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Shield wiring

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Michael Wynn

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Location: San Ramon, CA

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:34 am Post subject: Shield wiring

Hi all,

  

 I am upgrading my ELT to a 406 model.  The installation  instructions say to use a shielded wire to the GPS output.  My ELT is  located in the rear (RV8) and the GPS in the front.  Further, it requires  ground and power (about 240 mAh).

  

 I could easily run a 3 wire shielded cable from front to rear, ground at my  firewall forest of tabs and get power from a fuse block directly adjacent.   The question then becomes, how to get the shielded GPS signal from the panel to  the rear.  In terms of shortest wire run, bringing the GPS lead down from  the panel and joining the three wire from the rear at the gear tower would be  best.  If I use a shielded 20 gauge wire from the GPS down to join the  three wire from the rear, I need to figure out how to connect it to the GPS  designated wire in the three wire bundle.  Specifically, how to deal  with the shielding.  Should I ground it all at the firewall and somehow  solder the shields from the three wire and single wire together?  Should  the GPS lead be grounded both at the firewall and at the GPS ground  block?  

  

 I could also run a single shielded wire from the GPS to the ELT, power the  ELT from my battery bus and ground the ELT to the fuselage locally.  That  would mean the ELT is constantly powered (as opposed to switched).  I draws  little power but could conceivably drain a battery over a long period of  time.

  

 Looking for help from the knowledgeable and experienced.

  

 Regards,

  

 Michael Wynn

 RV 8

 Livermore, CA

 [quote][b]

_________________
Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:49 am Post subject: Shield wiring

At 08:33 AM 8/26/2014, you wrote:

 Hi all,

  

 I am upgrading my ELT to a 406 model.  The installation instructions say to use a shielded wire to the GPS output.  My ELT is located in the rear (RV8) and the GPS in the front.  Further, it requires ground and power (about 240 mAh).

  

 I could easily run a 3 wire shielded cable from front to rear, ground at my firewall forest of tabs and get power from a fuse block directly adjacent.  The question then becomes, how to get the shielded GPS signal from the panel to the rear.  In terms of shortest wire run, bringing the GPS lead down from the panel and joining the three wire from the rear at the gear tower would be best.



 What make/model is the ELT? Are there down-loadable

 documents we can review?



  The ELT is not a candidate for grounding on the firewall forest of tabs (POWER STUFF). This is a piece of avionics. First, when the ELT is mounted in the airplane, is there any continuity between the power(-) wire that runs forward and ship's ground? I would hope not but it doesn't hurt to check.  I would plan on grounding this article at the avionics ground on the panel.



   [img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20140826113749.04d509a8(at)aeroelectric.com.0[/img] [/b]



 If I use a shielded 20 gauge wire from the GPS down to join the three wire from the rear, I need to figure out how to connect it to the GPS designated wire in the three wire bundle.  Specifically, how to deal with the shielding.  Should I ground it all at the firewall and somehow solder the shields from the three wire and single wire together?  Should the GPS lead be grounded both at the firewall and at the GPS ground block? 

  

 I could also run a single shielded wire from the GPS to the ELT, power the ELT from my battery bus and ground the ELT to the fuselage locally.  That would mean the ELT is constantly powered (as opposed to switched).  I draws little power but could conceivably drain a battery over a long period of time.

  

 Looking for help from the knowledgeable and experienced.



  We REALLY need to see the installation documents before useful recommendations can be crafted.





    Bob . . .

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Michael Wynn

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Location: San Ramon, CA

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:55 am Post subject: Shield wiring

Hi Bob,

  

 As usual, I appreciate your insights.  Looks like this is a little  more involved than I had originally thought.  

  

 My avionics ground is a thirty-seven pin Sub D that I think I got from your  site.  Five wires go from it to the forest of tabs on the  firewall.  All the avionics ground into this.  The pins are all used  so I may have to piggyback into a previously used pin. 

  

 The ELT is an ACK E-04.  The installation manual is here:

 http://www.ackavionics.com/pdf/E-04_REV_1.7_SINGLE_PAGE_REDUCED.pdf

  

 I re-read the installation instructions and they really don't specify much  about power or grounding.  The only specification is "cockpit power" and  "cockpit ground".

