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Log time listener first time caller

 
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bluepilot5(at)yahoo.com
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:50 am    Post subject: Log time listener first time caller Reply with quote

Good morning all from the soggy state of Washington. After many thoughts I have decided to build a Pietenpol but as but I want fly everywhere. Here in this state. I will be flying over mountains and water and large woods. So could someone brass tacks the reliability of the Corvair vs the o-200. Please and thank you.
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William Wynne



Joined: 06 Feb 2014
Posts: 142
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Log time listener first time caller Reply with quote

Mr. Pilot:

Theory: O-200, as a purpose built certified aircraft engine, is more reliable than any conversion engine like a Corvair.

Reality: You can't expect any O-200 for sale for $7K to demonstrate the same reliability as a New, certificated $25K O-200A. (The O-200D at $19.9K does not have the same track record)

Do you like to gamble, particularly with very large wagers? Buy a used engine, don't tear it down, and fly it banking on the idea that the seller said it was 'great'. The wager isn't the $7K, it is your life.

Don't like to gamble? If you are willing to invest time to learn and get your hands dirty, I can show you how to build a $7K Corvair that is far more reliable than the great majority of used O-200s at the same price.

If you just read this and said "But my buddy bought an engine from Banstormers and it turned out great" You are a gambler at heart, and I wish you good luck. If you just read this and said, "I would rather know what was inside", you are a builder at heart. You will not need luck, which is good because it doesn't exist.

--------------------------------

A VERY importiant story to read about flying in unforgiving places:

http://flycorvair.net/2012/10/22/ed-and-claire-jeffko-a-love-story/
-ww.


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jack(at)bedfordlandings.c
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:39 pm    Post subject: Log time listener first time caller Reply with quote

No Message here.  You must have the same computer Jeff Boatright uses.

Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia

From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bluepilot5(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2015 2:50 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Log time listener first time caller


[quote][b]


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Jeff Boatright



Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Posts: 282

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:48 pm    Post subject: Log time listener first time caller Reply with quote

I resemble that remark!!

Hey, man, I went flying for the first time in 2015!! GOD I LOVE FLYING!!

________________________________________
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine



From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of Jack Philips [jack(at)bedfordlandings.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2015 8:38 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Log time listener first time caller




No Message here. You must have the same computer Jeff Boatright uses.

Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia

From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bluepilot5(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2015 2:50 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Log time listener first time caller


Quote:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:30 am    Post subject: Log time listener first time caller Reply with quote

Both engines can be reliable if built and maintained correctly. My pick would be the 0200, sorry Corvair folks...

Sent from my iPadJack Textor
On Mar 15, 2015, at 1:50 PM, bluepilot5(at)yahoo.com (bluepilot5(at)yahoo.com) <bluepilot5(at)yahoo.com (bluepilot5(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]
Good morning all from the soggy state of Washington. After many thoughts I have decided to build a Pietenpol but as but I want fly everywhere. Here in this state. I will be flying over mountains and water and large woods. So could someone brass tacks the reliability of the Corvair vs the o-200. Please and thank you.

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

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[b]


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William Wynne



Joined: 06 Feb 2014
Posts: 142
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:35 am    Post subject: Re: Log time listener first time caller Reply with quote

JacK Textor:

About 300 years before the Wright brothers, a guy in England wrote a play about the Roman Empire, and the dialog included a timeless bit of wisdom:
.
"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves "
.
The passage is really about resisting elevating a man to divine status who on the basis of observed evidence, was a mortal. It addresses the element in all humans that wants to believe that they can abdicate from difficult decisions if they grant special powers, ie: emperor, certification, etc, to one side and then blindly follow it.

Both engines can be made to work well, The fault dear jack, is not in the metal, but in the people. And the primary fault of the people is granting a used O-200 some special status, because some of the parts on it were once inside a set of specifications called certified. To blindly trust that, or to believe that O-200s without logs or papers still inherently will have advantages over conversions, is the very core of the exact attitude that has cost many people dearly.

The only defense in aviation is Never to grant an engine, plane nor pilot special status that no longer requires you to examine it for what it is. Trust, only on the basis of what you can see and understand, and have verified. This kind of thinking was taught to me by old men, aviators who were alive because the never made 'gods' of things that were just metal systems.-ww.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:49 am    Post subject: Log time listener first time caller Reply with quote

O-200 is turn key by in large. and more expensive
New lightweight (199LB) is $21,000+
older O200 is around 220Lbs+ or -
overhaul to new limits is $13000+ plus core $2-3000
You can do the overhaul yourself and save money.
Lots of certified and uncertified props.
Corvair takes work but is much less expensive
"New" from WW runs $9700 to $11,700 (120HP).
Built up by yourself runs around $5000 to $8000 and is zero time
Weight 225lbs
Corvair engine turns the other way so it needs a"left hand prop" but there are many out there.
Lots of opinions, out there Pro and con.
I would certainly consider either engine. If I ever need an engine I think I will go Corvair and build it up myself for the experience. Plus I would really know how to work on it!
Blue Skies,
Steve D 



[quote][b]


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Andy Garrett



Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: Log time listener first time caller Reply with quote

As a student pilot, I was on my second cross county solo from Wichita to Salina. During that flight, somewhere over McPherson, KS, the certified engine in the 1976 Cessna 150M I was flying (N8634U) started sputtering. This was my first experience with engine trouble and it gave me a pucker. I went to the checklist and did as it said. Carb heat did nothing much but it ran well enough to complete the flight. I could see Salina after-all, and I had numerous off field options, so I stuck with it.

