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mark.t.mueller(at)comcast
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 Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:19 am Post subject: Cirrus Killer? - A36 |
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Cliff,
I appreciate your comments, and I do keep coming back to look at the 'Bo' for my mission; but every A&P I know tries to talk me out of it. They all have the same refrain: 'part$$$'. And the fact is, I just can't get what I consider to be good maintenance support even for my Grumman in the Mid Atlantic region anymore. I know it helps to be an A&P to own a Bo to defer some maintenance costs, but I have yet to have anyone who might potentially maintain my next plain enthusiastically endorse the aircraft from a maintenance perspective...
I guess that rules out the SR-22 as well.
Mark
Time: 08:32:46 PM PST US
Subject: Re: RE: Cirrus Killer?
MessageAfter owning numerous Cessnas and lots of Grummans over many
years, I guess I am biased also after owning my Bonanza and several
others for about 9 years now. The Bonanza does many things as well as
the newer SR22 and Columbia and several things much better.
One thing that stuck in my mind from a recent conversation with a Garmin
test pilot who has flown many hours in both the SR22 as well as the
Columbia 350 and 400 and an A36 Bonanza. He said that the controls are
heavy in both the SR22 and Columbia and both planes are not as fast as
their advertised speeds, especially the SR22. All three of the normally
aspirated planes are pretty close to the same speed but the Bonanza is a
much nicer flying plane when it comes to control effort and response.
I haven't see any SR22's in the back country strips in Idaho where I
t ake the Bonanza.
Cliff
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flyv35b(at)ashcreekwirele
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:59 am Post subject: Cirrus Killer? - A36 |
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I've heard many of these stories or old wives tales about the high cost of parts and maintenance for Bonanzas as well. Agreed, Beechcraft airframe parts are pretty expensive but so are Cessna and Piper parts. And during the 9 years I have owned my Bonanza the only parts I can remember failing are a couple of breaker switches and a little strap that holds the exhaust tailpipe to the firewall. I paid $65 for the first breaker switch and the second I bought from Aircraft Spruce for $15. Same switch but just a different knob. The tailpipe bracket I replace by making a stronger one out of stainless steel and attaching it to the firewall with screws instead of rivets. The other part was a recent rebuild of the landing gear motor which cost me less about $250. The simple fact is there are very few parts that break or fail on the airframe. And the engine, wheels and brakes are all generic parts that cost the same no matter what plane you have.
Another fact is: I spend more time taking wheel fairings off and on and working on the landing gear on Grummans than I do on the retractable gear on my Bonanza. The brake linings last about 3 times as long (granted there are 4 linings on each wheel instead of two) and the tires last twice as long because they are not scrubbing sideways on every landing when the gear legs splay out. My original exhaust collectors lasted for 3800 hrs and they still were serviceable when I replaced them and there are NO exhaust leaks like I fight on Grummans all the time.
I could go on and on but what's the point. No one seems to believe me when I talk about how cheap it has been to maintain my Bonanza. Sure my overhauled engine and new constant speed prop are more expensive than a Tiger for the average person. But I overhauled my IO-520 engine for about $10,000 total parts and machine shop service and did assembly myself and I know you can't do a Tiger for any less if you put on new cylinders.
I think you need to talk to about 6 previous Tiger owners that now have Bonanzas to get another perspective of what the costs are for a more typical owner. I could probably put you in touch with 3 or more.
Cliff
[quote] ---
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jamey
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:36 pm Post subject: Cirrus Killer? - A36 |
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Even if you pay a bit more for parts from time to time there actually seem to be a comparatively large number of qualified, proficient A&Ps out there for Bonanzas just because they're so numerous and have been around for 60 years. I've heard of several shops in Northern, CA in addition to the one I've been going to that are good at working on Bonanzas and for Grummans there's just Gary because the size of the fleet is much smaller. Thus, if you must trade in your Grumman, at least find someone knowledgable with a nice clean Bonanza to show you around it and take you for a spin. The Cirrus and Columbia are great planes too so don't give up on those but the concerns about the Cirrus you pointed out in the earlier email were spot-on strengths of the Bonanzas which is why I brought it up.
Happy shopping!
Jamey
[quote]
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aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:56 pm Post subject: Cirrus Killer? - A36 |
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Where in the Mid-Atlantic are you located? I've found a great A&P IA at Deck
airport (9D4). Good avionics shop too.
If I'm right I have no need to be angry;
If I'm wrong I have no right to be...
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L (at) ILG
----Original Message Follows----
Reply-To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Cliff,
I appreciate your comments, and I do keep coming back to look at the 'Bo'
for my mission; but every A&P I know tries to talk me out of it. They all
have the same refrain: 'part$$$'. And the fact is, I just can't get what I
consider to be good maintenance support even for my Grumman in the Mid
Atlantic region anymore. I know it helps to be an A&P to own a Bo to defer
some maintenance costs, but I have yet to have anyone who might potentially
maintain my next plain enthusiastically endorse the aircraft from a
maintenance perspective...
I guess that rules out the SR-22 as well.
Mark
Time: 08:32:46 PM PST US
MessageAfter owning numerous Cessnas and lots of Grummans over many
years, I guess I am biased also after owning my Bonanza and several
others for about 9 years now. The Bonanza does many things as well as
the newer SR22 and Columbia and several things much better.
One thing that stuck in my mind from a recent conversation with a Garmin
test pilot who has flown many hours in both the SR22 as well as the
Columbia 350 and 400 and an A36 Bonanza. He said that the controls are
heavy in both the SR22 and Columbia and both planes are not as fast as
their advertised speeds, especially the SR22. All three of the normally
aspirated planes are pretty close to the same speed but the Bonanza is a
much nicer flying plane when it comes to control effort and response.
I haven't see any SR22's in the back country strips in Idaho where I
take the Bonanza.
Cliff
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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david(at)carneyaviation.c
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| Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:53 pm Post subject: Cirrus Killer? - A36 |
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# I haven't see any SR22's in the back country strips in Idaho
# where I take the Bonanza.
You probably won't, until they figure out how to parachute in and get the
insurance company to give them a ride out.
Kind of puts a new drift on the concept of a $300-thousand hamburger.
How much will you pay for insurance NEXT year?
How much are you willing to spend for training?
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