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IVO Prop current limiter
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:44 pm    Post subject: IVO Prop current limiter Reply with quote

At 03:51 AM 12/13/2013, you wrote:
Quote:
Hi Bob,

I stumbled on the IVO Prop current limiter schema searching... an IVO Prop protection device to avoid problems with it Smile

I have an ICP Savannah VG running a 912 wit an IVO ultralight 3blade IFA.

Looking on the forum I saw a lot of message, some very positive, some a little less. At the end I did not understood what is the current status of the project.

I did that design a number of years ago and several
List members endeavored to build it . . . as I recall,
their results met design goals.

If anyone has encountered difficulties, I wasn't aware
of it but I'd sure like to be.

Quote:
Is it OK? Any (possible) and unresolved issue? (I can build it by myself, no problem for this).

Would you be so kind to update ma about this?

I considered making it a product. In fact, I think I
have some proof-of concept ECBs around here somewhere.
The thing would fit into this package except it
wouldn't be labeled 'solid state relay'

http://tinyurl.com/kw3h453


Quote:
Best regards and... Merry Christmas! Smile

Thank you sir . . . you too. I've echoed this to
the List and with an invitation to anyone with good
or bad experiences with this circuit

http://tinyurl.com/pf5w9s2

to jump in and update us on their findings. If the
circuit needs modification, that can be accomplished.
As I said, I think I do have some boards to assemble
one . . . if the project looks like it should move
forward, perhaps your airplane could be the 'beta
test' environment.




Bob . . . [quote][b]


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Dennis Glaeser



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 53
Location: Rochester Hills, Michigan

PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:25 am    Post subject: IVO Prop Current Limiter Reply with quote

I was the requester for that design.
I built it, tested it, and used it for the last few years. Works perfectly!
I recently upgraded to an MT prop, so I sold the IVO along with the current limiter. I don't know if that plane is flying yet.

Dennis Glaeser


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kfav8r



Joined: 20 May 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Norman, OK

PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: IVO Prop current limiter Reply with quote

Hey guys,

I built Bob's current limiter for my IVO prop. My first attempt at it did not work. It seemed to have an issue similar to that reported by Mike Welch some time ago. As soon as I hit the switch in either direction, the motor would turn very briefly, then the yellow light would come on.

I could not figure out where I'd gone wrong, so I built a new circuit from scratch. My second attempt seems to work properly, although I'm still building and my prop is not assembled. With the second circuit, the motor turns normally in both directions. To test the cut-off, I shorted the leads that would normally go to the motor. In that configuration, the yellow LED immediately turns on, and the breaker does not trip.

It will be a little while before I can test it with the propeller assembled.

Bob, this is such a terrific addition to the IVO IFA prop. I greatly appreciate you designing this and making it available. Thanks also to Dennis for his involvement in making it happen.

Doug Garland
Norman, OK


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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:17 pm    Post subject: IVO Prop current limiter Reply with quote

At 03:12 PM 2/6/2014, you wrote:
Quote:


Hey guys,

I built Bob's current limiter for my IVO prop. My first attempt at
it did not work. It seemed to have an issue similar to that
reported by Mike Welch some time ago. As soon as I hit the switch
in either direction, the motor would turn very briefly, then the
yellow light would come on.

I could not figure out where I'd gone wrong, so I built a new
circuit from scratch. My second attempt seems to work properly,
although I'm still building and my prop is not assembled. With the
second circuit, the motor turns normally in both directions. To
test the cut-off, I shorted the leads that would normally go to the
motor. In that configuration, the yellow LED immediately turns on,
and the breaker does not trip.

It will be a little while before I can test it with the propeller assembled.

Bob, this is such a terrific addition to the IVO IFA prop. I
greatly appreciate you designing this and making it
available. Thanks also to Dennis for his involvement in making it happen.

Send me your assembly and let me stroke it
on the bench with a 'scope attached. This
is one of several products I'm hoping will
come to the market after the new AeroElectric
'team' is assembled. I've had offers to
discuss options from several people. In
the mean time, we need to see if a fine-tuning
of circuit constants is called for.

Bob . . .