  

 I would much appreciate your advice on proper installation.

  

 Regards,

  

 Michael Wynn

 RV 8

 Livermore

  

  In a message dated 8/26/2014 10:59:49 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  At 08:33    AM 8/26/2014, you wrote:

Hi all,

 

I am upgrading my ELT to a    406 model.  The installation instructions say to use a shielded wire to    the GPS output.  My ELT is located in the rear (RV8) and the GPS in the    front.  Further, it requires ground and power (about 240    mAh).

 

I could easily run a 3 wire shielded cable from front to    rear, ground at my firewall forest of tabs and get power from a fuse block    directly adjacent.  The question then becomes, how to get the shielded    GPS signal from the panel to the rear.  In terms of shortest wire run,    bringing the GPS lead down from the panel and joining the three wire from the    rear at the gear tower would be best.



What make/model is the ELT? Are    there down-loadable

documents we can review?



        The ELT is not a candidate for grounding on the firewall      forest of tabs (POWER STUFF). This is a piece of avionics.      First, when the ELT is mounted in the airplane, is there      any continuity between the power(-) wire that runs forward      and ship's ground? I would hope not but it doesn't hurt to      check.  I would plan on grounding this article at the      avionics ground on the panel.



      [/b]



If I use a shielded 20 gauge wire    from the GPS down to join the three wire from the rear, I need to figure out    how to connect it to the GPS designated wire in the three wire bundle.     Specifically, how to deal with the shielding.  Should I ground it all at    the firewall and somehow solder the shields from the three wire and single    wire together?  Should the GPS lead be grounded both at the firewall and    at the GPS ground block? 

 

I could also run a single shielded wire    from the GPS to the ELT, power the ELT from my battery bus and ground the ELT    to the fuselage locally.  That would mean the ELT is constantly powered    (as opposed to switched).  I draws little power but could conceivably    drain a battery over a long period of time.

 

Looking for help from    the knowledgeable and experienced.



        We REALLY need to see the installation documents      before useful recommendations can be crafted.



     

  Bob . . .

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_________________
Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:58 pm Post subject: Shield wiring

At 02:48 PM 8/26/2014, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   Hi Bob,

  

 As usual, I appreciate your insights.  Looks like this is a little more involved than I had originally thought.  

  

 My avionics ground is a thirty-seven pin Sub D that I think I got from your site.  Five wires go from it to the forest of tabs on the firewall.  All the avionics ground into this.  The pins are all used so I may have to piggyback into a previously used pin. 

  

 The ELT is an ACK E-04.  The installation manual is here:

  http://www.ackavionics.com/pdf/E-04_REV_1.7_SINGLE_PAGE_REDUCED.pdf 	


    Man! This is a pretty sorry manual considering all the

    $time$ that somebody spent putting it together. There's

    lots of data, probably accurate for the most part, but

    horribly organized and formatted. On page 15 we find

    this statement.



 [img]cid:.0[/img]



    The IMPORTANT item is 26 MICROAMPS standby current. This

    means that lead is best fed from ship's battery bus. It

    also says 1.4A average for 406 burst mode which has to be

    bogus. It's got to be 1.4 amps for DURATION OF BURST with

    something much lower between bursts. What's notably missing

    is the ENERGY loading on this wire . . . which presumes that

    the ELT's internal battery is depleted. Elsewhere we see

    a "40 mA" tag on that wire . . . which may be the current

    draw between bursts.



    The RS232 "SEND TEST LINE" appears to be used only as

    a LED driver to register acknowledgement of a GPS data

    string on the "RECEIVE" line. I'd wire a resistor/LED into the

    system permanently as opposed to the temporary jig

    illustrated. This would function much as the REPLY

    light on a transponder . . . a general tell-tale on the

    systems operational state.



    The power(-) lead should go to your avionics ground



    Power(+) to the battery bus . . . use a 3A fuse.



    RS232 RECEIVE connects to the RS232 SEND line

        of your GPS receiver.



 

   Bob . . .

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Michael Wynn

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Location: San Ramon, CA

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:27 pm Post subject: Shield wiring

Thanks Bob,

  

 You are the best.

