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Shrike nose
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n395v



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: Shrike nose Reply with quote

It is my impression that an STC requires demonstration and documentation of claims as well as demonstration and documentation of adverse affects of the modification in question.

Below is the link to the flap gap seal page of Aircenters website and an excerpt from that page stating what the flap gap seals will do.

http://www.aircenterinc.com/products_seals.php

WHY? Increases Speed, Rate Of Climb, & Roll Rate
Less Drag
Increase In Fuel Efficiency
Cosmetics

PRICE OF KIT: $1,800
PMA: Yes
STC NO: SA2903SW

The Flap Gap Seals are installed on the top and bottom of the wings. There is a large opening between the flaps and the bottom of the wing. The Flap Gap Seal will seal this opening between the top and bottom of the flaps. When the flaps are in the up position, lifting air pressure can no longer escape through this gap, thus the increased lift improves rate of climb and performance. Our Flap Gap Seal STC is the same type as you find on the Turbo Commanders. The Flap Gap Seals increase overall airspeed by six knots. Installation of the Flap Gap Seals will greatly improve slow speed roll control, resulting in better short field take-off and landing capabilities. Our STC is approved for all 500 and 600 series Twin Commanders. The kit can be installed in two days.

I suppose that "improved short field takeoff capabilities" is open to interpretation but it suggests to me shorter takeoff.
My suspicion is that the amount of increased or decreased takeoff distance is negated by pilot technique in either direction and is a small number when measured in feet so as to make it inconsequential to the original poster of the nose question.
If indeed the seals do increase takeoff distance by a small amount you probably shouldn't be taking off from that field in the first place.

I understand that using the seals the standard technique is to not use flaps. This is immensley beneficial in the event of engine loss at a critical moment in that it is one less item to have to clean up. Thus one could argue that the gap seals add a safety factor.

As the owner of the STC Gary should be able to tell us exactly the Takeoff difference with the seals for each model.
[/url]


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BillLeff1(at)aol.com
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:50 pm    Post subject: Shrike nose Reply with quote

My 560F gets off the ground better since I installed them. I did not see
much speed difference

Bill Leff


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jetprop



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Shrike nose Reply with quote

amg(at)nc.rr.com wrote:
Hello,

Anyone know how much a Shrike nose cost, and who sells and installs them???


Hi - Bruce Byerly here - just wanted to introduce myself. I've been lurking around the board for awhile now -- you guys seem to be having fun Very Happy

I've grown up with Commanders and we have had a fiberglass nose cut from an airframe for years. It's in good shape but will need to be removed from the original structure. It's setup for a radome, but the radome has since found a home. Let me know if you're interested.

309-397-2525


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dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:38 pm    Post subject: Shrike nose Reply with quote

Installation of flap gap seals on my 500 Shrike improved my landings by
100% as it improved the slow speed handling and allowed it to float. I
am now able to reduce my over the numbers speed by 15 mph without
worrying about stalling and flopping down. By being able to slow down
safely I can reduce my ground roll significantly and operate into
shorter fields without burning out my brakes. As far as take off
performance, and this is anecdotal, I feel it comes off the ground
sooner due to improved lift. I cost me $1800.00 for the kit and 32
hours labor but I wouldn't fly without them.

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moe(at)rosspistons.com
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:04 pm    Post subject: Shrike nose Reply with quote

Regarding the Flap Gap Seals,

There is no doubt in my mind that flap gap seals do degrade the distance
before rotation. I can't remember exactly how much (I think that it is
about 75 feet) but if anyone wants to know exactly, I will stop by the plane
and pick up my figures. This comes from taking off and landing at the same
airport (HHR) for several years in the same plane with the conditions being
about the same every day. I had the flap gap seals and winglets added at the
same time. The performance degraded enough that I changed my "you should
rotate at this point" when taking off references.

Regards,

Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
---


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captseth



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 10
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:19 pm    Post subject: Shrike nose Reply with quote

It seems to make sense to me that adding the gap seals
will eliminate any intended or unintended slotted
effect that might exist in the flap design, thereby
reducing runway performance but increasing cruise
performance.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:00 pm    Post subject: Shrike nose Reply with quote

In a message dated 1/17/2006 6:54:13 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
capnspray_611(at)hotmail.com writes:

Pictures of N198JW 50FT. in the
air, 1000FT from start of take-off from my 1900 FT grass strip 800 Ft
Without the gap seals it would have been 150 feet at the same spot;-) jb


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:01 pm    Post subject: Shrike nose Reply with quote

In a message dated 1/17/2006 7:03:26 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
bertberry1(at)aol.com writes:

Maybe the magic doesn't work until you paint them
Never thought of that!! What WAS I thinking????? jb


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:04 pm    Post subject: Shrike nose Reply with quote

In a message dated 1/17/2006 6:05:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:

The performance degraded enough that I changed my "you should
rotate at this point" when taking off references.
That's how it worked in my neighborhood as well. jb


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:16 pm    Post subject: Shrike nose Reply with quote

In a message dated 1/17/2006 5:39:16 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net writes:

As far as take off
performance, and this is anecdotal, I feel it comes off the ground
sooner due to improved lift.
Great opinion. But lets be reasonable here. Without the gap seals, the air
is free to travel up a well thought out slot between the flap and the TE of
the wing. If you look closely, you will see that Ted Smith put a lot of time
into this area of the wing. The air can reattach to the LE of the flap and
creates a much more efficient slow speed wing (look at the flaps on a
Boeing). You simply cannot improve lift by closing this area up. You can, however,
decrease drag. (more lift, more drag, less lift, less drag)
Cover the gap up, and you now have an early twin Cessna flap. There is
less drag, sure, hince the "float". But float does not mean the airplane is
performing better at slow speed, in fact, just the opposite is true.
Look, I fly all kinds of Commanders, all different models, all the time.
I fly them with and without all of these mods, long and short noses, gap
seals etc. I love the gap seals if TO / Landing performance is not an issue.
If it is, better think twice. I am not trying to be a pill here, but this is
aerodynamic fact. jb


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Jerry Sprayberry



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 15
Location: Summerville, GA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:29 am    Post subject: Shrike nose Reply with quote

Good to know that, even though I have painted mine, so I guess the paint is
not the answer. JRS:
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