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papa11(at)centurylink.net
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:17 am    Post subject: IVO Prop current limiter Reply with quote

On 2/6/2014 4:12 PM, kfav8r wrote:
Quote:


Hey guys,

I built Bob's current limiter for my IVO prop. My first attempt at it did not work. It seemed to have an issue similar to that reported by Mike Welch some time ago. As soon as I hit the switch in either direction, the motor would turn very briefly, then the yellow light would come on.

I could not figure out where I'd gone wrong, so I built a new circuit from scratch. My second attempt seems to work properly, although I'm still building and my prop is not assembled. With the second circuit, the motor turns normally in both directions. To test the cut-off, I shorted the leads that would normally go to the motor. In that configuration, the yellow LED immediately turns on, and the breaker does not trip.

It will be a little while before I can test it with the propeller assembled.

Bob, this is such a terrific addition to the IVO IFA prop. I greatly appreciate you designing this and making it available. Thanks also to Dennis for his involvement in making it happen.

Doug Garland
Norman, OK


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418213#418213

Hi Bob if you still have any of the limiter kits available I would like to have one thanks Emil Radtke



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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:33 pm    Post subject: IVO Prop current limiter Reply with quote

Quote:
>Hi Bob if you still have any of the limiter kits available I would
>like to have one thanks Emil Radtke

it was never 'kitted' . . . only a schematic offered.
several have been built and a few folks have experienced
difficulties. We'll track down the 'glitches' and
apply any necessary/useful refinements.

I have a board laid out from which this device can
be fabricated and a housing to enclose it. It will
be one of several products to spin up from the
selected manufacturing partner for the AeroElectric
Connection brand . . .

But in the mean time, see

http://tinyurl.com/ny5jhgr
Bob . . .


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kfav8r



Joined: 20 May 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Norman, OK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: IVO Prop current limiter Reply with quote

Bob,

My problem board is in the mail to you.

Thanks again!


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kfav8r



Joined: 20 May 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Norman, OK

PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: IVO Prop current limiter Reply with quote

It's been awhile, but thought I'd post my latest results with this circuit.

I finally have the engine running on my Kitfox, with the medium IVOProp and the limiter circuit.

With the engine off, the prop changes pitch in both directions, mostly without premature cutoff from the limiter. I measured the current to the prop motor, with readings between about 3 Amps and 9 Amps, depending on the state of the prop pitch.

With the engine (912ULS) running, at any RPM setting, the limiter cuts off prop power almost immediately. I think this is what Mike Welch described some time ago. There is a small amount of pitch adjustment with each switch engagement before current is cut off, shown by small RPM changes.

I've not yet measured the current to the prop with the engine running, but will attempt that.

Doug


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject: IVO Prop current limiter Reply with quote

At 11:09 AM 5/3/2017, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "kfav8r" <kfav8r(at)outlook.com>

It's been awhile, but thought I'd post my latest results with this circuit.

I finally have the engine running on my Kitfox, with the medium IVOProp and the limiter circuit.

With the engine off, the prop changes pitch in both directions, mostly without premature cutoff from the limiter. I measured the current to the prop motor, with readings between about 3 Amps and 9 Amps, depending on the state of the prop pitch.

With the engine (912ULS) running, at any RPM setting, the limiter cuts off prop power almost immediately. I think this is what Mike Welch described some time ago. There is a small amount of pitch adjustment with each switch engagement before current is cut off, shown by small RPM changes.

I've not yet measured the current to the prop with the engine running, but will attempt that.

That idea goes back a ways . . . we started talking
about it early 2011 I think . . .

The 0.1/0.2 paralleled resistors in the source of Q114
offers a current limit on the order of 9 amps.
If the system is 'twitchy' with the engine
running, I'm wondering if we're not getting come
noise into the latch-loop Q103-R106-D110-Q115-
D109-R105.

How is the circuit constructed? Can you post
some pix?



Bob . . .


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Mike Welch



Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:35 pm    Post subject: IVO Prop current limiter Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
With the engine (912ULS) running, at any RPM setting, the limiter cuts off prop power almost immediately. I think this is what Mike Welch described some time ago. There is a small amount of pitch adjustment with each switch engagement before current is cut off, shown by small RPM changes.

The description described above is accurate.  I only found minute pitch changes with each click.