  

 Regards,

  

 Michael Wynn

 RV 8

 Livermore, CA

  

  In a message dated 8/26/2014 1:59:33 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  [img]res://C:\PROGRA~2\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking12\Program\web_ie.dll/QMARK.GIF[/img][img]res://C:\PROGRA~2\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking12\Program\web_ie.dll/ARROW.GIF[/img]At    02:48 PM 8/26/2014, you wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Bob,

 

As usual, I appreciate your      insights.  Looks like this is a little more involved than I had      originally thought.  

 

My avionics ground is a thirty-seven      pin Sub D that I think I got from your site.  Five wires go from it to      the forest of tabs on the firewall.  All the avionics ground into      this.  The pins are all used so I may have to piggyback into a      previously used pin. 

 

The ELT is an ACK E-04.  The      installation manual is here:

http://www.ackavionics.com/pdf/E-04_REV_1.7_SINGLE_PAGE_REDUCED.pdf      	


   Man! This is a pretty sorry manual    considering all the

   $time$ that somebody spent putting it    together. There's

   lots of data, probably accurate for the most    part, but

   horribly organized and formatted. On page 15 we    find

   this statement.



   The    IMPORTANT item is 26 MICROAMPS standby current. This

   means    that lead is best fed from ship's battery bus. It

   also says    1.4A average for 406 burst mode which has to be

   bogus. It's    got to be 1.4 amps for DURATION OF BURST with

   something much    lower between bursts. What's notably missing

   is the ENERGY    loading on this wire . . . which presumes that

   the ELT's    internal battery is depleted. Elsewhere we see

   a "40 mA" tag    on that wire . . . which may be the current

   draw between    bursts.



   The RS232 "SEND TEST LINE" appears to be used only    as

   a LED driver to register acknowledgement of a GPS    data

   string on the "RECEIVE" line. I'd wire a resistor/LED    into the

   system permanently as opposed to the temporary    jig

   illustrated. This would function much as the    REPLY

   light on a transponder . . . a general tell-tale on    the

   systems operational state.



   The    power(-) lead should go to your avionics ground



   Power(+)    to the battery bus . . . use a 3A fuse.



   RS232 RECEIVE    connects to the RS232 SEND line

       of    your GPS receiver.



   

  Bob . . .

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45.59 KB

Viewed:

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_________________
Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA

kleh(at)dialupatcost.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:41 pm Post subject: Shield wiring

Quoted from below

"Power(+) to the battery bus . . . use a 3A fuse."



I don't think you want the power to this ELT wired to the battery bus. 

The recommended 3 month test requires the power to the ELT to be off. We 

used to get emails from SAR in Canada confirming satellite reception for 

those 3 month tests but I'm always careful to make sure my master (power 

to the ELT) is off when I test.



I picked this ELT specifically because it uses aircraft power to 

pre-process gps position and have the position instantly available if 

the unit is activated. It is news to me if aircraft power is also 

available to supplement battery power for transmissions.



Ken



On 26/08/2014 4:57 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   At 02:48 PM 8/26/2014, you wrote:

> Hi Bob,

>

> As usual, I appreciate your insights.  Looks like this is a little

> more involved than I had originally thought.

>

> My avionics ground is a thirty-seven pin Sub D that I think I got from

> your site.  Five wires go from it to the forest of tabs on the

> firewall.  All the avionics ground into this.  The pins are all used

> so I may have to piggyback into a previously used pin.

>

> The ELT is an ACK E-04.  The installation manual is here:

> http://www.ackavionics.com/pdf/E-04_REV_1.7_SINGLE_PAGE_REDUCED.pdf



     Man! This is a pretty sorry manual considering all the

     $time$ that somebody spent putting it together. There's

     lots of data, probably accurate for the most part, but

     horribly organized and formatted. On page 15 we find

     this statement.



 Emacs!



     The IMPORTANT item is 26 MICROAMPS standby current. This

     means that lead is best fed from ship's battery bus. It

     also says 1.4A average for 406 burst mode which has to be

     bogus. It's got to be 1.4 amps for DURATION OF BURST with

     something much lower between bursts. What's notably missing

     is the ENERGY loading on this wire . . . which presumes that

     the ELT's internal battery is depleted. Elsewhere we see

     a "40 mA" tag on that wire . . . which may be the current

     draw between bursts.