As I started my descent, ATC called and advised me that I had a 747 heavy off my right wing passing under me. I looked out to read 'United States of America' down the length of the President's plane heading out to the gunnery range just to the west. I had not radioed my engine troubles to the tower. Otherwise, they surely would have vectored 'Bigfoot whatever he was calling himself' away from a path directly beneath me (POTUS was obvious not on board).

On the ground at Salina, I called the owner back at Dead Cow International (71K) and described the engine issues. He was convinced it was carb ice, but put no pressure on me to fly it back if I was not comfortable. He instructed me to let it sit for an hour and do a lengthy run-up before taking off if I chose to do so. I did this, and the return trip went fine.

What this experience did to me as a student pilot with a couple dozen hours, was put me in a constant state of awareness. Before that day, I operated on the 'if millions of other people can fly and be safe trusting their rented equipment, then so can I' mentality. After that day, I have not fully trusted any aircraft I've flown. It was even worse flying a Rotax two-stroke while fully exposed in my Airbike. I never really 'relax' when I am piloting. I think if knew the engine intimately, having gained an understanding of what is going on in their, and having turned the wrenches myself--knowing the quality of the components and the workmanship, I would be able to relax just a bit more. I don't want to get back to being blissfully ignorant of the risks like I was as a student. I just want to be more in command of them.

That has been my path to Corvairs and the philosophy that governs the 'movement'.


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Andy Garrett
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Haysville, Kansas
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:00 am    Post subject: Log time listener first time caller Reply with quote

Andy, Friends don't let friends fly two strokes!
Steve D.
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Andy Garrett <andy_garrett(at)live.com (andy_garrett(at)live.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Andy Garrett" <andy_garrett(at)live.com (andy_garrett(at)live.com)>

As a student pilot, I was on my second cross county solo from Wichita to Salina. During that flight, somewhere over McPherson, KS, the certified engine in the 1976 Cessna 150M I was flying (N8634U) started sputtering. This was my first experience with engine trouble and it gave me a pucker. I went to the checklist and did as it said. Carb heat did nothing much but it ran well enough to complete the flight. I could see Salina after-all, and I had numerous off field options, so I stuck with it.

As I started my descent, ATC called and advised me that I had a 747 heavy off my right wing passing under me. I looked out to read 'United States of America' down the length of the President's plane heading out to the gunnery range just to the west. I had not radioed my engine troubles to the tower. Otherwise, they surely would have vectored 'Bigfoot whatever he was calling himself' away from a path directly beneath me (POTUS was obvious not on board).

On the ground at Salina, I called the owner back at Dead Cow International (71K) and described the engine issues. He was convinced it was carb ice, but put no pressure on me to fly it back if I was not comfortable. He instructed me to let it sit for an hour and do a lengthy run-up before taking off if I chose to do so. I did this, and the return trip went fine.

What this experience did to me as a student pilot with a couple dozen hours, was put me in a constant state of awareness. Before that day, I operated on the 'if millions of other people can fly and be safe trusting their rented equipment, then so can I' mentality. After that day, I have not fully trusted any aircraft I've flown. It was even worse flying a Rotax two-stroke while fully exposed in my Airbike. I never really 'relax' when I am piloting. I think if knew the engine intimately, having gained an understanding of what is going on in their, and having turned the wrenches myself--knowing the quality of the components and the workmanship, I would be able to relax just a bit more. I don't want to get back to being blissfully ignorant of the risks like I was as a student. I just want to be more in command of them.

That has been my path to Corvairs and the philosophy that governs the 'movement'.

--------
Andy Garrett
'General Purpose Creative Dude'
Haysville, Kansas




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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439471#439471







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br> enpol-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
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_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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--
Blue Skies,

Steve D

[quote][b]


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Andy Garrett



Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: Log time listener first time caller Reply with quote

Yea, they don't inspire much confidence Steve!

Yet, my buddy Paul just crossed 1000 hours TTAF on his Airbike (built in '97). Two engines (447 then 503), and only one off-field incident due to a stoppage. I think that would be a Rotax success story wouldn't it?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:19 pm    Post subject: Log time listener first time caller Reply with quote

Seriously, two stroke reliability has greatly improved with some of the more advanced monitoring systems and improved maintenance. However, it is still not near the reliability of a 4 stroke.
If I got a 2 stroke ultralight, I would stay near the landing field and/or only fly over lots of good landing places. Still would be a lot of fun.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:27 PM, Andy Garrett <andy_garrett(at)live.com (andy_garrett(at)live.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Andy Garrett" <andy_garrett(at)live.com (andy_garrett(at)live.com)>

Yea, they don't inspire much confidence Steve!

Yet, my buddy Paul just crossed 1000 hours TTAF on his Airbike (built in '97). Two engines (447 then 503), and only one off-field incident due to a stoppage. I think that would be a Rotax success story wouldn't it?

--------
Andy Garrett
'General Purpose Creative Dude'
Haysville, Kansas




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439489#439489







===========
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===========
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_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
          -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========




--
Blue Skies,

Steve D

[quote][b]


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