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fuel selector, flap control

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mrbizi(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:04 am Post subject: fuel selector, flap control

[quote]  Does anyone know if a fuel selector with left/both/right/off would work (i.e. like a C172) in the Zodiac?   Trying to make the LSA Zodiac XL to train my brother and having a "both" selector would help so he can focus more on the other aspects of flying than worrying about which tank it is on.....

   

   

  Also, does anyone now if it is possible (and where to get it) to put a Cessna notched indent type Flap Selector on a Zodiac?   Again, for ease of use when learning it helps to be able to put a 1st notch of flaps and then focus your eyes outside instead of flipping a  switch.... watching the indicator... waiting for 10 degrees.... then letting go of the switch to stop the flap movement..... then looking outside...

   

  Thanks for any advice anyone might have!

   

  thanks,

     

  

  

  Josh Olson



[b]

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:32 am Post subject: fuel selector, flap control

I recall a discussion about "both" being bad in low-wing  aircraft. Something perhaps about cross-flow between the tanks or problems when  one tank is empty. In general I think you only see "both" on high-wing aircraft.  A real Internet expert will now jump in, tell me I'm full of baloney and that he  flew for 10,000 hours with a both setting on his SR-71, etc.

  

 As to the flap stuff take a look at  this:

  

 http://www.aircraftextras.com/FPS-Plus.htm

  

 And a less-expensive solution - a linear actuator ($70) and  a controller ($50) that remembers preset positions:

 http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006120112260557&item=5-1577-2&catname=

 http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006120112260557&catname=&item=5-1577-C

  

 -- Craig

   [quote][b]

clojan(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: fuel selector, flap control

Boy did we have a discussion on this one when I was doing my fuel system. I went with the both and yes there are some production low wings with both.  One of the problems that arise is that when on both and you are low in the tanks you could suck air instead of fuel from the lower wing in a turn. I use a  placard that says not to use both with less than 1//3 tanks. The other problem is that with both if you do run out in one tank which way do you turn the valve, left or right. It takes a few seconds to start again and if you are close to the ground you may not have those seconds. If you are on Left you know you need right. I tend to switch the tank depending on the landing pattern to use the tank that is the highest in turns. Jack 



   Jack Russell -Clovis CA

601 XL Jabiru 3300

  Progress update at:

 http://www.geocities.com/clojan(at)sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html



 [quote][b]

taffy0687(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:07 am Post subject: fuel selector, flap control

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 Fritz

 ---

mrbizi(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:19 am Post subject: fuel selector, flap control

Thanks for your help!  Aircraftextras is a great site!   Thanks for sharing



Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com> wrote:  [quote]    I recall a discussion about "both" being bad in low-wing aircraft. Something perhaps about cross-flow between the tanks or problems when one tank is empty. In general I think you only see "both" on high-wing aircraft. A real Internet expert will now jump in, tell me I'm full of baloney and that he flew for 10,000 hours with a both setting on his SR-71, etc.

   

  As to the flap stuff take a look at this:

   

  http://www.aircraftextras.com/FPS-Plus.htm

   

  And a less-expensive solution - a linear actuator ($70) and a controller ($50) that remembers preset positions:

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:34 am Post subject: Re: fuel selector, flap control

 	  mrbizi(at)yahoo.com wrote: 	
		   Does anyone know if a fuel selector with left/both/right/off would work (i.e. like a C172) in the Zodiac?   Trying to make the LSA Zodiac XL to train my brother and having a "both" selector would help so he can focus more on the other aspects of flying than worrying about which tank it is on.....

 	




I think the added concern over what to do when the engine stops because he is sucking air out of an empty fuel tank out weighs worrying about which tank he is needs to have selected.



If you want to reduce that concern during the first hours of training then just manage the fuel for him until he has advanced further in learning to fly.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

jhstarn(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:36 am Post subject: fuel selector, flap control

Low wing with tanks ONLY in the wings. (Ercoupe has a header tank filled  from the wing tanks) With selector set at both you "can" have cross-flow  and sucking on a empty tank too. When the engine sputters you must detect which  tank is empty, turn from both to the tank with the fuel. Which one is that ?.  Best guess is yours, how long do you leave it on the tank you think has  fuel before switching to the other one ?. If your looking for stress, you found  it.

 SR-1 "both" tanks, as in two. Opp's... can't tell you how many there are,  (would have to kill ya) but it's a lot more than two. Don't re-invent the wheel.  If the brother has a problem with controlling two tanks & looking at the  flap position think what will happen when he goes under the hood.....and never  let him near a plane with retractable gear... and remember there are  TWO (no "both") latches on the canopy too.    KABONG   8*)   Do Not Archive

 [quote]   ---

mrbizi(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:39 am Post subject: fuel selector, flap control

Jack:

http://www.geocities.com/clojan(at)sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html 

   

  Great website!

   

  Please let me know where you found the fuel selector that has 'both'

  I think I might do the same as you.   

   

  I can manage the fuel when it gets down around 1/3 tank... but for a new pilot like my brother... i'd prefer to have full tanks ALWAYS for him and have a 'both' setting....