     The RS232 "SEND TEST LINE" appears to be used only as

     a LED driver to register acknowledgement of a GPS data

     string on the "RECEIVE" line. I'd wire a resistor/LED into the

     system permanently as opposed to the temporary jig

     illustrated. This would function much as the REPLY

     light on a transponder . . . a general tell-tale on the

     systems operational state.



     The power(-) lead should go to your avionics ground



     Power(+) to the battery bus . . . use a 3A fuse.



     RS232 RECEIVE connects to the RS232 SEND line

         of your GPS receiver.



    Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:30 am Post subject: Shield wiring

At 05:40 PM 8/26/2014, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Quoted from below

"Power(+) to the battery bus . . . use a 3A fuse."



I don't think you want the power to this ELT wired to the battery 

bus. The recommended 3 month test requires the power to the ELT to 

be off. We used to get emails from SAR in Canada confirming 

satellite reception for those 3 month tests but I'm always careful 

to make sure my master (power to the ELT) is off when I test.



I picked this ELT specifically because it uses aircraft power to 

pre-process gps position and have the position instantly available 

if the unit is activated. It is news to me if aircraft power is also 

available to supplement battery power for transmissions.


	


     I'll ask ACK . . .

   Bob . . .

Michael Wynn

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Location: San Ramon, CA

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:40 am Post subject: Shield wiring

Hi All,

  

 Over the long weekend I got the ELT mounted, the remote mounted, the phone  cable in.  The really hard part was 

  

  In a message dated 8/27/2014 8:31:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"    <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>



At 05:40 PM 8/26/2014, you    wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken    <kleh(at)dialupatcost.ca>



Quoted from below

"Power(+)    to the battery bus . . . use a 3A fuse."



I don't think you want    the power to this ELT wired to the battery 

bus. The recommended 3    month test requires the power to the ELT to 

be off. We used to get    emails from SAR in Canada confirming 

satellite reception for those 3    month tests but I'm always careful 

to make sure my master (power to    the ELT) is off when I test.



I picked this ELT specifically    because it uses aircraft power to 

pre-process gps position and have    the position instantly available 

if the unit is activated. It is news    to me if aircraft power is also 

available to supplement battery power    for transmissions.


	


     I'll ask ACK . .    .

   Bob . . .  ========================= Use   utilities  Day  ================================================               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  ================================================             - List Contribution Web Site  sp;                             ===================================================



	


 [quote][b]

_________________
Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA

Michael Wynn

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Location: San Ramon, CA

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:53 am Post subject: Shield wiring

Lets try that again.  For unknown reasons, my computer occasionally  sends mail prematurely.

  

 Anyway, I got the ELT mounted, phone line in.  The difficult part was  fishing the three wire conductor from one end of the aircraft to the  other.  I have the ELT power, ground and GPS feed set up in this  cable.  It currently ends in the right gear tower.  I have a fused  power feed from a fuse block and a ground wire from my avionics ground  bus.

  

 Unfortunately, I miscalculated the length and am about two feet short on  the three conductor getting to the back of the GPS.  I have a single  shielded wire which I planned to bring down from the GPS, terminating all  together at the gear tower.

  

 If I connect (solder) both shields and the ELT ground lead  together and ground all of that to the avionics ground bus, will that do the  trick?  I did not ground the shield at the ELT end nor would I ground the  shield at the GPS end.

  

 The GPS is a Garmin GTN 650.  Steinair, who wired my panel, has four  feeds coming from a single feed (pin .  They suggested that I tap into  this for the GPS feed.  Two of the feeds go into Grand Rapids PFD and  MFD.  It would be a lot easier to tap into the circuit where they enter  those units than into the GPS where there is already a four into one  joint.  I can't see that it makes any electrical different which end of the  wire I join into.  Am I missing anything here?

  

 Thanks,

  

 Michael Wynn

 RV 8 

 Livermore, CA

  

  In a message dated 8/27/2014 8:31:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"    <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>



At 05:40 PM 8/26/2014, you    wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken    <kleh(at)dialupatcost.ca>



Quoted from below

"Power(+)    to the battery bus . . . use a 3A fuse."



