up, slowly add air from the filler port and the gear comes up just fine.

Ok, so maybe it was just a gremlin... go fly. Air now at full pressure, put gear handle up and pffft ... nothing. Gear stays locked down. Try the read gear handle and small pfffft and gear stays down. Read gear to middle, try front again and gear stays down.

Put the gear handle down and land, no issues.

Any systems geniuses want to take a guess at what’s up??

Jon






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