  

Thanks,

  Josh

  



Jack Russell <clojan(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:

  [quote]Boy did we have a discussion on this one when I was doing my fuel system. I went with the both and yes there are some production low wings with both.  One of the problems that arise  is that when on both and you are low in the tanks you could suck air instead of fuel from the lower wing in a turn. I use a  placard that says not to use both with less than 1//3 tanks. The other problem is that with both if you do run out in one tank which way do you turn the valve, left or right. It takes a few seconds to start again and if you are close to the ground you may not have those seconds. If you are on Left you know you need right. I tend to switch the tank depending on the landing pattern to use the tank that is the highest in turns. Jack 



        Jack Russell -Clovis CA

601 XL Jabiru 3300

   Progress update at:

  http://www.geocities.com/clojan(at)sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html



[quote][b]    [quote][b]

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: fuel selector, flap control

Josh,



How is training your brother in an aircraft with a dangerous fuel system design in any way a good idea? There are DARs out there that wouldn't even signoff on an airplane with that fuel system.



Tens of thousands of pilots have had primary training in aircraft that don't have a "Both" position on the fuel selector. 



Are you a CFI or a CFI-LS?

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject: fuel selector, flap control

on the flap etting, you can put a cessna type swith, just go to AIrcraft spruce.  OPtion two is to just count 1 one thousand etc, for flap setting.  2 seconds on the 601 xl factory set up is 20 degrees.  ABout as simple as youi can get.  



--

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: fuel selector, flap control

some of the production Tomahawks have a (Both) setting.  in normal level flight with full tanks or with 1/2 tanks, not a problem.  I can see maybe a problem with air suction however that would be a problem on any plane including cessnas.  It all boils down to prefeence.



Juan



--

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject: fuel selector, flap control

Ho by the way my SR 71 has an autosellector. fuel system  since I am too busy burning a hole in the sky.  .



Juan



--

taffy0687(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:08 pm Post subject: fuel selector, flap control

Does a "great website" mean that a person has a great idea too ?  ----------Don't worry after the "crash" we're not allowed to discuss anything about it.    I guess I was taught wrong, I was taught that the pilot was responsible for fuel  management and knowing where his fuel  is.  Installing a fuel system knowing that its design can "suck air" is stupid.  John Denver got killed because the  fuel selector valve (John Denver didn't build the plane) was located in a stupid place.

  

 Do not archive.

 Fritz

 ---

clojan(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:13 pm Post subject: fuel selector, flap control

I spent a lot of time researching fuel systems and talking to alot of people here and elsewhere. You must do the same and make your own decision on how "experimental" you are comfortable with.  I chose a simple fuel system that is working for me  and a lot of others. As far as I am concerned this is the End of discussion. Jack in Los Osos CA

  P.s  It isn't that great of a website.

  do not archive



Big Gee <taffy0687(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

  [quote]        Does a "great website" mean that a person has a great idea too ?  ----------Don't worry after the "crash" we're not allowed  to discuss anything about it.    I guess I was taught wrong, I was taught that the pilot was responsible for fuel  management and knowing where his fuel  is.  Installing a fuel system knowing that its design can "suck air" is stupid.  John Denver got killed because the  fuel selector valve (John Denver didn't build the plane) was located in a stupid place.

   

  Do not archive.

  Fritz

  ---

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:09 am Post subject: fuel selector, flap control

all,



Zenith's news letter #122 dated Jan 2001 has an interesting report from a gent in Switzerland on the fuel tank selector subject He states" Both position is used until 1/2 tank. to assure pilot switches to one tank, blinking light warns of half tank status. Below 25 liters a panel light warns of  low tank.



Any thoughts on a  small fly in at Seabring or is everyone enjpoying their winter in the snow?



Juan Vega

601xl



--

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:21 am Post subject: Re: fuel selector, flap control

Ok, but the OP was trying to make things easier by having the BOTH setting. Having to change fuel management style during the flight isn't any easier.



 	  amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote: 	
		  all,



Zenith's news letter #122 dated Jan 2001 has an interesting report from a gent in Switzerland on the fuel tank selector subject He states" Both position is used until 1/2 tank. to assure pilot switches to one tank, blinking light warns of half tank status. Below 25 liters a panel light warns of  low tank.

--

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

mrbizi(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:17 pm Post subject: fuel selector, flap control

Thanks for everyone's input on this. I've learned a great deal.   I had no

idea that the kit had a preferred fuel selector or the flap control.



I have learned a great deal about the differences between the typical C172

which I'm used to and a low wing plane which I would be learning to fly

myself.



I now understand the point of fuel management with left/right and the issues

that are posed from a 'both' indicator on a low wing that doesn't have an

air channel between both tanks, etc.



I also appreciate the simple 1 thousand 1, 1 thousand 2, etc. for the flaps.

I did not know that the flap control in the Zodiac XL Kit worked like that

and now that I do it helps make something that I thought was more complex,

seem just as easy.



Thank you all for your patience with me and your input so that I could

learn.  



Thanks,

 

Josh Olson

Email:  mrbizi(at)yahoo.com

 

 

--

Martin Pohl

Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 118
Location: CH-8645 Jona SG, Switzerland

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: fuel selector, flap control

For the flap control, look at this: http://www.microel.it/flybox/efc_en.html



You can order it through: http://www.ulmtechnologie.com/



Rgds Martin

Zodiac XL CZAW QBK

_________________
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
http://www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL/Main.html

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