I don't think you want    the power to this ELT wired to the battery 

bus. The recommended 3    month test requires the power to the ELT to 

be off. We used to get    emails from SAR in Canada confirming 

satellite reception for those 3    month tests but I'm always careful 

to make sure my master (power to    the ELT) is off when I test.



I picked this ELT specifically    because it uses aircraft power to 

pre-process gps position and have    the position instantly available 

if the unit is activated. It is news    to me if aircraft power is also 

available to supplement battery power    for transmissions.


	


     I'll ask ACK . .    .

   Bob . . .  ========================= Use   utilities  Day  ================================================               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  ================================================             - List Contribution Web Site  sp;                             ===================================================



	


 [quote][b]

_________________
Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:44 am Post subject: Shield wiring

At 08:52 AM 9/2/2014, you wrote:

Lets try that again.  For unknown reasons, my computer occasionally 

sends mail prematurely.



   Mine too . . . but I think it's because my tongue

   is covering my eyeteeth and I can't see what I'm

   typing . ..

Anyway, I got the ELT mounted, phone line in.  The difficult part was 

fishing the three wire conductor from one end of the aircraft to the 

other.  I have the ELT power, ground and GPS feed set up in this 

cable.  It currently ends in the right gear tower.  I have a fused 

power feed from a fuse block and a ground wire from my avionics ground bus.

Unfortunately, I miscalculated the length and am about two feet short 

on the three conductor getting to the back of the GPS.  I have a 

single shielded wire which I planned to bring down from the GPS, 

terminating all together at the gear tower.



If I connect (solder) both shields and the ELT ground lead together 

and ground all of that to the avionics ground bus, will that do the 

trick?  I did not ground the shield at the ELT end nor would I ground 

the shield at the GPS end.



   Normally, a shielded wire carrying DATA is grounded

   at both ends . . . and the shield is part of the signal

   path. I am disappointed in ACK's installation instructions.

   For as long as they've been in the business I would have

   hoped the quality of their design and accompanying

   instructions would have matured.



   I'm adrift for crafting a rationale for doing any

   particular thing with the shields . . . it would

   be USEFUL to have some means by which signal

   integrity to the ELT could be verified. The manual

   speaks to tying an LED onto the ELT data transmit

   line to see if it 'flashes' in response to 1 second

   updates from the panel GPS. But the significance of

   that flash is not known. Does it NOT flash if there

   is some degradation of signal quality . . . checksum

   bad, framing bad????



   Given that so much FAITH is being placed on this

   piece of equipment to guide searchers to your remains,

   it would really be nice if their design included

   some means for demonstrating integrity as opposed

   to guessing.



   As I said . . . their instructions suck . . .



The GPS is a Garmin GTN 650.  Steinair, who wired my panel, has four 

feeds coming from a single feed (pin .  They suggested that I tap 

into this for the GPS feed.  Two of the feeds go into Grand Rapids 

PFD and MFD.  It would be a lot easier to tap into the circuit where 

they enter those units than into the GPS where there is already a 

four into one joint.  I can't see that it makes any electrical 

different which end of the wire I join into.  Am I missing anything here?



   Talk to Steinair about this. I'm not privy to the rationale

   for offering all these 'pigtails'. It's a mystery to me

   but they would be the one to explain their intentions.



   By the way, I did talk to ACK about the recommended power

   source for the E04. If you have a 'commericial' version

   (E04C) then power needs to come from a battery bus. If

   the plain vanilla version for little-guys, the power

   should come from a switched bus. Another little

   'gotcha' in their instructions.



   Sorry I can't be more help . . .



   Bob . . .

Michael Wynn

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Location: San Ramon, CA

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:03 pm Post subject: Shield wiring

I will wire it up as it looks simplest.  I have the grounding and  switched power set up.  Once I connect the single, I will give it a test  and report back.

  

 Thanks,

  

 Michael Wynn

  

  In a message dated 9/4/2014 8:46:17 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"    <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>



At 08:52 AM 9/2/2014, you    wrote:

Lets try that again.  For unknown reasons, my computer    occasionally 

sends mail prematurely.



   Mine too . . .    but I think it's because my tongue

   is covering my eyeteeth and    I can't see what I'm

   typing . ..