Mike Welch


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kfav8r



Joined: 20 May 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Norman, OK

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:16 am    Post subject: Re: IVO Prop current limiter Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. I'll get some pictures ASAP.

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kfav8r



Joined: 20 May 2012
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: IVO Prop current limiter Reply with quote

Pictures attached...

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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 5:17 am    Post subject: IVO Prop current limiter Reply with quote

At 11:34 AM 5/17/2017, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "kfav8r" <kfav8r(at)outlook.com>

Pictures attached...

Okay, I think I know what your problem
might be. The LEDS in the design are
not mounted on the board and leadwires
out to panel mounted LEDS are subject
to noise ingress and premature tripping
of the stall limiter.

Just for grins, try mounting some
LEDS right on the board and remove the
long lead wires.

In the time since I sketched that idea
out, I've incorporated some new technologies
into similar applications . . . micro-processors.

That IVO prop current limiter could be easily
redesigned to eliminate the naturally 'twitchy'
latching system I used on the original
design . . . gee . . . how long has that
been?



Bob . . .


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kfav8r



Joined: 20 May 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Norman, OK

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: IVO Prop current limiter Reply with quote

I'll give that a shot, Bob. Thanks.

That's what everyone asks me about building this plane, "gee, how long has that been!?" Smile


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Dennis Glaeser



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 53
Location: Rochester Hills, Michigan

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: IVO Prop current limiter Reply with quote

There is no date on your circuit diagram, but my PDF has a file date of June 2010. Time flies when you are having fun Smile

Dennis Glaeser (original requester for this circuit).


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merlewagner2



Joined: 01 Jun 2016
Posts: 18
Location: Spring Hill, FL

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:15 am    Post subject: Re: IVO Prop current limiter Reply with quote

Bob,

When you get the new circuit up I would be very interested in purchasing. Have the Ivo mag prop which will be interfacing with a Viking Turbo 170HP. Should be interesting to see the performance.

Merle


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kfav8r



Joined: 20 May 2012
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Location: Norman, OK

PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: IVO Prop current limiter Reply with quote

I removed the LEDs from the circuit, and added new LEDs directly to the board.

The behavior is the same as before -- with the engine off, the prop and circuit behaved normally. With the engine running, the prop current is shut down almost immediately, though a small bit of pitch change does occur prior to cut-off.


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 5:38 pm    Post subject: IVO Prop current limiter Reply with quote

At 05:36 PM 5/25/2017, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "kfav8r" <kfav8r(at)outlook.com>

I removed the LEDs from the circuit, and added new LEDs directly to the board.

The behavior is the same as before -- with the engine off, the prop and circuit behaved normally. With the engine running, the prop current is shut down almost immediately, though a small bit of pitch change does occur prior to cut-off.

--------
Doug

Need to pray over your observations . . .
it would sure be nice to get some
measurements . . . but I think I'll
have an experiment that will help
burrow down to root cause.



Bob . . .


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enginerdy(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 8:26 pm    Post subject: IVO Prop current limiter Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
with the engine off, the prop and circuit behaved normally. With the engine running, the prop current is shut down almost immediately, though a small bit of pitch change does occur prior to cut-off. -------- Doug



Could this have something to do with the higher system voltage when the engine is running?

—Daniel


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 7:58 am    Post subject: IVO Prop current limiter Reply with quote

At 11:06 PM 5/27/2017, you wrote:

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
with the engine off, the prop and circuit behaved normally. With the engine running, the prop current is shut down almost immediately, though a small bit of pitch change does occur prior to cut-off.

--------
Doug

Could this have something to do with the higher system voltage when the engine is running?

possibly . . . but I think not. The
current limiter is configured to 'latch'
into an OFF state approx 200 mS after
a current limit on the order of 9A is
achieved.

The 'latch' is subject to premature triggering
if subjected to noise which I suspect is coming
from the ship's alternator.


[img]cid:.0[/img]


Doug,

Try tacking this combination of components onto
your assembly. The experiment is to see if adding
a smoothing capacitor to the circuit's power
source will sufficiently attenuate the antagonistic
energies. The 100 uF cap is the 'smoother' while
the 10 ohm resistor mitigates inrush currents impressed
on the circuit when the directional control switch
closes . . .







Bob . . .


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