Anyway, I got the    ELT mounted, phone line in.  The difficult part was 

fishing the three    wire conductor from one end of the aircraft to the 

other.  I have the    ELT power, ground and GPS feed set up in this 

cable.  It currently    ends in the right gear tower.  I have a fused 

power feed from a fuse    block and a ground wire from my avionics ground bus.

Unfortunately,    I miscalculated the length and am about two feet short 

on the three    conductor getting to the back of the GPS.  I have a 

single shielded    wire which I planned to bring down from the GPS, 

terminating all together    at the gear tower.



If I connect (solder) both shields and the ELT    ground lead together 

and ground all of that to the avionics ground bus,    will that do the 

trick?  I did not ground the shield at the ELT end    nor would I ground 

the shield at the GPS end.



      Normally, a shielded wire carrying DATA is grounded

   at both    ends . . . and the shield is part of the signal

   path. I am    disappointed in ACK's installation instructions.

   For as long    as they've been in the business I would have

   hoped the quality    of their design and accompanying

   instructions would have    matured.



   I'm adrift for crafting a rationale for doing    any

   particular thing with the shields . . . it    would

   be USEFUL to have some means by which    signal

   integrity to the ELT could be verified. The    manual

   speaks to tying an LED onto the ELT data    transmit

   line to see if it 'flashes' in response to 1    second

   updates from the panel GPS. But the significance    of

   that flash is not known. Does it NOT flash if    there

   is some degradation of signal quality . . .    checksum

   bad, framing bad????



   Given that    so much FAITH is being placed on this

   piece of equipment to    guide searchers to your remains,

   it would really be nice if    their design included

   some means for demonstrating integrity    as opposed

   to guessing.



   As I said . . .    their instructions suck . . .



The GPS is a Garmin GTN 650.     Steinair, who wired my panel, has four 

feeds coming from a single feed    (pin .  They suggested that I tap 

into this for the GPS feed.     Two of the feeds go into Grand Rapids 

PFD and MFD.  It would be a lot    easier to tap into the circuit where 

they enter those units than into the    GPS where there is already a 

four into one joint.  I can't see that    it makes any electrical 

different which end of the wire I join into.     Am I missing anything here?



   Talk to Steinair about this.    I'm not privy to the rationale

   for offering all these    'pigtails'. It's a mystery to me

   but they would be the one to    explain their intentions.



   By the way, I did talk to ACK    about the recommended power

   source for the E04. If you have a    'commericial' version

   (E04C) then power needs to come from a    battery bus. If

   the plain vanilla version for little-guys, the    power

   should come from a switched bus. Another    little

   'gotcha' in their instructions.



      Sorry I can't be more help . . .



   Bob . . .  ========================= Use   utilities  Day  ================================================               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  ================================================             - List Contribution Web Site  sp;                             ===================================================



	


 [quote][b]

_________________
Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:02 pm Post subject: Shield wiring

At 04:01 PM 9/4/2014, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   I will wire it up as it looks simplest.  I have the grounding and switched power set up.  Once I connect the single, I will give it a test and report back.

  

 Thanks,

  

 Michael Wynn 	


    The 64-dollar question is how do you test it?

    Without a receiver fitted with a feature that

    resolves and displays the GPS location data being

    transmitted by the ELT, how do you know that

    the communications channel GPS->ELT is good?



    I suppose avionics shops have that capability

    these days. Does anyone on the List have

    knowledge of this?



    I wonder if Steinair hot-checks their pre-wired

    panels.



    Bob . . .



  	  Quote: 	
		    

 In a message dated 9/4/2014 8:46:17 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com writes:

   --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>



  At 08:52 AM 9/2/2014, you wrote:

  Lets try that again.  For unknown reasons, my computer occasionally 

  sends mail prematurely.



     Mine too . . . but I think it's because my tongue

     is covering my eyeteeth and I can't see what I'm

     typing . ..



 

  Anyway, I got the ELT mounted, phone line in.  The difficult part was 

  fishing the three wire conductor from one end of the aircraft to the 

  other.  I have the ELT power, ground and GPS feed set up in this 

  cable.  It currently ends in the right gear tower.  I have a fused 

  power feed from a fuse block and a ground wire from my avionics ground bus.



 

  Unfortunately, I miscalculated the length and am about two feet short 

  on the three conductor getting to the back of the GPS.  I have a 

  single shielded wire which I planned to bring down from the GPS, 

  terminating all together at the gear tower.



  If I connect (solder) both shields and the ELT ground lead together 

  and ground all of that to the avionics ground bus, will that do the 

  trick?  I did not ground the shield at the ELT end nor would I ground 

  the shield at the GPS end.



     Normally, a shielded wire carrying DATA is grounded

     at both ends . . . and the shield is part of the signal

     path. I am disappointed in ACK's installation instructions.

     For as long as they've been in the business I would have

     hoped the quality of their design and accompanying

     instructions would have matured.



     I'm adrift for crafting a rationale for doing any

     particular thing with the shields . . . it would

     be USEFUL to have some means by which signal

     integrity to the ELT could be verified. The manual

     speaks to tying an LED onto the ELT data transmit

     line to see if it 'flashes' in response to 1 second

     updates from the panel GPS. But the significance of

     that flash is not known. Does it NOT flash if there

     is some degradation of signal quality . . . checksum

     bad, framing bad????



     Given that so much FAITH is being placed on this

     piece of equipment to guide searchers to your remains,

     it would really be nice if their design included

     some means for demonstrating integrity as opposed

     to guessing.



     As I said . . . their instructions suck . . .



  The GPS is a Garmin GTN 650.  Steinair, who wired my panel, has four 

  feeds coming from a single feed (pin .  They suggested that I tap 

  into this for the GPS feed.  Two of the feeds go into Grand Rapids 

  PFD and MFD.  It would be a lot easier to tap into the circuit where 

  they enter those units than into the GPS where there is already a 

  four into one joint.  I can't see that it makes any electrical 

  different which end of the wire I join into.  Am I missing anything here?



     Talk to Steinair about this. I'm not privy to the rationale

     for offering all these 'pigtails'. It's a mystery to me

     but they would be the one to explain their intentions.



     By the way, I did talk to ACK about the recommended power

     source for the E04. If you have a 'commericial' version

     (E04C) then power needs to come from a battery bus. If

     the plain vanilla version for little-guys, the power

     should come from a switched bus. Another little

     'gotcha' in their instructions.



     Sorry I can't be more help . . 	
 

  

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

jmjones2000(at)mindspring
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:50 pm Post subject: Shield wiring

www.406Test.com 

You pay a sign up fee and a beacon fee. The cost is $30 each.

You log into the website and schedule a test the of beacon. You have 48 hours to test it. 

The beacon must be registered.



You must test it with a clear view of the southern sky. 

You will receive an SMS text message confirming your test. 

I'm unsure if it will give you a set of coordinates telling you where your beacon is or if it just says test successful. You may be able to find out on the website. 

 

The specific question on weather or not the connectivity between your elt and GPS is working or not will probably need to be answered by an avionics shop with expensive test equipment. However you may get exact coordinates from the test website above. If you do, and they match within a few yards, it may be safe to assume the connection is working. 

Side note: I had to put my garmin 430w into a programming mode to tell it what devices are connected to the rs232 and serial ports. There is a website telling you how to enter this programming mode. It was simple. Just hold down a button or combination of buttons during power application. 

Hope this helps

Justin



On Sep 4, 2014, at 15:01, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

[quote]  At 04:01 PM 9/4/2014, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   I will wire it up as it looks simplest.  I have the grounding and switched power set up.  Once I connect the single, I will give it a test and report back.

  

 Thanks,

  

 Michael Wynn 	


    The 64-dollar question is how do you test it?

    Without a receiver fitted with a feature that

    resolves and displays the GPS location data being

    transmitted by the ELT, how do you know that

    the communications channel GPS->ELT is good?



    I suppose avionics shops have that capability

    these days. Does anyone on the List have

    knowledge of this?



    I wonder if Steinair hot-checks their pre-wired

    panels.



    Bob . . .



  	  Quote: 	
		    

 In a message dated 9/4/2014 8:46:17 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com) writes:

   --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>



  At 08:52 AM 9/2/2014, you wrote:

  Lets try that again.  For unknown reasons, my computer occasionally 

  sends mail prematurely.



     Mine too . . . but I think it's because my tongue

     is covering my eyeteeth and I can't see what I'm

     typing . ..



 

  Anyway, I got the ELT mounted, phone line in.  The difficult part was 

  fishing the three wire conductor from one end of the aircraft to the 

  other.  I have the ELT power, ground and GPS feed set up in this 

  cable.  It currently ends in the right gear tower.  I have a fused 

  power feed from a fuse block and a ground wire from my avionics ground bus.



 

  Unfortunately, I miscalculated the length and am about two feet short 

  on the three conductor getting to the back of the GPS.  I have a 

  single shielded wire which I planned to bring down from the GPS, 

  terminating all together at the gear tower.



  If I connect (solder) both shields and the ELT ground lead together 

  and ground all of that to the avionics ground bus, will that do the 

  trick?  I did not ground the shield at the ELT end nor would I ground 

  the shield at the GPS end.



     Normally, a shielded wire carrying DATA is grounded

     at both ends . . . and the shield is part of the signal

     path. I am disappointed in ACK's installation instructions.

     For as long as they've been in the business I would have

     hoped the quality of their design and accompanying

     instructions would have matured.



     I'm adrift for crafting a rationale for doing any

     particular thing with the shields . . . it would

     be USEFUL to have some means by which signal

     integrity to the ELT could be verified. The manual

     speaks to tying an LED onto the ELT data transmit

     line to see if it 'flashes' in response to 1 second

     updates from the panel GPS. But the significance of

     that flash is not known. Does it NOT flash if there

     is some degradation of signal quality . . . checksum

     bad, framing bad????



     Given that so much FAITH is being placed on this

     piece of equipment to guide searchers to your remains,

     it would really be nice if their design included

     some means for demonstrating integrity as opposed

     to guessing.



     As I said . . . their instructions suck . . .



  The GPS is a Garmin GTN 650.  Steinair, who wired my panel, has four 

  feeds coming from a single feed (pin .  They suggested that I tap 

  into this for the GPS feed.  Two of the feeds go into Grand Rapids 

  PFD and MFD.  It would be a lot easier to tap into the circuit where 

  they enter those units than into the GPS where there is already a 

  four into one joint.  I can't see that it makes any electrical 

  different which end of the wire I join into.  Am I missing anything here?



     Talk to Steinair about this. I'm not privy to the rationale

     for offering all these 'pigtails'. It's a mystery to me

     but they would be the one to explain their intentions.



     By the way, I did talk to ACK about the recommended power

     source for the E04. If you have a 'commericial' version

     (E04C) then power needs to come from a battery bus. If

     the plain vanilla version for little-guys, the power

     should come from a switched bus. Another little

     'gotcha' in their instructions.



     Sorry I can't be more help . . 	
 

  

   Bob . . .     	  Quote: 	
		  



===================================

st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

===================================

cs.com

===================================

matronics.com/contribution

===================================



	


[b]

glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:03 am Post subject: Shield wiring

What I did was putting my computer with a serial interface behind and 

watched the data stream coming (on putty, it's NMEA 183) so I could see, 

that the data was valid, if the ACK ELT can handle it correctly is 

another question and I could not find out. Do not forget as well to have 

the correct baud rate selected via the jumper inside!



Cheers



Werner



On 05.09.2014 01:01, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		       The 64-dollar question is how do you test it?

     Without a receiver fitted with a feature that

     resolves and displays the GPS location data being

     transmitted by the ELT, how do you know that

     the communications channel GPS->ELT is good?

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:25 am Post subject: Shield wiring

At 06:49 PM 9/4/2014, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   www.406Test.com 



 You pay a sign up fee and a beacon fee. The cost is $30 each.



 You log into the website and schedule a test the of beacon. You have 48 hours to test it. 



 The beacon must be registered.



 You must test it with a clear view of the southern sky. 



 You will receive an SMS text message confirming your test. 	


    Cool! Thanks for the heads-up.  I've been unhooked from

    the avionics side of the house for too long. The technology

    is running over the horizon in front of me.



 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

berkut13(at)berkut13.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:58 pm Post subject: Shield wiring

..and know that the unit does not come with a jumper to use!  I robbed one 

from an old computer hard drive for an ACK unit on another Berkut I'm 

working on.

-James

Berkut/Race 13

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